NJSP REQUALIFICATION

[maintenanceguy 510]

21 minutes ago, Ringwoodfrank said:

I’m not going to overthink my statement.  Unless and until I receive correspondence from the State Attorney General, I will follow the guidance of the Chief, along with his written affirmation email that requalification was not required until renewal. 

Anyone who gets the same guidance should keep the email.  If something happens and you're arrested and charged, you can use that email as part of your criminal defense.  Entrapment by estoppel is the legal term for "I was coerced into committing a crime because the government gave me bad advice".   It's a legitimate defense in court.  Just need to convince 12 jurors and you're free to go - eventually.

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

1 hour ago, Ringwoodfrank said:

I’m not going to overthink my statement.  Unless and until I receive correspondence from the State Attorney General, I will follow the guidance of the Chief, along with his written affirmation email that requalification was not required until renewal. 

I'm pretty sure that the memo issued by the NJ AG and published on the NJSP web site trumps whatever your Chief of police told you. The AG is his boss, after all. 

[Ringwoodfrank 24]

Perhaps, but wondering how many on here have been contacted by the issuing entity regarding the ‘interim’ requirements and submission of documents?

[JohnnyB 4,325]

I was contacted and I complied with the requests for the form SP182 and Sp182a.

[Ringwoodfrank 24]

JohnnyB - State Police or local Chief?

[Cheflife15 455]

55 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

I was contacted and I complied with the requests for the form SP182 and Sp182a.

I guess I have to sub to this thread. 

I never filled our sp182a but the Detective in charge of Piscataway said I was good with sp182. I guess I'll fill it out and send it in tomorrow to avoid any bs.

[JohnnyB 4,325]

2 hours ago, Cheflife15 said:

I guess I have to sub to this thread. 

I never filled our sp182a but the Detective in charge of Piscataway said I was good with sp182. I guess I'll fill it out and send it in tomorrow to avoid any bs.

Don't sweat the SP182a. If you do turn it in just put one or two guns on it and carry whatever you own! It really doesn't matter!

[Cheflife15 455]

7 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

Don't sweat the SP182a. If you do turn it in just put one or two guns on it and carry whatever you own! It really doesn't matter!

I was told I have to carry the one guy I started with anyways. Is the court order no longer enforced? 

It's like a second job keeping up with all the changes. 

[rockchef1 4]

2 hours ago, Cheflife15 said:

I was told I have to carry the one guy I started with anyways. Is the court order no longer enforced? 

It's like a second job keeping up with all the changes. 

If you have a court order you MUST abied by that order until you RENEW  or get a NEW UNRESTRICTED permit

[Cheflife15 455]

38 minutes ago, rockchef1 said:

If you have a court order you MUST abied by that order until you RENEW  or get a NEW UNRESTRICTED permit

I'm totally fine with that. I like my carry gun. I just don't want to fill out any more paperwork for a few weeks lol.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

On 11/17/2023 at 7:05 PM, Mr.Stu said:

I'm pretty sure that the memo issued by the NJ AG and published on the NJSP web site trumps whatever your Chief of police told you. The AG is his boss, after all. 

I'd be interested to see the official org chart that shows a local Chief of Police reporting to the Attorney General of NJ. The mayor and council of that jurisdiction might have some oddball idea that he reports to them.

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

2 hours ago, Grima Squeakersen said:

I'd be interested to see the official org chart that shows a local Chief of Police reporting to the Attorney General of NJ. The mayor and council of that jurisdiction might have some oddball idea that he reports to them.

The AG is the Chief law enforcement officer for the entire state. You won't find him in the organization chart for a PD, but he is the last word in the executive branch when it comes to law enforcement. 

This is the reason police chiefs are repeatedly dropped from the law suits. The AG being enjoined covers every cop in the state. 

