Time to start a new gun group in NJ???

[O-gre 7]

When was blue line banned? WTF!

[A-Tech 8]

OK, so you are on some sort of mission here, to set the record straight, but promise to do absolutely nothing for RKBA?

 

That's better than blindly going about your business, how? You have sworn to do nothing positive, but feel a sense of obligation to do something personal and negative.

You're completely misunderstanding, or intentionally taking what I've said out of context. I know that you're never wrong, so this is where I'll stop.

[checko 180]

When was blue line banned? WTF!

?

[ogfarmer 138]

When was blue line banned? WTF!

He's not banned, he was on earlier today

[matty 810]

[djg0770 481]

. You are fully free to go out and start your very own movement just like we did....

Wow. We? Funny. Frank told us it was HIS NJ2AS. He started his movement.

 

I can't help u if you're unwilling to acknowledge that some one has issues. You have to be willing to see the truth yourself.

 

NJ2AS frequently issued statements with spelling and grammar errors, incorrect phone numbers etc. I stepped up and offered to copy edit.

 

Farking crickets. I suppose that wasn't enough. I shoulda gone to a meeting and demanded that they use my help.

[mipafox 438]

You're completely misunderstanding, or intentionally taking what I've said out of context. I know that you're never wrong, so this is where I'll stop.

I think I'm usually wrong, and I probably make a better punching bag than Frank if you need one

 

USE him. Maybe he's not the future. But NJ2AS is not the NRA, it's rather modest and likely fragile. Let's suck it up, take the high road, and give this guy some support and recognition for his efforts. I bet you we turn his ass around. It doesn't take a shrink or any inside information to figure out he's gone off the deep end from doing a thankless job. Now, maybe that's because he's no longer the right person for the job. But it also means we don't have to lose him for us to win, or that he has to be miserable for us to win. We need RKBA to win. And Frank is one of the men for the job.

 

Let's get the train back on the tracks. And that starts with a little forgiveness, support, and gratitude. Anybody that has worked as hard as he has and is so pissed off will respond to some sincere appreciation pretty quick.

[Arizona 0]

Look I'm not trashing the guy he did a lot of hard work and got the organization to where it is today. But he is clearly not the person to take the orginazation to the next level. I know some of you feel for the man because of his past efforts but deep down you can't seriously think things will go well from this point forward with him at the helm.

You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

[mipafox 438]

Look I'm not trashing the guy he did a lot of hard work and got the organization to where it is today. But he is clearly not the person to take the orginazation to the next level. I know some of you feel for the man because of his past efforts but deep down you can't seriously think things will go well from this point forward with him at the helm.

You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

We need him SOMEWHERE. It's time to kiss and makeup. Your wife has been much more unreasonable that this, so you know how that goes. We all do.

 

We have to make this guy feel appreciated and get him back in his groove. And turn this from a crisis into a process.

[Shane45 807]

Yet no hats are landing in the ring.............

[mipafox 438]

Yet no hats are landing in the ring.............

We have the opposite problem where I am. It is so competitive and cut-throat I will not participate. It takes special people to want to compete with each other over... nothing? I work with them, I support them, I bring people, I drive Constituents around the Commonwealth to meet all of their reps, and I run renegade "lobbying" missions (it's not lobbying in the legal sense) at the Capitol. They call me, I do it. They don't call me, I'll do it. They call me and tell me not to do it, I'll do it.

 

If this wasn't Jersey I would keep my hat on and grab the ring. I know people talk smack, and it's really easy for me to have it both ways, but I would.

[bhunted 887]

Opposite problems? Everyone is voicing opinions based on isolated issues of a few?

 

Now I know you are not me or anyone else for that matter.

And not that anyone cares but if it were me. I'd resolve our issues in a personal civil manner. Not air it. If 7 of you had issues out of thousands, still, handle it personally. Not air it and start a linch mob. Why? Because it's not a small business where a manager pissed in your ears. I'd be thinking about the grand scheme of things and take into consideration what he started, what he has accomplished and how many people he had/has to interact with.

