Is a C&R License worth a darn in NJ?

[Kaiser7 33]

I'm guessing not, but I just read about them, and for the type of firearms I'm interested in, I figured it would be useful to have. Now I'm assuming that the whole FID thing renders a C&R license moot, but figured I'd ask more about it, especially since I do want to someday move to PA.

[ogfarmer 138]

nope! means nothing in NJ

[Kaiser7 33]

nope! means nothing in NJ

Sort of figured. I never heard of it before today, so I was shocked no one brought it up on here today.

 

Guess I know why :/

[MedicYeti 96]

No. Not worth anything in NJ.

[JT Custom Guns 958]

C&R lic is for those who wish to deal soley in antique & collectible firearms.

NJ does not recognize a C&R lic as valid so it would not benefit you to apply for

one.

 

Why? Are you thinking of becoming a dealer?

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358]

Brownell's and Midway discount. That's about it.

[mikeyjones 88]

Brownell's and Midway discount. That's about it.

This.

 

It's a pretty significant discount from what I hear. I'm still debating getting one.

[Kaiser7 33]

This.

 

It's a pretty significant discount from what I hear. I'm still debating getting one.

 

 

From what I'm reading, a C&R costs $30, and a lot of sites provide a very good discount. Not to mention a C&R is good for 3 years. But I've seen discounts ranging from $30-$100 in the very brief browsing I did.

 

The other advantage seems to be that in free states some guns (MAS36, MAS49/56, Mosin, Nagant Revolver, etc.) can be shipped directly to one's door.

[mikeyjones 88]

Right but you have to get cleo to sign off on it so I'm not sure it's worth the hassle.

 

ETA: I thought I recalled that from doing my research a few years back. However, looking over the application again, it just says that it's going to be sent to your CLEO.

[Kaiser7 33]

Right but you have to get cleo to sign off on it so I'm not sure it's worth the hassle.

CLEO? What's that? I assume LEO is law enforcement officer.

[mikeyjones 88]

Chief of law enforcement.

[kman 56]

Technically couldn't you use it to acquire c&r handguns while out of state? Since nj's permit to purchase requirement would not apply outside of its borders?

 

Normally you could not do this since handguns must be bought in your state of residence, but with a c&r permit you can for instance buy from a dealer over the counter in another state. That would include c&r eligible handguns, right?

 

From what I hear the atf won't issue a c&r to nj residents. Even though it is mentioned in the one firearm a month law passed by nj as an exception and therefore presumably recognized as something a nj resident could have.

 

Does anyone here even have a c&r license?

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[BlueLineFish 615]

I will say no as its been pointed out numerous times in the past.

[mikeyjones 88]

Technically couldn't you use it to acquire c&r handguns while out of state? Since nj's permit to purchase requirement would not apply outside of its borders?

 

Normally you could not do this since handguns must be bought in your state of residence, but with a c&r permit you can for instance buy from a dealer over the counter in another state. That would include c&r eligible handguns, right?

 

From what I hear the atf won't issue a c&r to nj residents. Even though it is mentioned in the one firearm a month law passed by nj as an exception and therefore presumably recognized as something a nj resident could have.

 

Does anyone here even have a c&r license?

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

They will issue to NJ residents but some people seem to think that NJSP will deem it invalid.  Btw, I stand corrected on the above comment I made.  A copy gets sent to your local CLEO but I don't see anywhere where he has to sign off on anything.  

 

There's a guy in this thread that has one: http://www.newjerseyhunter.com/forums/77-nj-firearms-id-card-gun-permits/149064-there-any-point-having-c-r-license-new-jersey-2.html

[Kaiser7 33]

I will say no as its been pointed out numerous times in the past.

 

 

Maybe it has, but I was completely unfamiliar with the concept. It's pretty cool if you ask me, at least, if you lived in a free state. I'm surprised I never heard of anyone ask about it before.

[PK90 3,573]

There are currently 185 C&R Licensees in NJ.  I know at least 4 myself. 

 

A C&R may acquire any C&R firearm in another state.  They will have to go through an FFL in NJ for handguns acquired while in NJ.  Discounts are offered through many sources.

[mikeyjones 88]

There are currently 185 C&R Licensees in NJ.  I know at least 4 myself. 

 

A C&R may acquire any C&R firearm in another state.  They will have to go through an FFL in NJ for handguns acquired while in NJ.  Discounts are offered through many sources.

 

Can you shed light on the app process? I keep seeing a lot of conflicting info on the interwebs.  I really do want to apply but if it requires getting PD involvement then that might be a deterrent for me. 

[henrym 19]

This.

