Time to start a new gun group in NJ???

[1LtCAP 4,264]

I will PM her name to anyone in good standing with NJ2 to see if they know anything about her. Can't be 100% on anything anymore and I don't want to slander an innocent person. But there are enough odd things she has done and said. I have my doubts looking at her FB she is an op for Cryin Brian, but could behind the Shame Wall and be adding fuel the riff. Not that a woman would do such a thing.

 

if you don't mind, could you message her name to me please? i am a paying 2as member since last winter......

[kwadz 11]

dude, you're joking, right? look at what's been happening lately. we can't even just calm the eff down, and let the kiddies work out their problems. and you think we can run a campaign against him? not trying to be a dick, just going by what i'm seeing lately......

 

Fair enough.  I'll give you that. 

 

But I think it will take effort from BOTH sides to calm down and work out their problems internally.  The problem is with all of the public back and forth on Facebook (btw, I'm not referring to our discussions on this semi-private forum), everything is being kept in the open.  If BOTH sides (Frank, Anthony, Ron, NJ2AS members, etc.) could keep their hostility to private messages and not repost private messages to the world, things could simmer down and both sides could move on, separately.

[Shane45 807]

Facebook: The evil technology placed in the hands of older people that will inevitably end up in a made for tv soap opera drama because they simply dont get the nuance!

[kwadz 11]

 

That guy sounds like an ATF plant to me - or a state-level plant, and this caused EXACTLY what it was designed to do;

 

1.    Either making the organization – or people within the organization - culpable / knowledgeable / accomplices to an illegal and unlawful act, thereby opening the whole organization and it’s leadership up to prosecution, arrest, conviction, public disgrace, and of course disbandment;

 

OR…

 

2.    Causing dissension and in-fighting amongst the various components of an EFFECTIVE organization, thereby disabling, crippling, and making it less effective overall due to the distractions.

 

 

This was a (not NJ resident) friend's reaction regarding the story about the guy who was suggesting some radical/illegal activity and got himself banned.  I'm not referring to Ron...I'm referring to the guy who you guys referenced about having suggested a citizens' arrest, etc...and then got angry when Frank booted him.

 

Has anyone looked into him any further to see where he came from?

[bignic83 0]

Wow looks like the liberals have won. I am relatively new to this group and NJ2AS, but this is some serious high school bullshit. We need to pull together or this game is over.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

 

[ogfarmer 138]

a lot of the names are repeated on the list.

 

Please pm the name

[Wojo 98]

So many of these people have no idea that they are on here which is why I posted it. And most importantly, many have done nothing wrong nor contributed a single comment for or against either party. Ironically, some on here are trying to mediate a positive outcome and now are pissed off just as GFH is.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

This was a (not NJ resident) friend's reaction regarding the story about the guy who was suggesting some radical/illegal activity and got himself banned.  I'm not referring to Ron...I'm referring to the guy who you guys referenced about having suggested a citizens' arrest, etc...and then got angry when Frank booted him.

 

Has anyone looked into him any further to see where he came from?

that guy was harvey elder jr.

[WP22 1,558]

 

https://www.facebook.com/shame.wall.5?fref=ts

 

 

Congratulations to the list of names below for making the monthly SHAME WALL!

...

 

 

Wait....folks are upset at being listed on a Facebook page that has 44 friends??? Besides, who knows how may of the 44 are legit.

And instead of getting upset at "shame wall',  they are getting pissed at NJ2A? Come on, now, let's chill out for a sec.

 

You guys understand that you're giving "shame wall'' way more exposure than they could ever hope for.

They are nothing, a nobody. Ignore them.

 

[kwadz 11]

that guy was harvey elder jr.

 

Do we know much about him?  Does anyone know him personally outside of NJ2AS?  Is there any chance that he was trying to get a reaction from the group or is he really just crazy?

[1LtCAP 4,264]

i never met the guy. didn't see too many posts from him in the nj2as group.....but his posts were as discussed above. he's from Gloucester.

 

 here's a link to his page......

 

https://www.facebook.com/harvey.elder/groups

 

 i don't give a dam if he was just trying to get a rise or not. just the fact that he even thought to type that bs on farcebook, i will never associate myself with him. in fact, i wouldn't even do business with him at my shop. ain't no way in HELL i'm having guys in black swat gear come knocking on my door if/when he goes off the deep end.