 

Have any of you heard of internal customers and external customers? In a corporation, your internal customers are your peers, whether it sales, techs, peons, etc. Externals being clients, vendors, potential customers, etc. Guess what? They all need to be dealt with professionally. Difference here? Frank doesn't get paid. He operates on trust, cooperation, other volunteers, etc... Even if he were a one man army and accomplished as much as he did, I'd still stop to think and work out the issues. Privately.

 

Did anyone stop and think what or why he was hostile on a particular day? Maybe feeling ill, a sick family member, pressure from his tasks at hand. Maybe relate things to his health, age, etc. In the end, are you any better? Can you endure this type of hell with a bunch of screaming, self centered cry babies, whiners, arm chair warriors? You selfish bastards!!!

 

I spent over 4 years of my life not getting paid to do more than full time work. I neglected my family, my home, my friends. All in the name of helping others. I was spit on, praised, cursed at and more! What kept me going was knowing, (the key words are coming, pay attention), knowing that the majority, hundreds, thousands of people I helped, appreciated everything I stood for and did. Some that saw me having a tough time put a hand on my shoulder and said don't let it get you down. Why? Because you mattered!

 

Well now! Frank matters! People like him matter! And if you think the needs of a few out weigh the needs of many, then leave because we do not need nor want you.

 

To try crumble what has been accomplished is wrong and I for one appreciate everyone and do not want to start from scratch because of a few hurt egos. Get over it, sip a few beers with Frank and make up. I bet it will work out! If you don't, then shut up and keep your crap to yourself.

 

Move on and conquer! We have more pressing tasks at hand! This ain't one of them!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using TT 2 Pro

[mipafox 438]

Opposite problems? Everyone is voicing opinions based on isolated issues of a few?

I assume that response is to me. Our problem in PA, at least from, my perspective, is everybody on every gun forum in PA is competing to lead our RKBA organizations.

 

You don't think that's maybe, I don't know, a little different than the "no hats in the ring" problem I was responding to?

 

Who are you fighting against for the position of President of NJ2AS?

[bhunted 887]

I assume that response is to me. Our problem in PA, at least from, my perspective, is everybody on every gun forum in PA is competing to lead our RKBA organizations.

 

You don't think that's maybe, I don't know, a little different than the "no hats in the ring" problem I was responding to?

 

Who are you fighting against for the position of President of NJ2AS?

No mip, not you. I apologize if you thought that. It was addressing anyone in the hurt ego boat in general. Nothing personal. You know I usually quote people I want to adress.

I also typed that whole blurb on my iphone. I dunno how these kids do it! Ugh! Back to my ipad. Not much better sometimes.

...and I'm not fighting for anyone for the position except for Frank. Is that what you meant?

 

Sent from my iPad 2 using T2 Pro

[bhunted 887]

I assume that response is to me. Our problem in PA, at least from, my perspective, is everybody on every gun forum in PA is competing to lead our RKBA organizations.

 

You don't think that's maybe, I don't know, a little different than the "no hats in the ring" problem I was responding to?

 

Who are you fighting against for the position of President of NJ2AS?

Oh and.... Sounds like to many hands in the soup or too many chiefs.

That's a train wreck in progress.

 

 

Sent from my iPad 2 using T2 Pro

[Shane45 807]

Mipa, PA doesnt have "battered wife" syndrome...

[1LtCAP 4,263]

Just saw on FB that Frank officially stepped down from the NJ2AS. There is another page of about 100 people that are saying "Banned for NJ2A$" So pretty much going to hell in a hand basket if you ask me. So much for sticking together. So.... NJGF.com Gun group???

i think there's "moles" within the group. there's been some stupid....no.......stuff so dam stupid, that to call it stupid is insulting to stupid....stuff typed by a couple of people. one of them even drove alan kuhn to leave the group. or was at least part of the reason i think.

[1LtCAP 4,263]

Did he cite a reason for stepping down?

ron soussa

[mipafox 438]

Can we all agree we will do one thing this week to support NJ2AS?

