USPSA Approves 8-Shot Revolvers

[Krdshrk 3,877]

So 8 shot revolvers are now allowed - but they're scored as minor PF.

 

http://www.uspsa.org/bodminutes/20131009.pdf

 

 

Revolver Division

Motion:

To approve the proposed rule change to amend the Revolver

Division to allow 8 - shot revolvers provided they are scored as minor power factor

Moved: Pres Seconded A7 Passed

 

Roll Call requested

YES – A1, A2, A3, A4, A7, Pres

NO – A5, A6, A8

 

[AS350Driver 56]

Boo!!!

 

Looking through the link it looks like we'll have Open-15 and Limited-15 here in Jersey too. 

[FLHX 1]

Why wouldn't you want more revolver shooters? I think this is a good thing as it should bring more revo shooter to the mix. I think between OB and CJ there were 3 Revo shooters. That is pathetic, they should either allow 8 or just drop it totally.

 

The nationals only had 118 total shooters!!

[AS350Driver 56]

Why wouldn't you want more revolver shooters? I think this is a good thing as it should bring more revo shooter to the mix. I think between OB and CJ there were 3 Revo shooters. That is pathetic, they should either allow 8 or just drop it totally.

 

The nationals only had 118 total shooters!!

 

Just because I don't have the money to go out and buy an 8 shot.

[Vlad G 345]

I'm more excited that the wording of the software rules means I might not have to use ezwinwcore ever again if practiscore came export classification data directly.

 

 

[Krdshrk 3,877]

I'm actually for it - more revolver shooters.  Higher capacity + lower score (Minor scoring)...  Makes sense to me!

[illy 1]

So, 8 shot shooting powder puff .38s?

[AS350Driver 56]

So, 8 shot shooting powder puff .38s?

 

They will still have to make minor powerfactor.

[Steve_G 51]

So, 8 shot shooting powder puff .38s?

 

Not quite, they still have to make minor power factor.

 

8 shot revolvers, what's next? Rimfire?

[Steve_G 51]

Boo!!!

 

Looking through the link it looks like we'll have Open-15 and Limited-15 here in Jersey too. 

 

 

Sure looks that way.

 

 

2014 Handgun Rulebook

Motion: To re-word 3.3.1 to read:

In jurisdictions where competitors are restricted by law to maximum

magazine capacity, the maximum capacity allowed in the contest, per

division, will be the lesser of said law limitations or division limitations.

Individuals exempt from the law restrictions must still comply with this

section. Any such limitations must be made known to all competitors by the

Match Director/Range Master before the start of the match.

Moved: A7 Seconded: A2 Passed

[illy 1]

For instance:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/153620/winchester-usa-cowboy-ammunition-38-special-158-grain-lead-flat-nose-box-of-50

 

That's 126 PF in a downloaded cowboy action .38.

Out of an 8 shot revolver, that'll feel like shooting .22s

[illy 1]

I'm not complaining btw. I don't shoot competitively and if I did, I'd be shooting exactly that, lol.

[2Alpha 6]

This isn't going to bring in more shooters and it will kill the 625

[Vlad G 345]

The cold hard truth is that revolver division is dead and has been for years. This change certainly can't bring in less shooters. In every division we allow for some form of modern improvements on equipment but why not in revolver?

 

 

[2Alpha 6]

They should kill revolver, send production back to IDPA where it belongs and get back to run what you brung.  And while they are at it, kill all classes and sub-divisions.  You either won or you didn't

[kman 56]

Just out of curiosity, why score them as minor?  Aren't these .357 magnum revolvers that we are talking about?

[Vlad G 345]

They should kill revolver, send production back to IDPA where it belongs and get back to run what you brung. And while they are at it, kill all classes and sub-divisions. You either won or you didn't

Yup let's kill uspsa, I guess you are just being sarcastic. Or at least I hope so.

[silverc6 0]

Just out of curiosity, why score them as minor? Aren't these .357 magnum revolvers that we are talking about?

Except for open, anything under .40 is considered minor.

[alec.mc 180]

I've been somewhat against the proposed 8 shot minor for revolver division, Personally I do not think it will bring new shooters, though who want to shoot revolver are already shooting it. Hopefully this doesnt turn out to be a killer to the 6 shots, I enjoy shooting major, and my 625. 

 

Alot of people argue that it works with single stack, ie : 8 shot major, 10 shot minor - same thing , right? - Wrong -  With alot of stages with 8 shot array, followed by 8 shot array, followed by 8 shot array, there is no way that a 6 shooter could keep up with a standing reload at every position, minor scoring works with single stack because they still have the 8 shots in gun to shoot at the 8 shot max per array.

 

 

 

This isn't going to bring in more shooters and it will kill the 625

 

Agreed, They are really limiting the available guns for competition, As far as I know Taurus is the only other manufacturer besides smith ( S&W 627 ) That is making 8 shots,but the taurus has a open comp on the front, which is not allowed and would be open division, So you are basically making the 627 the only gun for revolver division.

 

With the 6 shot rule, sure the S&W 625 is the most popular gun to use, but it leaves pretty much every other revolver, minor or major , a fighting chance to play the game. 

 

The 627 ( 8 shot ) was already legal in other divisions to compete with , pretty much all except revolver division. 