[kwadz 11]

At this point I don't personally care about Ron's beef with NJ2AS.  He is free to start his own group and/or to mend ties with Frank so that they can work together. 

 

My bigger concern is Anthony.  He and NJ2AS NEED each other.  NJ2AS needs the national exposure that his show gives them, plus the meeting space and facilities (training, etc) that go with it.  Anthony needs the business generated from NJ2AS giving him lots of exposure within NJ and drawing people to his range and encouraging them to take his training classes.  Maybe he and Frank don't need to be friends, but they need to work together.  Otherwise we end up with a situation like the GOP establishment and the Tea Party wing in the Senate dividing the party on the whole and accomplishing nothing.  The other side will run all over us while we're busy infighting.  Let that crap happen privately...both Anthony/Ron and Frank are at fault for taking it to public forums and it needs to stop.  I can personally talk to Frank and try to convince him.  Is anyone on the other side willing to personally reach out to Anthony?  I don't mean sending him an email saying, "you should take it offline."  I mean getting on the phone or visiting him in person and talking to him about it.  Tell him how much both of them are dividing and upsetting the 2A crowd in NJ - NJ2AS and non-NJ2AS.  NJ2AS can work on changing its approach at a later date.  First we need to iron out this division.  I'm willing to go all out to convince Frank the things I suggested above.  Will anyone else pledge to work and push them on Anthony?

[kwadz 11]

i never met the guy. didn't see too many posts from him in the nj2as group.....but his posts were as discussed above. he's from Gloucester.

 

 here's a link to his page......

 

https://www.facebook.com/harvey.elder/groups

 

 i don't give a dam if he was just trying to get a rise or not. just the fact that he even thought to type that bs on farcebook, i will never associate myself with him. in fact, i wouldn't even do business with him at my shop. ain't no way in HELL i'm having guys in black swat gear come knocking on my door if/when he goes off the deep end.

 

There's something wrong with someone like that.  I can't get to Facebook here, but I'd be curious to see whether anyone knows more about him personally.  I'm more interested in learning whether he was sent there as a mole to post sh!t like that and try to tie all of us to it. 

[WP22 1,558]

At this point I don't personally care about Ron's beef with NJ2AS.  He is free to start his own group and/or to mend ties with Frank so that they can work together. 

 

My bigger concern is Anthony.  He and NJ2AS NEED each other.  NJ2AS needs the national exposure that his show gives them, plus the meeting space and facilities (training, etc) that go with it.  Anthony needs the business generated from NJ2AS giving him lots of exposure within NJ and drawing people to his range and encouraging them to take his training classes.  Maybe he and Frank don't need to be friends, but they need to work together.  Otherwise we end up with a situation like the GOP establishment and the Tea Party wing in the Senate dividing the party on the whole and accomplishing nothing.  The other side will run all over us while we're busy infighting.  Let that crap happen privately...both Anthony/Ron and Frank are at fault for taking it to public forums and it needs to stop.  I can personally talk to Frank and try to convince him.  Is anyone on the other side willing to personally reach out to Anthony?  I don't mean sending him an email saying, "you should take it offline."  I mean getting on the phone or visiting him in person and talking to him about it.  Tell him how much both of them are dividing and upsetting the 2A crowd in NJ - NJ2AS and non-NJ2AS.  NJ2AS can work on changing its approach at a later date.  First we need to iron out this division.  I'm willing to go all out to convince Frank the things I suggested above.  Will anyone else pledge to work and push them on Anthony?

Just for the record, I was talking about the "Shame wall" fb page not anybody else.

[kwadz 11]

Just for the record, I was talking about the "Shame wall" fb page not anybody else.

Sorry, my mistake.  I hit "quote" instead of just reply at the bottom.  I edited my post to eliminate the quoting of your previous post.  It wasn't intended as a direct response to your post. 

[KpdPipes 388]

Know what it says to me?

He doesn't want his name dragged through the mud.

He doesn't take any B.S. (I think that's already obvious about him)

He recognizes what's going on within the NJ2AS and has had enough of all the petite B.S.