 

I'm going to call Frank and thank him for all his hard work, and send $20. I'll let you guys handle the reforms.

[ogfarmer 138]

I personally been thanking Frank for a while now and also agree there are moles amongst us

[brocglock23 4]

I personally been thanking Frank for a while now and also agree there are moles amongst us

I'm going to renew my membership and attend the next meeting in Winslow. For the money it's worth it to try for another year.  I gotta ask about this. If this is what you say about the members out in the open what do you say behind closed doors. Also if you have proof of moles, care to share?

[ogfarmer 138]

I have no proof, just have suspicions.

 

I renewed a week ago and signed on as a volunteer. I had no reservations

[bhunted 887]

I'm not getting this moles that are doing what? Causing disharmony among the troops? Spying? In just what capacity? Maybe the term should be 'trolls' as to ones that would purposely start controversy up to break down the cohesion of the group. Moles are just something you whack at the arcade with a hammer.

What is there to 'mole' about?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using TT 2 Pro

[Wojo 98]

Shane, just a FYI about people stepping up. Nothing hostile here, just my observations.

 

Again, I didn't have a dog in this fight and had no axe to grind. I did pull back from the group over the last year or so because of some actions I saw. As more people came forward with their negative interactions with FF, I was disappointed. Then after getting that group PM and seeing his actions first hand, I became disgusted. I  actually feel sorry for his inability to correct the course and see where a huge part of the problems lies. Its not Ron. Ron lampooned him, not the members of the group. Then the Genie came out of the bottle and its an angry Genie.

 

During this made for Reality TV Drama, several people have shared that they have tried to throw their hats into the ring, have offered to take some of the load and were rebuffed. Others tried to 'ground' the course of the leader and were met with hostility. Sadly, a great start is being thwarted and having its growth and long term success stymied by the creator.

 

Look it happens all the time in business. People create a good product or idea and the company grows beyond their abilities to manage. At some point the Board or Investors vote the founder out. My company has just gone thru it.

[Shane45 807]

Wojo, as you know you have my full respect and I count you as one of the "switched on" people I interact with. So I am not saying at all your position it without merrit. I have been inactive so I dont have a first hand view of whats going on. But I think I have enough first hand experience to, at least, post some thoughts for consideration. Ultimately, no one is perfect. And if Frank is indeed blowing up, I have seen enough of what goes on first hand, that I understand. I am willing to overlook the "extra" passion for the greater good that comes of his work. And simply, no one else is willing to do it! In the end, its not a company its a group of volunteers. And in that capacity I accept that the pursuit of perfect is not a reality and we have to accept good enough. Look at how frustrating some people can be on this very forum in general with their wacky positions and stupid statements. Amplify that by 10,000 and thats what its like being at the table of NJ2AS with so much coming at you from EVERY direction. Hopefully some day NJ2AS will reach a matuirity level where it runs like a well oiled machine. Its not there yet. But I have to wonder if any volunteer org can get there in NJ because there is a personality trait I have come to observe in NJ's population. That is the odd position of people to think its ok to jump in and claim ownership of an existing organisation even if they were not part of its inception. There seems to be an odd sense of entitlement here. I have observed this in all facets here in NJ including business. I suspect its because very few around here have the drive to actually go out and start their own thing be it a company or a movement. I cant tell you how many times people want to be a partner with me in a business I have started without being in that business or really even having anything to bring to the table. They see the momentum and want to hitch their trailer up and then wrestle to make it thier own. They have all these "ideas" on how I should run my business and that should entitle them to be my partner. When I tell them instead of poker night, bowling night, and drinking night maybe they should try those ideas and start their own company instead, it's "oh my job at wallmart or pumping gas is very taxing and I need that time off to relax". RIGHT! And or of course when I grow tired of explaining why their ideas dont work in biz the butt hurt comes out and so you just get tired and start just saying no thanks. Very odd behaviour that I dont see too much outside NJ/NY. Everyone has an idea, and they think that is enough, someone else should do the work.

[bhunted 887]

You said it much better than I did. Thanks...