 

It's a pretty significant discount from what I hear. I'm still debating getting one.

 

 

Thats false. Its between about 3 and 5% depending on the item.

[Fishpaw 17]

The One Gun a Month law says there is an exception for licensed collectors, and a C&R is a collectors license and should fulfill this purpose. , however they still wont accept a C&R in NJ for this use. It even mentions a C&R license, but from what Ive heard, they still make you apply and fill out a form to get the exception saying that NJ doesnt accept C&R. Maybe this is something that should be looked into as a legal way to get around OGAM, even if its just for C&R guns?

 

(7)   A dealer shall not knowingly deliver more than one handgun to any person within any 30-day period.  This limitation shall not apply to:

    

     (b)   a collector of handguns as curios or relics as defined in Title 18, United States Code, section 921 (a) (13) who has in his possession a valid Collector of Curios and Relics License issued by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives;

[Iggyort 44]

I have used my C&R Lic. to buy multiple pistols but how often do you have the funds to buy multiple worthwhile guns.

 

If you have a collection of firearms, that Lic. is a $30 insurance policy to prove that you are not stockpiling guns but are in deed a federally recognized collector.

 

Just remember, you are now inviting "The Man" into your life.

[carguy3j 0]

The One Gun a Month law says there is an exception for licensed collectors, and a C&R is a collectors license and should fulfill this purpose. , however they still wont accept a C&R in NJ for this use. It even mentions a C&R license, but from what Ive heard, they still make you apply and fill out a form to get the exception saying that NJ doesnt accept C&R. Maybe this is something that should be looked into as a legal way to get around OGAM, even if its just for C&R guns?

 

(7)   A dealer shall not knowingly deliver more than one handgun to any person within any 30-day period.  This limitation shall not apply to:

    

     (b)   a collector of handguns as curios or relics as defined in Title 18, United States Code, section 921 (a) (13) who has in his possession a valid Collector of Curios and Relics License issued by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives;

How can "they" make you fill out the form? I can see if you are buying multiple guns from 1 dealer, they may refuse the sale, improperly. But, if you buy 1 gun from dealer A., then buy gun 2 from dealer B, in less then 30 days, and the NJSP call or show up to "point out the errors in your ways", you show them your valid FFL C&R, then cite the specific law above, informing them that you are "a collector of handguns as curios or relics as defined in Title 18, United States Code, section 921 (a) (13) who has in his possession a valid Collector of Curios and Relics License issued by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives;"    as per NJ law, and are therefor exempt from the OGAM requirements.

If they lay a finger on you, sue them, and press charges for false arrest, and related violations/crimes. This isn't an area where they should get any "leeway" for having a reasonable belief, blah, blah, blah. There is nothing open to interpretation. Its plain as day, spelled out in black and white right in the law. I suppose one could have a letter from your attorney prepared, laying out the causes/grounds for the legal/civil actions you could/would take against them should they proceed any further. While you saying it to them mid-arrest might not matter, a professional letter from an attorney may give them enough pause to at least double check/verify with someone higher up first.

 

Also what about someone obtaining a letter from the NJ AG, recognizing this law. I mean, again, nothing here to interpret as they see fit. The law is very clear and specific. I don't see how the AG could do anything BUT verify it. Again, having that letter on your person could pretty much stop them in their tracks. It would also be useful for buying more then one from a single dealer who might incorrectly object.

 

"They" already try to take so much. Don't give an inch where you don't have to. If the law is on your side, do it. Use every loophole, every end run around available; just because you can.

[Pythagoras 2]

"They" already try to take so much. Don't give an inch where you don't have to. If the law is on your side, do it. Use every loophole, every end run around available; just because you can.

^ This times 1000

[petros600 12]

The only reason to have C&R in NJ, in my opinion

I have used my C&R Lic. to buy multiple pistols but how often do you have the funds to buy multiple worthwhile guns.

If you have a collection of firearms, that Lic. is a $30 insurance policy to prove that you are not stockpiling guns but are in deed a federally recognized collector.

Just remember, you are now inviting "The Man" into your life.