 

NJ2AS was quick to dismiss and ostracize those that were raising concerns, but had no problem with that "Shame List" that was posted. Quite hypocritical. I left both of the Facebook groups involved because I'm tired of it all. It's like high school with everybody. Obviously, Anthony feels the same and wants no part of it.

Bull$hit  NJ2AS had NOTHING..I say again typed slowly and in CRAYON So nobody can Misunderstand... NJ2AS, the Leadership Committee. ANY of the Officers, and ESPECIALLY Frank Fiamingo had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING To do with that "Shame Wall" Nonsense.

[KpdPipes 388]

Wait....folks are upset at being listed on a Facebook page that has 44 friends??? Besides, who knows how may of the 44 are legit.

And instead of getting upset at "shame wall',  they are getting pissed at NJ2A? Come on, now, let's chill out for a sec.

 

You guys understand that you're giving "shame wall'' way more exposure than they could ever hope for.

They are nothing, a nobody. Ignore them.

 

The stupidity was posted 21 hours before anybody really took notice of it.

[KpdPipes 388]

At this point I don't personally care about Ron's beef with NJ2AS.  He is free to start his own group and/or to mend ties with Frank so that they can work together. 

 

My bigger concern is Anthony.  He and NJ2AS NEED each other.  NJ2AS needs the national exposure that his show gives them, plus the meeting space and facilities (training, etc) that go with it.  Anthony needs the business generated from NJ2AS giving him lots of exposure within NJ and drawing people to his range and encouraging them to take his training classes.  Maybe he and Frank don't need to be friends, but they need to work together.  Otherwise we end up with a situation like the GOP establishment and the Tea Party wing in the Senate dividing the party on the whole and accomplishing nothing.  The other side will run all over us while we're busy infighting.  Let that crap happen privately...both Anthony/Ron and Frank are at fault for taking it to public forums and it needs to stop.  I can personally talk to Frank and try to convince him.  Is anyone on the other side willing to personally reach out to Anthony?  I don't mean sending him an email saying, "you should take it offline."  I mean getting on the phone or visiting him in person and talking to him about it.  Tell him how much both of them are dividing and upsetting the 2A crowd in NJ - NJ2AS and non-NJ2AS.  NJ2AS can work on changing its approach at a later date.  First we need to iron out this division.  I'm willing to go all out to convince Frank the things I suggested above.  Will anyone else pledge to work and push them on Anthony?

 

 

Several people reached out to Anthony last night, Let's just leave it at the results were not Encouraging.  He's also off to SHOT now anyway, so there isnt going to be anything on that front for a week or so anyway.

[TheLugNutZ 21]

Ok can someone do me a HUGE favor and summarize WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON PLEASE.  I will PM you a few bucks gladly for your time and effort.  I cant go back and read 7 pages not to mention i have no access to FB right now.  I am a NJ2AS member myself....

I litterally have NO CLUE wtf is going on!

[alec.mc 180]

 

 

We regret to inform you that the January monthly meeting scheduled for today, Wednesday, January 15, 2014, at Gun For Hire in Belleville has been Cancelled. We apologize to those who planned to attend. Be sure to check our website for future meetings and events. The next scheduled monthly meeting is Wednesday, February 12, 2014 at South Jersey Shooting Club in Winslow.

 

 

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I got added to that group without asking. My first post was why am I in this group. Then I got deleted.

[Arizona 0]

If you have ever been to Anthony's range you will quickly realize he does NOT need nj2as. He would be wise to separate himself from the ridiculous sh!t going on there. I believe he probably lost respect for the leadership awhile back but towed the line. People need to be honest with themselves and ask is this really the man (FJF) that I stand behind 100%. Is he the BEST person to lead the group with all the challenges and pressures that lie ahead? If he can't take a couple of guys calling him out then probably gonna have more problems in the future.

What really pisses me off is that he told the members to go out and apply for their NJ CCW but apparently he nor anyone in the leadership group applied for theirs.

 

Hypocrites

[millsan1 3]

Ok can someone do me a HUGE favor and summarize WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON PLEASE.  I will PM you a few bucks gladly for your time and effort.  I cant go back and read 7 pages not to mention i have no access to FB right now.  I am a NJ2AS member myself....

I litterally have NO CLUE wtf is going on!

 

 

I am posting my story only.  I am not speaking for anyone nor any group.