 

I'll continue to use my 6 shot revolver for uspsa, the only saving grace is creative stage design - nobody likes stages were there is nothing but 4 paper targets followed by 4 papers targets, etc. A little creativity and options on stage break down will really keep a level playing field. 

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Hey Alec, you know what gun I will keep using when I actually have time for USPSA, the ONLY gun I have EVER used in USPSA, and therefore the only gun I am classified in (My Superb D ranking!), and that is my awesome S&W 610!

 

I don't care if I only have 6 shots to use, never mattered to me before, and doesn't matter to me now.

 

When I actually show up to shoot USPSA, all the other revolver people are happy since I simply make them all look BETTER! 

 

So, my 6-shooter will stay at my side and you guys can continue to kick my butt! 

[AS350Driver 56]

Hey Alec, you know what gun I will keep using when I actually have time for USPSA, the ONLY gun I have EVER used in USPSA, and therefore the only gun I am classified in (My Superb D ranking!), and that is my awesome S&W 610!

 

I don't care if I only have 6 shots to use, never mattered to me before, and doesn't matter to me now.

 

When I actually show up to shoot USPSA, all the other revolver people are happy since I simply make them all look BETTER! 

 

So, my 6-shooter will stay at my side and you guys can continue to kick my butt! 

 

Unless Nick is shooting!

[tony357 386]

 This just may have happened to the 625.

[Vlad G 345]

Err so you are saying the the one and only true gun is being replaced by another only one true gun?

 

I don t really see a lot of variety in revolver division anyway.

[NickC 23]

Unless Nick is shooting!

 

Yoooou ill begotten son of a b1tch!

[NickC 23]

I have a hard enough time counting to 6.  

[tony357 386]

Err so you are saying the the one and only true gun is being replaced by another only one true gun?

 

I don t really see a lot of variety in revolver division anyway.

The only saving grace is that the 8 shot shoots minor.. 

[alec.mc 180]

Err so you are saying the the one and only true gun is being replaced by another only one true gun?

 

I don t really see a lot of variety in revolver division anyway.

 

No, I saying the most popular gun is going to be replaced by a one and only gun ( the 627 )  --- ( if you are looking at a 8 shot array heavy stage ) 

 

 

The 625, while the most popular gun to use in USPSA, it not the only player in the field, you can be use just about any 6 shooter, moonclipped or speed loaders , major or minor , and still have a pretty level playing field.  

[Vlad G 345]

You can use any 6shot revolver, but who does? The last Ruger I remember was 2 years ago. I don't think I've ever seen a Taurus. How many guns are there in revolver which aren't L or N frames? 

 

I'd argue that if Timmy Newshooter brought whatever 6 shooter they had at home, not cut for moonclips, without a belt full of speed loaders, he would be at a FAR bigger disadvantage then someone shooting a 625 major will be compared with a 627 minor.

 

What I'm getting to is that revolver division is already such  a strange narrow field, that doing anything to make it wider can't possibly hurt.  I continue to be shocked that given its attendance we even have the division anymore. I'm pretty sure that the day Jerry retires to the big range in the sky and S&W doesn't bring the sponsorship like they do now, there will be some serious questions asked about that. 

[2Alpha 6]

8-minor will give a significant advantage based on stage design,  To be competitive, you will have to know the stages before you pick the division, which means bringing 2 guns and 2x the ammo to a match

[alec.mc 180]

You can use any 6shot revolver, but who does? The last Ruger I remember was 2 years ago. I don't think I've ever seen a Taurus. How many guns are there in revolver which aren't L or N frames? 

 

I'd argue that if Timmy Newshooter brought whatever 6 shooter they had at home, not cut for moonclips, without a belt full of speed loaders, he would be at a FAR bigger disadvantage then someone shooting a 625 major will be compared with a 627 minor.

 

What I'm getting to is that revolver division is already such  a strange narrow field, that doing anything to make it wider can't possibly hurt.  I continue to be shocked that given its attendance we even have the division anymore. I'm pretty sure that the day Jerry retires to the big range in the sky and S&W doesn't bring the sponsorship like they do now, there will be some serious questions asked about that. 

 

We'll that's the point , yes - You CAN use any 6 shot revolver, is it * easier * to use major and moon clips, sure. Are you going to get crushed to last place is you're using magnums with speed loaders? maybe? maybe not - Josh Lentz ( Revo GM ) has repetitively won ICORE championships using a speed loader and beat out moon clipped gun, Like anything else it takes practice , and lots of it. People can be just as fast with  speed loaders with enough practice. 

 

But you are right though too, Revolver Division is a narrow and seldom participated division, and I hope that 8 shot minor does bring in some new blood, I really do - But at the same time, I do not think it'd be " fair " if Timmy Newshooter showed up with a 627 and blew all the 625s out of the water because of the 2 shot advantage. - I just don't want my 625's to turn in to expensive paper weights. 

 

Hopefully i'm wrong, there have been some experiments by people running the same stage twice with both a 625 and 627 to see who comes out on top, some interesting results - but nothing conclusive. 

 

 

 

8-minor will give a significant advantage based on stage design,  To be competitive, you will have to know the stages before you pick the division, which means bringing 2 guns and 2x the ammo to a match

 

Another issue, the winner will be the one with the biggest wallet who can afford to own and bring both guns, and lug enough ammo for both to every match. Study the stages, and then decide what will be better to shoot, USPSA should be a level playing field of shooting ability and not *gaming* it before you even pull the trigger.