[xXxplosive 824]

Shooters Sporting Center
rspoSndteoth7imi9239lu9mga2llt86a537lgua511a81g5fmt27f7504hu ·

We want to start this post by saying a huge THANK YOU to all our loyal customers, employees, friends and family for making the last 10 years such an unbelievable success. It has been our pleasure to serve, work with and meet each and every one of you.
For those of you that have not heard, the property where Shooter's is located is being sold to Ocean County. With Ocean County's plan to turn the property into a Regional Training Center for First Responders. In the future, Ocean County will be looking at the possibility of opening the ranges to the public.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

3 hours ago, xXxplosive said:

Shooters Sporting Center
rspoSndteoth7imi9239lu9mga2llt86a537lgua511a81g5fmt27f7504hu ·

We want to start this post by saying a huge THANK YOU to all our loyal customers, employees, friends and family for making the last 10 years such an unbelievable success. It has been our pleasure to serve, work with and meet each and every one of you.
For those of you that have not heard, the property where Shooter's is located is being sold to Ocean County. With Ocean County's plan to turn the property into a Regional Training Center for First Responders. In the future, Ocean County will be looking at the possibility of opening the ranges to the public.

Yeah, I saw that. Sad development imo. I'm going up there to requalify Tuesday evening, and I'll be bidding the place good-bye at the same time. I don't own a huge firearms collection, but I do own a few, and evey one of them was purchased from or through (FFT) Shooters. I might visit the new/old store at some future date, but that isn't certain.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

On 11/10/2023 at 8:26 AM, xXxplosive said:

......there's no qual or administrative stuff tied to the 2A.

Unfortunately, Thomas allowed for "reasonable" vetting for carry in Bruen. A rare mistake on his part, imo. You are correct, there is no provision in the 2nd A to require any kind of qualification, testing, or training to bear a firearm, any more than any such nonsense is required to exercise the right to free speech.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

On 12/8/2023 at 8:40 PM, Mr.Stu said:

The AG is the Chief law enforcement officer for the entire state. You won't find him in the organization chart for a PD, but he is the last word in the executive branch when it comes to law enforcement. 

This is the reason police chiefs are repeatedly dropped from the law suits. The AG being enjoined covers every cop in the state. 

This practice may have become customary, but I remain skeptical that it is ultimately legal. I guess time will tell.

[xXxplosive 824]

31 minutes ago, Grima Squeakersen said:

Yeah, I saw that. Sad development imo. I'm going up there to requalify Tuesday evening, and I'll be bidding the place good-bye at the same time. I don't own a huge firearms collection, but I do own a few, and evey one of them was purchased from or through (FFT) Shooters. I might visit the new/old store at some future date, but that isn't certain.

Google the location and see all the open land surrounding them.......IMO, it's probably a good opportunity to take the money and.....RUN.

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

37 minutes ago, Grima Squeakersen said:

This practice may have become customary, but I remain skeptical that it is ultimately legal. I guess time will tell.

It has only been the law since May 21, 1970. How much time do you think is needed?

https://www.njoag.gov/about/

52:17B-98. Declarations of policy

The Legislature recognizes that the existence of organized crime presents a serious threat to our political, social and economic institutions and helps bring about a loss of popular confidence in the agencies of government. Accordingly, it is hereby declared to be the public policy of this State to encourage cooperation among law enforcement officers and to provide for the general supervision of criminal justice by the Attorney General as chief law enforcement officer of the State, in order to secure the benefits of a uniform and efficient enforcement of the criminal law and the administration of criminal justice throughout the State. All the provisions of this act shall be liberally construed to achieve these ends and administered and enforced with a view to carrying out the above declaration of policy.

L.1970, c. 74, s. 2, eff. May 21, 1970.

[revenger 473]

17 hours ago, Grima Squeakersen said:

Unfortunately, Thomas allowed for "reasonable" vetting for carry in Bruen. A rare mistake on his part, imo. You are correct, there is no provision in the 2nd A to require any kind of qualification, testing, or training to bear a firearm, any more than any such nonsense is required to exercise the right to free speech.