 

I am an NJ2AS member. 

I have volunteered for NJ2AS functions.

I was at and spoke before every committee meeting this past year.

I was at and spoke at many community meetings re: 2A last year.

I have donated $ to various NJ2AS requests for projects.

At the suggestion of NJ2AS, I ran for office last year.

At every shooting event I was at, I let people know about the candidates from all districts.

I was a member of the "Twitter Army" or whatever for NJ2AS.

I appreciate the work that NJ2AS has done (Project compliance, the buses to the state house, etc)

 

I have the following concerns (brief summary)

Frank's attitude towards members of NJ2AS

Lack of direction, planning and follow through of NJ2AS Leadership Committee projects

 

 

Background complete, here is my story.

 

NJ2AS suggested to members we become candidates.  I took the bull by the horns and did so.  Whenever I asked for guidance or help in the process, I received little to none.  I was told to go through the motions, figure it out, share my experiences and give them a report, so the next batch of candidates could have success.  This was my first inkling that the board did not make plans, that they got ideas and went forward.

 

I got my ass handed to me, but I did my part.

 

At some point in time later, it was suggested that we all go out and get the paperwork for CCW.  Then, when the time was ripe, we strike!  But again, nothing came of that project.

 

I had several interactions with Frank in person, and made several suggestions.  Each was met with "oh yeah, we were already going to do that."  Possible, but not likely.  If anyone has video from the first demonstration, at some point in time, Frank makes mention of all the females that were present.  Back up 1 minute.  You will see me talking to Frank.  I suggested he mention the women present, and was told "I was already going to do that"  1 minute later, he makes the comment.  Something similar happened at a different meeting and another item re: procedural stuff had the same outcome.  Now either Frank and I are on the exact same wavelength, or I was being dismissed and my idea used.  To be clear, I was not looking for him to give me credit, but "That's a good idea" is much better than "Oh yeah, I was already going to do that", which seems like a stretch that all 3 times we spoke, it happened.

 

So these things, put me in a position of removing myself from NJ2AS FB page, 6 months ago.  Still an active member, but not so motivated.

 

About 2 months ago, I posted something, not really sure, on a FB page (not NJ2AS) and Frank immediately and angrily and publicly attacked me, my involvement, cursed me out, etc.  First reaction.  No discussion, nothing rational, just an attack.

 

I asked him to call my cell, so we could talk.  He called my cell, cursed me out, minimized my participation, compared which one of us has done more (he has, no doubt, but what does that matter?).  He then hung up on me.

 

I managed to get a phone call in with him where I was allowed to speak.  I brought up my concerns and his response was something along these lines: "Oh you are one of those people who needs everything handed to you on a silver platter.  You have accomplished nothing in life and never will."  So by asking the organization that suggested I run for office for some guidance, I am looking for everything on a silver platter?  I won't go into life accomplishments, that is silly.

 

Sweet.

 

So I still stayed a member, and was even less likely to be engaged.

 

Fast forward to this past week and I became aware of a page called "Banned by NJ2A$$hole" which I immediately knew who they were talking about.  Let's be perfectly clear on this.  The page is NOT anti NJ2AS.  It specifically attracted me because of the target of the ire expressed there.  No one on that page is anti 2A, anti NJ2AS as an organization or is looking to splinter nor bring down NJ2AS.  I am confident that ALL of us want a better, stronger NJ2AS.  We just feel the group and position have outgrown Frank.

 

 

Again, to be perfectly clear, I don't know nor do I care about the story behind Ron and Frank.  I really could not care less, beyond the point that another member was diminished and attacked by our president for putting forth a dissenting opinion, as I was.  As the group grew and conversations flew, it became clear that a good number of people have been on the receiving end of this.  And to a person it appears that the attacks were based solely on disagreeing with an idea or thought put forth by NJ2AS.

 

I have been kicked off the Twitter Army, because if you don't agree with Frank, you don't agree with NJ2AS and are trying to fracture the group.  And as a punishment for trying to fracture the group, the NJ2AS has decided to fracture the group.  Sound logic, huh?

 

I emailed with Frank and expressed my concerns with his actions.  His replies all centered around NJ2AS and how little I have accomplished, blah blah.  But the most telling thing about these interactions is that it is clear to me that Frank believes he IS NJ2AS.  He is not.  He has put in the most work.  It is the organization he founded.  But the members are NJ2AS.  It is clear that the group is his private fiefdom.