[halbautomatisch 60]

How can "they" make you fill out the form? Because they have guns, badges, handcuffs and "authoritayyy" I can see if you are buying multiple guns from 1 dealer, they may refuse the sale, improperly. But, if you buy 1 gun from dealer A., then buy gun 2 from dealer B, in less then 30 days, and the NJSP call or show up to "point out the errors in your ways", you show them your valid FFL C&R, then cite the specific law above, informing them that you are "a collector of handguns as curios or relics as defined in Title 18, United States Code, section 921 (a) (13) who has in his possession a valid Collector of Curios and Relics License issued by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives;"    as per NJ law, and are therefor exempt from the OGAM requirements.  This is fine and great and all, but the bottom line is that the NJSP has stated that they do not acknowledge that part of  NJ's OGAM law and want all handgun transactions to be on a permit and filed on an exemption regardless of whether a person has C&R license or not. If you do not do so, "they" are likely to charge you with being an unlicensed gun dealer (which has happened to C&R license holders in the past in NJ) or will charge you with acquiring forearms illegally. IMO the law is clear that "they" would be in the wrong for doing so, but you're going to need to spend $50- $100K, and 3-5 years of your life, to clear you of the charges - not something I personally would want to entertain, but if you do, have at it, we could you use a legal precedent. I think what is really going on here is that they are worried that if they allowed people to be exempt from OGAM by having a C&R, it would encourage a lot more people to get a C&R, who would then use it out of state to buy guns without NJ paperwork - something that goes against their objectives of total control.

If they lay a finger on you, sue them, and press charges for false arrest, and related violations/crimes. Good luck with that, NJ is a bastion of liberal judges that don't like guns and are incapable of looking at a case like this with any objectivity. I have never heard of a case in NJ where someone sued after being exonerated of gun charges and won a judgement or the cops or a prosecutor was reprimanded for bring a bogus case to trial. What's going to happen is they will seize all your guns, display your "arsenal" on the 6 o'clock news and then fight you tooth and nail the entire way for 3-5 years, deplete all your resources, and finally give you back your damaged, improperly stored firearms when they can't possibly find any further excuse not to deny them to you.   This isn't an area where they should get any "leeway" for having a reasonable belief, blah, blah, blah. There is nothing open to interpretation. Its plain as day, spelled out in black and white right in the law. I suppose one could have a letter from your attorney prepared, laying out the causes/grounds for the legal/civil actions you could/would take against them should they proceed any further. While you saying it to them mid-arrest might not matter, a professional letter from an attorney may give them enough pause to at least double check/verify with someone higher up first.

 

Also what about someone obtaining a letter from the NJ AG, recognizing this law. I mean, again, nothing here to interpret as they see fit. The law is very clear and specific. I don't see how the AG could do anything BUT verify it. Again, having that letter on your person could pretty much stop them in their tracks. It would also be useful for buying more then one from a single dealer who might incorrectly object.

 

"They" already try to take so much. Don't give an inch where you don't have to. If the law is on your side, do it. Use every loophole, every end run around available; just because you can.

[Wojo 98]

I had one for a couple of months and the more I learned about the liabilities to save a few dollars at over priced Midway and Brownells it wasn't worth it. FWIW, if you own a business, you get discounts too. Anything under 10% is called the a-hole discount.

 

Only 185 in NJ. ...makes for an easy target pool should the NJSP decide to send a message one day.

[mipafox 438]

 

Brownell's and Midway discount. That's about it.

 

 

It's not just those two. You should get a non-authorized dealer discount on firearms and ammo from most places. Not sure if it is different in NJ, but I can't see any reason it wouldn't be.

[mipafox 438]

 

There are currently 185 C&R Licensees in NJ.  I know at least 4 myself.

 

A CR may acquire any CR firearm in another state. They will have to go through an FFL in NJ for handguns acquired while in NJ. Discounts are offered through many sources.

Under Federal law. Does NJ law allow you to acquire a handgun out of state while a resident of NJ and then bring it to your home in NJ? Or does the law say you have to be a resident of the other state when you buy it and then bring it to NJ? NJ law is cradle to grave, you need to be able to prove you possess any firearm as an exception to the law making them all illegal otherwise. I'm asking because I don't know.

[halbautomatisch 60]

 

Under Federal law. Does NJ law allow you to acquire a handgun out of state while a resident of NJ and then bring it to your home in NJ? Or does the law say you have to be a resident of the other state when you buy it and then bring it to NJ? NJ law is cradle to grave, you need to be able to prove you possess any firearm as an exception to the law making them all illegal otherwise. I'm asking because I don't know.

NJ law is silent on acquisition of firearms out of state by NJ residents, so federal law applies.

 

As far as proving you possess a firearm within the exemptions NJ law allows for, that would apply to all firearms (as defined under NJ law) regardless of how you acquired them. Whether you bought a handgun from a NJ dealer with a permit and NICS check, or inherited the handgun from your uncle who lived in Montana and have no paperwork for it, or bought the handgun using your C&R license in Ohio, would not be relevant in a case where the legality of possession is being questioned.