Ammo type for HD

[JimmyAGR 54]

Hello all,

 

Just ordered my first shotgun. A Mossberg 590 SP Military, 9 shot 20 inch barrel. This is my first shotgun and I am looking for HD ammo suggestions. It's 12 gauge 2 3/4 or 3 inch shells. I know this is probably like Chevy vs. ford, but I am looking for some ideas. Thanks in advance.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

I have some Winchester Super-X 00 Buck. Good pattern, good ammo. Some good reviews online.

 

Federal Vital-Shok also has good reviews.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=691137

 

Pretty much any buckshot will be good.

[Shane45 807]

Jimmy, is over penn an issue at all? If so the shotty may not be your best choice. I have read AAR's from a few officers that were fist on scene or did the actual trigger pulling and their info was birdshot just dont do it! Even at close range. This means to me that buck would be in order but has bad over penn issues......

[EchoMirage 137]

what shotgun round to use is like what hollowpoint is the best. theyre ALL good, and the actual difference in performance is so minute youll never be able to tell. ANY 00, 000, 1 or 4 buck will be perfectly adequate. personally, im using centurian buck & ball. 6 #1 pellets and one .65 caliber round ball, with several 00 buck floating around.

 

if you want to experiment, measure the longest line of site distance in your house. set up a man sized target that distance away, and pattern different shells to see which is the most accurate and tightest grouping for your particular gun.

[SpecialK 193]

Buck in the tube, because if you don't have time to rack it then you want to shoot something that is going to stop the assailant no matter what. Bird Next on deck in case you decide the buck in the tube is going to have penetration issues and you have time to rack it once. Slug on hand(to hand load and rack) or 2nd in the magazine in case a family member is being used as a human shield with a knife or gun to them and you need to go for a head shot. Might want to get a tin foil hat to wear if you are at the point for the last one to make sense...mine is made of Reynolds wrap the cheap stuff doesn't stop all the government agencies at once.

[Old School 611]

Jimmy, is over penn an issue at all? If so the shotty may not be your best choice. I have read AAR's from a few officers that were fist on scene or did the actual trigger pulling and their info was birdshot just dont do it! Even at close range. This means to me that buck would be in order but has bad over penn issues......

 

Shane- I've seen a 2X4 cut in half with bird shot at close range. So I kind of think in 12ga bird shot is formidable.

 

Just my opinion

[Malsua 1,422]

Buck in the tube, because if you don't have time to rack it then you want to shoot something that is going to stop the assailant no matter what. Bird Next on deck in case you decide the buck in the tube is going to have penetration issues and you have time to rack it once. Slug on hand(to hand load and rack) or 2nd in the magazine in case a family member is being used as a human shield with a knife or gun to them and you need to go for a head shot. Might want to get a tin foil hat to wear if you are at the point for the last one to make sense...mine is made of Reynolds wrap the cheap stuff doesn't stop all the government agencies at once.

 

If you have enough time to make those decisions "Hmm, will this go through the perp and injure my neighbor? Perhaps I'll use a lighter shot, perhaps maybe round it out with a few swipes of the buttstock to the head" maybe it wasn't really that critical in the first place. Give me a break. That is NEVER the time to make the decision. The time to make the decision is now. The whole bit about human shield? You lost. Throw down your gun beg for mercy, I mean...gee, I'll only put out an eye or two of my loved one. Either you have a clear shot or you don't. Did you ever pattern a shotgun? At HD ranges, Buckshot holds a much tighter pattern and you'd be less likely to injure your loved one.

[SpecialK 193]

If you have enough time to make those decisions "Hmm, will this go through the perp and injure my neighbor? Perhaps I'll use a lighter shot, perhaps maybe round it out with a few swipes of the buttstock to the head" maybe it wasn't really that critical in the first place.

An intruder downstairs in my house is just as critical to me as one right in my face while I am downstairs.

 

Give me a break.

you may have a break

 

That is NEVER the time to make the decision.

when I was kicking in doors in Baghdad I frequently had to make the decision on the spot of when to shoot and where to shoot. At no point did I say that everyone could do that, but I can, so making decisions of round use isn't something I am going to freeze on.

 

The time to make the decision is now.

I believe I did make a decision. Of course that is the decision for if I only had one shotgun, I keep multiple guns loaded with different rounds as I am confident in my ability to pick the appropriate round when the time comes.

 

The whole bit about human shield? You lost. Throw down your gun beg for mercy, I mean...gee, I'll only put out an eye or two of my loved one. Either you have a clear shot or you don't. Did you ever pattern a shotgun? At HD ranges, Buckshot holds a much tighter pattern and you'd be less likely to injure your loved one.

an eye or two with a single slug? That would be one hell of a shot! You must have missed the part about the tin foil hat at the end, but that was more so a joke seeing as no one would take a shot like that ever, if they weren't confident in their abilities. I personally feel confident enough to actually take that shot though as I have had plenty of training shooting slugs out of my shotgun at close to mid range.

[Malsua 1,422]

Well, I guess if you can follow your flowchart during a home invasion after you just woken up that's a good thing.

 

The man at the top of the thread doesn't even own a shotgun yet.

 

I still say the following; Determine what your penetration tolerance is and load to the max RIGHT NOW somewhere within your guideline. Everything else is just nonsense. Adding a shell decision during a stress event is a gigantic point of failure.

