PMAG (GEN M3) won't insert with breech closed (M&P 15 Sport)

[Alex V 99]

Im with MidwestPX on this one.  How the hell does a 15 round mag not seat until there are 9 rounds or less in it.  This is just retarded.

 

I have dousens of Midwest PX Mags and yes, most will not seat on a closed bolt with 15rd in them.  The new Gen3s do but only on two of my 4 ARs (once again, tollorance issues)

 

In classes I load all my mags to 14 just to avoid any issues and have never had a problem seating a mag on a closed bolt.

 

I think you are doing something wront there OP.

 

They would have a stroke if they saw how I treated guns...

 

Same here... Unless you have the first AR ever produced or some other race one off, these are tools, meant to be used as such.

 

These are probobly the same guys that buy Snap-On tools just to admire the chrome.

[bhunted 887]

Weapons are tools? Heh, maybe for people in the military or LE... My guns are not just tools. They are investments no matter the cost.

Last year when I sold off my circa 1979-80 Colt Python and Browning Hi Power; when I purchased em, I never considered them collector items. I shot them as needed and cleaned them. Kept them sharp and shiny. As a result as some of you say may be OCD or whatever, got me top dollar. Did I expect to ever sell them? Nope. Did I think then they would be worth what they were when I sold them? Nope. So taking care of your so called tools or lack there of is ludicrous. I was always taught take care of our tools and they will take care of you. In this scenario, it paid off.

 

For you characters that do not care, that is fine. But criticizing people that take care of their weapons, tools or whatever, is by far, ridiculous.

And as far as the snap on tool statement. I know a lot of AAA certified mechanics that have major investments in their tools. When time permits after a job or at the end of the day, they wipe down every single one of it's oil, grease, crud, etc. clean... I've seen tools in shops that look like they were ran over by tanks. Ratchets that barely racheted.

 

So keep doing what you are doing. Beat them down. Hopefully they won't fail when you really need them. But then again, maybe some of you are rich enough to not care and buy another one when beyond repair... (Shrug).... I'm not.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2 Pro

[Lalo 13]

I agree with the "gun is a tool" comment. I don't care if my AR gets scuffed up or beaten up. Then again I also believe that if you are one of those people that cycle through their guns monthly because you get bored of them, there is nothing wrong with keeping them in good shape. This discussion warrants its own thread.

 

Back on topic - OP, if you are still having this issue where you can only load 9 on a closed bolt, then there is something else wrong with your firearm apart from the mag. Does your bolt catch move freely? What LPK did you use? Try the bad mag in a different AR? Try a different Mag in the suspect AR? There is just no way you have to download to 9 rounds to get it so seat properly.

[plode 0]

And as far as the snap on tool statement. I know a lot of AAA certified mechanics that have major investments in their tools. When time permits after a job or at the end of the day, they wipe down every single one of it's oil, grease, crud, etc. clean... I've seen tools in shops that look like they were ran over by tanks. Ratchets that barely racheted.

 

 

I may not keep my motorcycles or guns clean, but I do keep all of my tools wiped down and clean.  I can't stand going into the tool box for a screw driver only to find it greasy/oily.  Better than rusting though

[vladtepes 1,060]

Weapons are tools? Heh, maybe for people in the military or LE... My guns are not just tools. They are investments no matter the cost.

Last year when I sold off my circa 1979-80 Colt Python and Browning Hi Power; when I purchased em, I never considered them collector items. I shot them as needed and cleaned them. Kept them sharp and shiny. As a result as some of you say may be OCD or whatever, got me top dollar. Did I expect to ever sell them? Nope. Did I think then they would be worth what they were when I sold them? Nope. So taking care of your so called tools or lack there of is ludicrous. I was always taught take care of our tools and they will take care of you. In this scenario, it paid off.

 

For you characters that do not care, that is fine. But criticizing people that take care of their weapons, tools or whatever, is by far, ridiculous.

And as far as the snap on tool statement. I know a lot of AAA certified mechanics that have major investments in their tools. When time permits after a job or at the end of the day, they wipe down every single one of it's oil, grease, crud, etc. clean... I've seen tools in shops that look like they were ran over by tanks. Ratchets that barely racheted.

 

So keep doing what you are doing. Beat them down. Hopefully they won't fail when you really need them. But then again, maybe some of you are rich enough to not care and buy another one when beyond repair... (Shrug).... I'm not.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2 Pro

 

 

I would live by that if I collected guns... between my fiance and I we have 

2 glocks

2 ar15s

1 shotgun

1 AR in 308

 

I am sure you see a pattern there... none of these guns will likely ever be sold because they are filling specific roles.. 

and as rough as I am on guns I have never had a single person ever complain about the guns I sold them...

hell I am pretty sure EVERY AK I ever sold was sold dirty... heard nothing but praise in regards to how the gun functioned.. 

[OchoBlue 3]

http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-119103.html

 

The above thread details a failure to feed when the 2nd round cross crosses the first with PMAGs.

 

If I load to 14 and manually push down the second round into place the magazine loads closed breech.

[ZED 54 1]

 

For visual from the thread.