 

Wojo, as you know you have my full respect and I count you as one of the "switched on" people I interact with. So I am not saying at all your position it without merrit. I have been inactive so I dont have a first hand view of whats going on. But I think I have enough first hand experience to, at least, post some thoughts for consideration. Ultimately, no one is perfect. And if Frank is indeed blowing up, I have seen enough of what goes on first hand, that I understand. I am willing to overlook the "extra" passion for the greater good that comes of his work. And simply, no one else is willing to do it! In the end, its not a company its a group of volunteers. And in that capacity I accept that the pursuit of perfect is not a reality and we have to accept good enough. Look at how frustrating some people can be on this very forum in general with their wacky positions and stupid statements. Amplify that by 10,000 and thats what its like being at the table of NJ2AS with so much coming at you from EVERY direction. Hopefully some day NJ2AS will reach a matuirity level where it runs like a well oiled machine. Its not there yet. But I have to wonder if any volunteer org can get there in NJ because there is a personality trait I have come to observe in NJ's population. That is the odd position of people to think its ok to jump in and claim ownership of an existing organisation even if they were not part of its inception. There seems to be an odd sense of entitlement here. I have observed this in all facets here in NJ including business. I suspect its because very few around here have the drive to actually go out and start their own thing be it a company or a movement. I cant tell you how many times people want to be a partner with me in a business I have started without being in that business or really even having anything to bring to the table. They see the momentum and want to hitch their trailer up and then wrestle to make it thier own. They have all these "ideas" on how I should run my business and that should entitle them to be my partner. When I tell them instead of poker night, bowling night, and drinking night maybe they should try those ideas and start their own company instead, it's "oh my job at wallmart or pumping gas is very taxing and I need that time off to relax". RIGHT! And or of course when I grow tired of explaining why their ideas dont work in biz the butt hurt comes out and so you just get tired and start just saying no thanks. Very odd behaviour that I dont see too much outside NJ/NY. Everyone has an idea, and they think that is enough, someone else should do the work.

[1LtCAP 4,263]

I'm not getting this moles that are doing what? Causing disharmony among the troops? Spying? In just what capacity? Maybe the term should be 'trolls' as to ones that would purposely start controversy up to break down the cohesion of the group. Moles are just something you whack at the arcade with a hammer.

What is there to 'mole' about?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using TT 2 Pro

a mole can easily cause dissension.  there was one guy in there, that suggested a large group get together, and open carry here in nj. his suggestions of what to do when the police arrived went right downhill from there to the point that what he suggested in my mind was/is bordering on criminal. to the point that if he is still a member when my membership comes up for renewal, i will not be renewing.

[bhunted 887]

a mole can easily cause dissension. there was one guy in there, that suggested a large group get together, and open carry here in nj. his suggestions of what to do when the police arrived went right downhill from there to the point that what he suggested in my mind was/is bordering on criminal. to the point that if he is still a member when my membership comes up for renewal, i will not be renewing.

Sounds more like a Troll, but I get it. He prob flung a lot of hype and would never do it. Sounds like he was trying to follow that other banana that tried to do it in DC where he was the only guy that showed. Prob proof that people thought he was nutz.

I'd like to this that the quorum of this forum, (heh), would not even think of such a thing let alone try institute it. Ugh.

 

 

Sent from my iPad 2 using T2 Pro

[ryan_j 0]

I am impressed by results, any group that can list what nj gun laws they have gotten repealed gets my attention, its certainly not credible to just say without our organization the laws would be worse, tell me what gun laws in nj have been repealed by a groups actions, thats results.

 

So far I don't know of any groups that have gotten laws repealed or struck down.

 

I do know of a few individuals. Jeremy Perez for starters. He hired Nappen and sued his city and the court sided with him. 

 

Oh and Chris Christie did veto some laws last year, but every gun group, from the NRA to ANJRPC and NJ2AS is claiming credit for it. I think NJ2AS had a lot to do with it, but so did ANJRPC. 

[intercooler 41]

No, Ryan, Your elected officials did that. With the aid of those organizations