[SpecialK 193]

While I would recommend your suggestion as well, I am pretty sure he asked for suggestions (plural). If one internet forum is all he plans to use for his research on this he is already set up for failure. With suggestions from the most basic to the most complicated he can research more options.

 

Original poster the bottom line is what ever you decide on, practice with it. Don't just pick it and then never use it again. Familiarity with your equipment, in what could possibly be a stressful situation for you, will make everything go smoother.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Perhaps this might assist the original poster in making a decision on a HD load:

 

The Box of Truth compares penetration of various shotgun rounds:

 

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

[Ray Ray 3,566]

buck is fine, bird is good, slugs will do the job

 

how's that?

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Bird won't stop 'em according to that box 'o truth test. Buck is good. #4 to 00. Slugs will overpenetrate.

[fliks 20]

00 buck is good, whatever brand. I've also got those Centurion "buck & one big ball" shot shells. Glenn says it's for people that can't make up their minds, I say it's the best of both worlds...

[Caine 147]

I like Federal 00 with the flight control wad. Seems to pattern really well in most shotguns. But, as others have already said, the best thing to do is try a few different brands and see what your specific gun likes.

 

Birdshot vs. Buckshot is an eternal debate. No one is going to shrug off a chest full or birdshot... but, it won't put someone down the way buck will. It's definitely something to think about.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

...I've also got those Centurion "buck & one big ball" shot shells. Glenn says it's for people that can't make up their minds, I say it's the best of both worlds...

 

I've got a couple of boxes of those too. Lotta recoil on those loads!

[fliks 20]

I've got a couple of boxes of those too. Lotta recoil on those loads!

yah, but not so bad with that Knoxx SpecOps stock... mmm that thing is sweet!

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I've tried many 00Buckshot loads in my 870. The best one's where the cheapest. Sellior & Bellot 00Buckshot has good shot pattern at 7 yards and had the lowest recoil out of the ones I tested. Which was alot.

[Caine 147]

Ray - you should try the low recoil Federal 00. It's almost like shooting birdshot

[JimmyAGR 54]

Thanks Guys didn't want to start a **** storm. I will do plenty of research, this was just my starting point. I always thought 00 buck, but will research other loads and most of all practice.

[bulpup 98]

Thanks Guys didn't want to start a **** storm. I will do plenty of research, this was just my starting point. I always thought 00 buck, but will research other loads and most of all practice.

 

 

I'm thinkin next trip out to CR (the 19th) we should all be ready to pattern. THeir rules seem a little constricting for this but it would be great to try it.. What do you guys think?

[Shane45 807]

Old school, actual shootings are what formed my opinion on birdshot... YMMV.

[Caine 147]

I'm thinkin next trip out to CR (the 19th) we should all be ready to pattern. THeir rules seem a little constricting for this but it would be great to try it.. What do you guys think?

I've always wondered about that. I know they have a pattern board set up at the shotgun range... but I've never actually seen anyone use it. Not to mention the signs about birdshot only.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Ray - you should try the low recoil Federal 00. It's almost like shooting birdshot

 

I did, but it the Sellior & Bellot was even better. I tried:

 

Federel 00

Federal low recoil 00

Federal Mil spec 00

Hornady TAP (ouch)

Winchester 00

S&B 00

Remington HD 00

 

The winner was S&B

[bulpup 98]

I've always wondered about that. I know they have a pattern board set up at the shotgun range... but I've never actually seen anyone use it. Not to mention the signs about birdshot only.

 

 

I forgot about the birdshot. Hmm. ALthough I would like to check that pattern too with my clay pidgeon loads.

[Old School 611]

Again... You guys are killing me!!!!!

The biggest room in my house is the family room and it is 25 feet long.

OK so that's 8 yards. Rule of thumb is shotgun patterns give you 1" of spread per yard.

So... at 8 yards I'm throwing a 8" pattern weighing 1 1/4oz at 1400fps into somebodies center mass.

Somebody do the foot pounds calculation please. Now if that doesn't knock down Godzilla I want to know why.

So I take a lousy shot. Take out an arm, Gozilla goes down. I miss and hit the groin, Godzilla goes down.

My shot goes high and I hit Godzilla in the throat or face, what happens?

 

The only benefit I can see to one shot kills is you won't have somebody to sue you but they're family will

so what's the issue.

 

If I wasn't concerned about over penetration I'd take double taps with the AR.

 

Oh! I did the calculation. 2376 foot pounds

 

For comparison...308 has 2460 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle compared to 1350 ft. lbs. of energy for the .44 Magnum

 

Just some thoughts...

[Shane45 807]

Old school, Id take the Ar over the shotty any day of the week. Proper 5.56 is far better at not ovepenetrating than buckshot, this is fact. Your math is just that, math. It doesnt take anything into account other than the numbers. You can look up numbers all day long but in the end, if 50 shooting with bird shot are 50 failures to stop.... it doesnt matter what the numbers say. The problem for birdshot is penetration I believe. It makes hamburger of the surface but fails to get anywhere near the desired 12 inches of penn in tissue that pretty much every agency etc etc uses as one of the predictures of effectiveness to effectively reach vital organs. Lawsuits and that nonsemse are not the issue. Incapacitating your assailant enough to keep him from shooting you back is.

[Caine 147]

The winner was S&B

Interesting. I'll have to pick up some one of these days to try it out.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Ray - Can you bring some of the S&B buck to BH tonight?

[fliks 20]

alright, alright, you're twisting my arm here... I got S&B buck and I got the Mossy, I'm now 70% likely to show up @ BH tonight...