[OchoBlue 3]

Good visual. Is this common ?

[ZED 54 1]

Waiting for the experts myself. I would ask our friends from PA if this happens to non neutered 30 rounders or if anyone ever had a problem with full 10 rounders.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I have absolutely no function issues with 30 round pmags

[MidwestPX 172]

Good visual. Is this common ?

First time I've ever even heard of it and I go through thousands of mags.  I'd really like to hear how the mag performs in another AR.  If it still fails, I want to look it over myself and I'll replace it.

[ZED 54 1]

Just for clarification the pic I posted was from the thread Ocho posted. I have 3 mags from Midwest and love them.

[High Exposure 5,664]

http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-119103.html

The above thread details a failure to feed when the 2nd round cross crosses the first with PMAGs.

If I load to 14 and manually push down the second round into place the magazine loads closed breech.

 

I am not getting what you are saying here by "manually push down". How are you loading if not manually? Are you using some kind of loader like a Lula or stripper clips?

 

 

For visual from the thread.

Waiting for the experts myself. I would ask our friends from PA if this happens to non neutered 30 rounders or if anyone ever had a problem with full 10 rounders.

 

I oversee 100s of 30 round Pmags, ARC mags and GI mags loaded and used for training every year. I have seen something similar to that photo exactly one time. It happened when a shooter was using stripper clips to load and used a table I stead of his thumb to feed from the clip into the mag.

 

That mag also looks like it has too many rounds in it...

 

ETA: OK. That picture above is of a reported stored mag showing signs of feed lip spread. After reading this I went to my call out bag and grabbed three loaded mags out of my "Oh Sh!t" bag where I keep extra mags, batteries, snacks, etc... These 3 mags were issued to me after being fired to test function, maybe 90 rounds through each, then loaded and stored for a rainy day in 2008. They show no signs of spread.

 

I am extremely curious to see what MWPX makes of it after getting hands on.

Edited September 7, 2013 by High Exposure

[bhunted 887]

Looks bowed out a tad doesn't it?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2 Pro

[MidwestPX 172]

I am not getting what you are saying here by "manually push down". How are you loading if not manually? Are you using some kind of loader like a Lula or stripper clips?

 

 

 

I oversee 100s of 30 round Pmags, ARC mags and GI mags loaded and used for training every year. I have seen something similar to that photo exactly one time. It happened when a shooter was using stripper clips to load and used a table I stead of his thumb to feed from the clip into the mag.

 

That mag also looks like it has too many rounds in it...

 

ETA: OK. That picture above is of a reported stored mag showing signs of feed lip spread. After reading this I went to my call out bag and grabbed three loaded mags out of my "Oh Sh!t" bag where I keep extra mags, batteries, snacks, etc... These 3 mags were issued to me after being fired to test function, maybe 90 rounds through each, then loaded and stored for a rainy day in 2008. They show no signs of spread.

 

I am extremely curious to see what MWPX makes of it after getting hands on.

I think the pic from M4C shows a mag with 30 (the top round is on the side for either 28, 30 or 32) as I initially thought the same that it was jammed to 31.

 

I'd like to know too what the OP means about manually loading.  If he's using a loader, I'd recommend handloading the rounds to see what happens.  The block is inside the spring to maintain factory spring dynamics which should translate to factory reliability so I'm very perplexed at what could be happening.

[OchoBlue 3]

Hi All and thanks for the help / info!

 

I'm only loading the magazine by hand. I'm not using an auto loader.

 

The 10 rounder that came with the rifle can be loaded fully and always seats breech open and closed.

 

With the 15 PMAG I need to hand load it to only 14 and push the second round down to get the magazine to load with the breech closed.

[pbkid6974 1]

i have 6 pmags from mwpx and all 6 seat perfectly with the bolt closed and function fine.

[mge_1 2]

Whether it makes sense or not it's exactly what is happening.

 

I'm shooting with friends in early October so that would be the first opportunity I'll have to try it in other rifles.

Lets go now and I'll bring my sport to ft dix.

[Alex V 99]

Weapons are tools? Heh, maybe for people in the military or LE... My guns are not just tools. They are investments no matter the cost.

Last year when I sold off my circa 1979-80 Colt Python and Browning Hi Power; when I purchased em, I never considered them collector items. I shot them as needed and cleaned them. Kept them sharp and shiny. As a result as some of you say may be OCD or whatever, got me top dollar. Did I expect to ever sell them? Nope. Did I think then they would be worth what they were when I sold them? Nope. So taking care of your so called tools or lack there of is ludicrous. I was always taught take care of our tools and they will take care of you. In this scenario, it paid off.

 

For you characters that do not care, that is fine. But criticizing people that take care of their weapons, tools or whatever, is by far, ridiculous.

And as far as the snap on tool statement. I know a lot of AAA certified mechanics that have major investments in their tools. When time permits after a job or at the end of the day, they wipe down every single one of it's oil, grease, crud, etc. clean... I've seen tools in shops that look like they were ran over by tanks. Ratchets that barely racheted.