I think a way to get qualification removed would be to have a pro-2A governor / legislature from a pro-2A state pass a similar law for voting rights.   "Any legal citizen of the state must take a voter qualification course and score a minimum of 90% in order to receive a Permit to Vote card,  card would be valid for 2 years from date of issue, applicant shall provide 4 references, be of good moral character and submit fingerprints."    when the communists protest this and challenge this to the SCOTUS and it is struck down then any prerequisite to  exercising a constitutional right will be dropped.

my opinion of course. 

[1LtCAP 4,264]

1 hour ago, revenger said:

I think a way to get qualification removed would be to have a pro-2A governor / legislature from a pro-2A state pass a similar law for voting rights.   "Any legal citizen of the state must take a voter qualification course and score a minimum of 90% in order to receive a Permit to Vote card,  card would be valid for 2 years from date of issue, applicant shall provide 4 references, be of good moral character and submit fingerprints."    when the communists protest this and challenge this to the SCOTUS and it is struck down then any prerequisite to  exercising a constitutional right will be dropped.

my opinion of course. 

it could work

[1LtCAP 4,264]

2 hours ago, revenger said:

I think a way to get qualification removed would be to have a pro-2A governor / legislature from a pro-2A state pass a similar law for voting rights.   "Any legal citizen of the state must take a voter qualification course and score a minimum of 90% in order to receive a Permit to Vote card,  card would be valid for 2 years from date of issue, applicant shall provide 4 references, be of good moral character and submit fingerprints."    when the communists protest this and challenge this to the SCOTUS and it is struck down then any prerequisite to  exercising a constitutional right will be dropped.

my opinion of course. 

in fact, i'm stealin this......

[MartyZ 693]

I just love Manalapan. Submitted my application on 11/20, got an email today that my permit is ready and gave me a link to download it.

 

Now, is the downloaded permit a temp and I have to pick up the actual permit from the PD. Or is the download permit the actual one?

[xXxplosive 824]

If it's like the NJSP....my son was told to down load his permit and have it laminated which he did......that's his permit.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

On 12/10/2023 at 1:47 PM, Mr.Stu said:

It has only been the law since May 21, 1970. How much time do you think is needed?

https://www.njoag.gov/about/

52:17B-98. Declarations of policy

The Legislature recognizes that the existence of organized crime presents a serious threat to our political, social and economic institutions and helps bring about a loss of popular confidence in the agencies of government. Accordingly, it is hereby declared to be the public policy of this State to encourage cooperation among law enforcement officers and to provide for the general supervision of criminal justice by the Attorney General as chief law enforcement officer of the State, in order to secure the benefits of a uniform and efficient enforcement of the criminal law and the administration of criminal justice throughout the State. All the provisions of this act shall be liberally construed to achieve these ends and administered and enforced with a view to carrying out the above declaration of policy.

L.1970, c. 74, s. 2, eff. May 21, 1970.

I don't know - how long were unconstitutional 2A restrictions in place prior to Heller and Bruen? :-) Also, in my thesaurus "encourage" is not synonymous with "mandate". Of course, some parties in NJ have traditionally "encouraged" repayment of loans by methods some might regard as compulsion, so I guess htere is precedent...

 

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

9 hours ago, revenger said:

I think a way to get qualification removed would be to have a pro-2A governor / legislature from a pro-2A state pass a similar law for voting rights.   "Any legal citizen of the state must take a voter qualification course and score a minimum of 90% in order to receive a Permit to Vote card,  card would be valid for 2 years from date of issue, applicant shall provide 4 references, be of good moral character and submit fingerprints."    when the communists protest this and challenge this to the SCOTUS and it is struck down then any prerequisite to  exercising a constitutional right will be dropped.

my opinion of course. 

Might fly at the moment in Texas...

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

On 12/10/2023 at 1:27 PM, xXxplosive said:

Google the location and see all the open land surrounding them.......IMO, it's probably a good opportunity to take the money and.....RUN.