 

I made the wall of shame, Anthony Mills!

 

So long story short, I was heavily involved, grew weary of the directionless actions of the executive committee and was attacked by the president multiple times.  My response was to pull back from my involvement, and join a FB group of like minded people.

 

For that, I am vilified.  OK.  Sounds good.

 

I am moving to PA.  I will still be a member of NJ2AS and send in my $.  I care deeply about all of our rights.  I want success in NJ.  If I can help, I will.  But I will not be cursed at, insulted and diminished for simply putting forth a differing opinion by a man who leads a group that is supposed to care about all our rights.

 

Flame away.

[lunker 274]

I am posting my story only. I am not speaking for anyone nor any group.

 

I am an NJ2AS member.

I have volunteered for NJ2AS functions.

I was at and spoke before every committee meeting this past year.

I was at and spoke at many community meetings re: 2A last year.

I have donated $ to various NJ2AS requests for projects.

At the suggestion of NJ2AS, I ran for office last year.

At every shooting event I was at, I let people know about the candidates from all districts.

I was a member of the "Twitter Army" or whatever for NJ2AS.

I appreciate the work that NJ2AS has done (Project compliance, the buses to the state house, etc)

 

I have the following concerns (brief summary)

Frank's attitude towards members of NJ2AS

Lack of direction, planning and follow through of NJ2AS Leadership Committee projects

 

 

Background complete, here is my story.

 

NJ2AS suggested to members we become candidates. I took the bull by the horns and did so. Whenever I asked for guidance or help in the process, I received little to none. I was told to go through the motions, figure it out, share my experiences and give them a report, so the next batch of candidates could have success. This was my first inkling that the board did not make plans, that they got ideas and went forward.

 

I got my ass handed to me, but I did my part.

 

At some point in time later, it was suggested that we all go out and get the paperwork for CCW. Then, when the time was ripe, we strike! But again, nothing came of that project.

 

I had several interactions with Frank in person, and made several suggestions. Each was met with "oh yeah, we were already going to do that." Possible, but not likely. If anyone has video from the first demonstration, at some point in time, Frank makes mention of all the females that were present. Back up 1 minute. You will see me talking to Frank. I suggested he mention the women present, and was told "I was already going to do that" 1 minute later, he makes the comment. Something similar happened at a different meeting and another item re: procedural stuff had the same outcome. Now either Frank and I are on the exact same wavelength, or I was being dismissed and my idea used. To be clear, I was not looking for him to give me credit, but "That's a good idea" is much better than "Oh yeah, I was already going to do that", which seems like a stretch that all 3 times we spoke, it happened.

 

So these things, put me in a position of removing myself from NJ2AS FB page, 6 months ago. Still an active member, but not so motivated.

 

About 2 months ago, I posted something, not really sure, on a FB page (not NJ2AS) and Frank immediately and angrily and publicly attacked me, my involvement, cursed me out, etc. First reaction. No discussion, nothing rational, just an attack.

 

I asked him to call my cell, so we could talk. He called my cell, cursed me out, minimized my participation, compared which one of us has done more (he has, no doubt, but what does that matter?). He then hung up on me.

 

I managed to get a phone call in with him where I was allowed to speak. I brought up my concerns and his response was something along these lines: "Oh you are one of those people who needs everything handed to you on a silver platter. You have accomplished nothing in life and never will." So by asking the organization that suggested I run for office for some guidance, I am looking for everything on a silver platter? I won't go into life accomplishments, that is silly.

 

Sweet.

 

So I still stayed a member, and was even less likely to be engaged.

 

Fast forward to this past week and I became aware of a page called "Banned by NJ2A$$hole" which I immediately knew who they were talking about. Let's be perfectly clear on this. The page is NOT anti NJ2AS. It specifically attracted me because of the target of the ire expressed there. No one on that page is anti 2A, anti NJ2AS as an organization or is looking to splinter nor bring down NJ2AS. I am confident that ALL of us want a better, stronger NJ2AS. We just feel the group and position have outgrown Frank.