 

So keep doing what you are doing. Beat them down. Hopefully they won't fail when you really need them. But then again, maybe some of you are rich enough to not care and buy another one when beyond repair... (Shrug).... I'm not.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2 Pro

 

No one said to use you AR as a hammer or a wheel chuch for your car while you work on it.  But most weapons ARE tools.  For me they are not tools to take out Hadji, but they are tools to protect the life of my loved ones and myself, enjoy range time, and train.  Same as the tools in the tool box in my garage are not used to make money as a machanica, but used to work on my racecar and so on.

 

I also never said to abuse your tools, no one said to treat it like shit.  I clean my firearms when they need it and so on, but if there is a scuff on them, I do not sweat it.  I do not treat my rifles/pistols like a Faberge Eggs or the Crown Jewels.  I am not looking to sell them.  And even the LaRue rifle that I waited 6 months for is treated the same way.  If I had a Magpul China Doll lower or the Costa PredatOBR, they would be treated like collectors pieces, but a standard AR is a tool and should be used as such.

 

And now, back to your regular scheduled program. 

[bhunted 887]

Re-read the first 3 or 4 sentences. I said not just tools. Maybe there is an age factor here. Cause I was raised to take good care of my property no matter what it is. Rather than go on with this because we veered off topic, I'll just say that my tools as you so put it can be both well taken care of and still be functional. Some here think throwing their weapons in the dirt to prove points is fun or making some point. I have no need to do that as there are field tests to watch others do it. One way or another, my weapons will hopefully last for generations and always be in top notch shape. Maybe I'm old school, but that's the way I was taught and it always paid off one way or another.

 

.................So back on topic....

 

Almost all my pags are 15/30 and a few 15/20s.. Some Gen 2's I've received from riflegear and midwestpx had to be sanded a tad just to fall free from my Bushmaster's well. Now they work fine after tweaking. But in my LWRC, they hang up. Go figure. I'm not sanding them any more. Soooo....

 

Now I have bought Ty's gen 3 windowed mags. They work perfect in my LWRC.... They do have to be slammed in a tad harder, but they work with a perfect fit in the well. However, they hang and have to be slammed into my Bushmasters. So I can use all the mags in both rifles but have to remember these issues. Basically I keep gen 3s for the LWRC and the others which I have several, for the BM...

I'll be getting a few gen 4s to see how they work....

 

I have 1 gen3 10 rounder and it is fine in both rifles. So I can only surmise that some of these issues seem to be related mostly to the mods and/or in combo to finer rifle tolerances.

 

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

[diamondd817 827]

I just bought my first set of 20/15 Pmags from Midwest PX. They function fine. 15rds will insert with bolt closed. One problem I did experience was with the mag well of my rifle. I have 2 DPMS rifles, 1 new, 1 a couple years old. The mags would not insert easily into the well of the old rifle like they do in the new rifle. I filed the corners of my mag well and they insert as smooth as can be now.

[bhunted 887]

Just a heads up that usually works. If you have a new mag that binds. Put it in and out several times. It should show wear or scrapes. Those are the spots that need attention.

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

[NickySantoro 211]

Cause they are pinned to 15 and you can't even try to stick a 16th in there it's to tight it does not allow play while bolt is closed unless you totally beast it in there! Welcome to jersey ar's

This^ Best guess is a liability question. They want to make sure that no  badge heavy, double digit IQ dullard can come along and manage to smash a 16th round into the mag.

[High Exposure 5,664]

Wow... You are painting with a pretty broad brush there bub.

[MidwestPX 172]

Huh earlier you stated that you could only load to 9 i think it was.........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The AR rifle is made to be loaded on an open bolt.....given this........LOAD to 15 and load the rifle on an open bolt...or download by one round and load on a closed bolt...

 

Maybe I am dense but I do not get the issue.......is that ONE flipping extra round THAT important....having sold HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of Pmags We have NEVER heard or seen this problem.......

 

Having owned quite a few myself.....I have NEVER had this problem...but then again I load on an open bolt........

Same here only I load to 28 instead of 30.  First class I took with EAG Tactical, Pat berated me for loading my PMAGs to 30 and fighting my carbine when executing a tactical reload.  Have loaded to 28 since.

[High Exposure 5,664]

Same here only I load to 28 instead of 30. First class I took with EAG Tactical, Pat berated me for loading my PMAGs to 30 and fighting my carbine when executing a tactical reload. Have loaded to 28 since.

Pat has a very persuasive personality doesn't he?

 

Fit 31 in an ARC Mag (stupid reversed follower) and dropped a mag on the deck out of my rifle 30 seconds into TD1 on my 5th EAG class. Pat was directly behind me calling the line. Pat said that was the fastest Moosecock ever awarded... FML...

[High Exposure 5,664]

Hammer pair

[MidwestPX 172]

Pat has a very persuasive personality doesn't he?

 

Fit 31 in an ARC Mag (stupid reversed follower) and dropped a mag on the deck out of my rifle 30 seconds into TD1 on my 5th EAG class. Pat was directly behind me calling the line. Pat said that was the fastest Moosecock ever awarded... FML...

I still haven't gotten one...even after dropping the mag in the middle of shooting the first string of five on the modified Navy qual.  That was...embarrassing.