I had made the mistaken assumption that the Seaman family was sitll somehow involved with Shooters (thought Gormley might be an in-law) but apparently that has not been the case for quite some time. DId a little more research on the Ocean County official web pages. Purchase price of the land was $900,000 in 2010 (iirc). Assessment went to 3 mil (again iirc) with improvements (the range building and parking lot) in 2013. Taxes for 2022 were $85,000. That seems high for a 3 mil property to me down here in Cape May County. That's one hell of a value increase for the assessing party (Ocean County) to buy now for 10 mil. Not sure there isn't some "Jersey biz" going on there beyond what meets the eye. Regarding the surrounding land, wouldn't a lot of that likely be impaired by Garden State Parkway easements? It's block 6 lot 65 if anyone wants to follow up (I strained my old eyes enough already, and I need to shoot tomorrow night :-) That's Ocean County, btw, some news sites (Sandpaper for one) were directing readers to the Ocean Township site.

[revenger 473]

4 hours ago, Grima Squeakersen said:

I had made the mistaken assumption that the Seaman family was sitll somehow involved with Shooters (thought Gormley might be an in-law) but apparently that has not been the case for quite some time. DId a little more research on the Ocean County official web pages. Purchase price of the land was $900,000 in 2010 (iirc). Assessment went to 3 mil (again iirc) with improvements (the range building and parking lot) in 2013. Taxes for 2022 were $85,000. That seems high for a 3 mil property to me down here in Cape May County. That's one hell of a value increase for the assessing party (Ocean County) to buy now for 10 mil. Not sure there isn't some "Jersey biz" going on there beyond what meets the eye. Regarding the surrounding land, wouldn't a lot of that likely be impaired by Garden State Parkway easements? It's block 6 lot 65 if anyone wants to follow up (I strained my old eyes enough already, and I need to shoot tomorrow night :-) That's Ocean County, btw, some news sites (Sandpaper for one) were directing readers to the Ocean Township site.

maybe the NY AG and judge engoron " AKA   Roland Freisler" should look into it?

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

17 hours ago, revenger said:

maybe the NY AG and judge engoron " AKA   Roland Freisler" should look into it?

Did you mean NJ AG? What would form the basis for that inquiry? Shooters is private property, and the owner is entitled to dispose of his or her property in any manner he or she pleases. I'm very sad to see them go, but I hold no grudge against Gormley et al for getting whatever the traffic would bear. Now, possibly, some Ocean County taxpayers group might want to investigate whether or not Ocean County is paying 2 - 3x the fair market value of the property. If that is the case, it wouldn't necessarily mean that Ocean County is deliberately trying to rid itself of a shooting range, per se. It could easily be no more than incompetence and willful disregard of the value of the taxpayer's dollar, two characteristics that pretty well define most governments with which I am familiar. BTW, I dislexically swapped the lot and block numbers in my previous post.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

On 11/17/2023 at 6:26 PM, maintenanceguy said:

Anyone who gets the same guidance should keep the email.  If something happens and you're arrested and charged, you can use that email as part of your criminal defense.  Entrapment by estoppel is the legal term for "I was coerced into committing a crime because the government gave me bad advice".   It's a legitimate defense in court.  Just need to convince 12 jurors and you're free to go - eventually.

It may be a legitimate defense (IANAL), but one that I suspect would prevail only after multiple appeals. If I were in that position, I would want to be certain that I was a paid-up member us US Law Shield, or some similar organization that is obligated to provide legal defense for charges aginst those members in good faith compliance with firearms laws, at no additional expense to the defendant.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

BTW, how many here think that the December 31 requalificaiton date was selected to cause maximum inconvenience during the holiday season, and result in the revocation of as many PtC as possible? They could just as easily have made it on the anniversary date of the permit. Could be a coincidence, I suppose, but I think that any and all paranoia regarding the motivations of the state of NJ on any firearms issue is emminently justifiable.