 

 

Again, to be perfectly clear, I don't know nor do I care about the story behind Ron and Frank. I really could not care less, beyond the point that another member was diminished and attacked by our president for putting forth a dissenting opinion, as I was. As the group grew and conversations flew, it became clear that a good number of people have been on the receiving end of this. And to a person it appears that the attacks were based solely on disagreeing with an idea or thought put forth by NJ2AS.

 

I have been kicked off the Twitter Army, because if you don't agree with Frank, you don't agree with NJ2AS and are trying to fracture the group. And as a punishment for trying to fracture the group, the NJ2AS has decided to fracture the group. Sound logic, huh?

 

I emailed with Frank and expressed my concerns with his actions. His replies all centered around NJ2AS and how little I have accomplished, blah blah. But the most telling thing about these interactions is that it is clear to me that Frank believes he IS NJ2AS. He is not. He has put in the most work. It is the organization he founded. But the members are NJ2AS. It is clear that the group is his private fiefdom.

 

I made the wall of shame, Anthony Mills!

 

So long story short, I was heavily involved, grew weary of the directionless actions of the executive committee and was attacked by the president multiple times. My response was to pull back from my involvement, and join a FB group of like minded people.

 

For that, I am vilified. OK. Sounds good.

 

I am moving to PA. I will still be a member of NJ2AS and send in my $. I care deeply about all of our rights. I want success in NJ. If I can help, I will. But I will not be cursed at, insulted and diminished for simply putting forth a differing opinion by a man who leads a group that is supposed to care about all our rights.

 

Flame away.

Well said. Hopefully this puts to bed the "mole" and saboteur theories. I have been a dues paying member since the beginning and wish the group success but would like to see a change at the top too. Perhaps Frank's duties need to be divided and another position created. I don't think all of his tirades can be blamed on overwork though.

[bhunted 887]

No flames Mill... I'm sorry this has all transpired behind the scenes. Just proves that we cannot be arm chair warriors because we never have all the stories. All I can say is wow, I'm speechless.

 

 

Sent from my iPad 2 using T2 Pro

[ogfarmer 138]

Jim you never give up do you? Just negativity and resentment

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Thanks for posting that Anthony. It helps those of us who are not on the inside (or on Facebook) to get an idea of what's going on. I've been a member of NJ2AS for a couple of years, gone to some meetings, taken days out of my office to attend political rallies, and donated money. I have had a few superficial exchanges with Frank, and quite honestly, I have never seen that side of him. I have found him to be the energy behind the organization, and a good spokesman for our cause.

 

I was one of the people who contacted him not long ago to encourage him to use NJ2AS to help coordinate our push to file a load of CCW apps. He agreed to it reluctantly, only after taking time to give it serious scrutiny. So the idea that some people have that he pushed a bunch of us to apply for permits, while not doing so himself is way off base.

 

Bottom line is that NJ2AS seems to be an effective group to keep us organized as we fight to retain what little is left of our 2A rights in this godforsaken state. I hope we can keep the CCW push going, regardless of how this all turns out.

[ogfarmer 138]

BTW the twitter army thing was some dumb chick deleting everyone, nothing to do with Frank

[Shane45 807]

Millsan, your post is the poster child of what I'm talking about. If you need your hand held to lead your project, your not the guy! Plain and simple. I absolutely, without a doubt, will bet the farm on the fact that every idea you gave has been given 20 times over at a minimum.

 

It startles me how easy people must think these endeavors are. I fully admit I am not up to speed on any current NJ2AS internal activity as I took a leave of abscence about a year ago. ANd I have no clue what the current nonsence is about. But as a founding board member, I obviously still carry the torch.

 

But some of you seem to be dying to fan the flames like a bunch of kids sitting on the sidelines yelling fight, fight, fight to egg on the two kids in the center that may never have fought at all. Its pathetic!

 

Do any of you realise that Anthony is/was PART OF THE NJ2AS leadership? As in a member of the board? Trust me all these people have each others cell on speed dial. So in my humble opinion, intervention is not needed by anyone outside the circle. Frankly you should all just leave them alone and let people cool off!

[ogfarmer 138]

The CCW thing was being planned but some people were not happy waiting for the go ahead and kept pressuring so Frank finally said go ahead, but since your not letting us totally figure this out then we take no responsibility. I do believe some of them have begun the process.