Tea Party

[StarWarsGeek45 5]

Why do I picture you wearing this on a T-shirt?

 

You mean this one? Of course I have it

 

[Underdog 1,593]

Here is the thing though, the Tea Party is just another bunch of nuts who are following their own thing.

 

If the Tea Party had their way, the US Economy would have already imploded, just my words as a financial professional.

 

remember that month long period of time when people were against bail outs? That is what caused 8% of your retirement dollars to go away in one day. Politicians playing politics to play up to their political constituencies.

 

There is being right, and being effective. While I agree 100% in principle that the Us government needs to stop spending money and start balancing the budget, and I am all for privatizing social security, and lowering taxes... guess what, it aint the most effective approach.

 

If the above were to happen, we would have the great depression 2. With all the economic issues in Europe, (issues of different mentalities of various EU nations), any so called crisis in the united states... turn over, kiss your butt goodbye. We were within hours of a major banking meltdown (ie all the us banking instututions were about to fail) in 2008, which was averted in the 11th hour. And all of it could of been avoided had politicians, both on the right and the left started listening to experts and not trying to impress their base. (If you really want to know the story, ask me in person, toooooo long to write up).

 

Where we are right now, the best way to understand it is this... give you two examples....

 

1. United States is a 2 packs a day smoker. Any more smoking will be met with certain death. You got to stop smoking. do you quit cold turkey and become a miserable b*tch for the next few months, or do you go on the patch and try things to ween off of it?

 

2. United States is a heavily debted person, do we default on the debt by filing bankruptcy, screwing the lenders (that would be you and me), or do we hire a debt manager and work it out over time.

 

 

Much like after WW2, unfortunately we have to spend money to make money and to avert a bigger catastrophe. Its a tough decision, but it is what has to be done. By not spending money, money is not going to roll into the private sector. Personally as a business owner, contrary to what you might be spoon fed on TV, I couldn't give a rats butt what the state of the US Debt is, or what not. Money is as cheap as it ever was to borrow. The only person in charge of my company's success is me.

 

Hire great people, do a great job, and all will be a success.

 

Contrary to what might be out there, ask any business owner, the number one concern right now is finding good people. With unemployment being as high as it is, the big issue is finding qualified people. With a ton of folks being out of a job for 2 years, they lost their skills and desire. The great employees, are still working. (this is for the private sector) (I do not deal with, or even pretend to understand the public sector).

 

So bottom line, hopefully you can see where I am coming from, the Tea Party, while in theory was great ( a true grass roots movement), just became a different type of radical. Unfortunately, Michelle Bachman and the other ultra conservative nut jobs, know as much about the economy or what is best for us, as I know about the migratory pattern of birds in Europe. (which is exactly nothing).

 

If you want to succeed, you have to do it for yourself. No politician give a rat's butt about you personally, all they care about is being elected/reelected. If they succeed, they just might do something good for you, but I doubt they will sacrifice anything themselves for you.

 

(btw, my elected position is as a Republican committee person for mercer county), and yes, they are all a bunch of tools bickering over email.

 

 

I disagree with your assessment of the Tea Party. You are wrong. They are trying to turn the inevitable. This administration and its minions have not compromised at all and will not compromise. They are not doing this because they believe that it is better for our country, though misguided. They are doing this to destroy our economy and push us so far over the limit that we cannot go back. It would not have mattered had the Tea Party not made a stand. We would be in the same boat. In fact, we might have been in a much worse position without even knowing it. There is no reasoning with this ideologue and this agenda and the powerful people that back him... Soros, etc. There IS no compromise or middle ground.

 

The correct analogy would not be a chain smoker, but rather someone with breast cancer that decides to avoid it by not seeking treatment. Once it metastasizes, it will be too late. The Republican doctor attending would be thinking about the hair loss from radiation treatment, while Dr. Obama would be be thinking about spending a fortune on treating a hang nail and directing everyone's attention to it.

 

Obama, realizing that he may not get elected will become as radical and enact as many executive orders as he can, like getting the gun shop owners in the border states to register people buying guns. His purpose will be so radical to one, distance himself from his party, and two, to continue to inflict mortal wounds on our country and its economy.

 

I, too, work in the financial industry, and I hear what you are saying, but the Tea Party supporters in Congress and the Tea Party are not at fault. Blame the 53% of the people that put this Marxist in power if you want to assign blame. Blame all of those drinking the koolaid and not paying taxes for wanting more entitlements. Blame the crony capitalism, or more correctly, crony corporatism and the unions that have dumbed down the American people, etc. Even blame television, but not the Tea Party. The Tea Party has done incredible things to attempt to turn around what has been the most dangerous trajectory to destroy our American "experiment" of self-governance. The private sector, the golden goose is being choked.

 

Employment will continue to be high and increase while regulation after regulation is implemented, Obamacare is implemented, the private sectors and markets are attacked, and while the executive branch continues to undermine our freedoms through fiat and by undermining the Constitution.

 

The Tea Party is the messenger. And, I guess you know what always happens to the messenger since this is a Gun Board.

 

It really makes me sad that so many Americans don't know what is at stake. What the real issues are. Those that are in power and want to control. They want more power. Maybe, they really do belief that the vast number of humans on this planet cannot be left to their own decisions. I believe that part of this is that those in power know that bad things are coming down the pike. Real bad things in which there is not enough water or food, and they want to get as much control as they can now, before the real SHTF. People don't go to war on full bellies and maybe they want to avert this war. But, instead of trying to work on these real problems that are coming up with our increasing population, their answer is to maintain order with an iron fist. And, if that is not the reason, then the only other reason could be just for control and power for its own sake.

 

Should you be upset that people lost their savings and that the stock market did what it did? Should I be upset that I am losing my job in a couple of months, mostly because of the poor economy that has been crafted by a liberal agenda? Oh, well lets find a scapegoat, the Tea Party. Obama is telling his minions to destroy the coal industry, while he is pretending to create jobs. He says one thing, while he continues on his agenda doing other things to harm us. There is case after case, point after point if you are following the news closely and getting it from credible and varied sources.

 

This is being done to us intentionally. The Housing Market Crisis and what followed was fabricated and intentionally enacted at that time right before the election. Obama is just biding his time as our economy, and that of Europe and Asia collapses through a series of chain reactions. The United States is the main problem to these elitists bringing forth a world order, and giving the world bank even more influence over our lives. If it falls, so does the rest of the world, and they are betting on it. They have things in plan to pick up the pieces and be in control. When people need basic needs met, they will come forth as the big government answer and gain more control.

 

Why do you think that they want to disarm America. It isn't to protect children from finding firearms and shooting each other. It isn't to stop mass shootings. It is to control a populace, many of which still remember a taste of freedom and would not give it up.

 

But, I digress. It is time to go to bed. And I hope the nightmares of history don't repeat themselves.

[StarWarsGeek45 5]

Why do you think that they want to disarm America. It isn't to protect children from finding firearms and shooting each other. It isn't to stop mass shootings. It is to control a populace, many of which still remember a taste of freedom and would not give it up.

 

I contend that America was disarmed long ago.

 

In one camp, Camp A, you have the people who don't own guns, and tend to buy into the gun control myth. They hate guns and support laws against them. No threat posed, really.

 

In the other camp, Camp B, you have the people who like guns, and own them, and believe in the Second Amendment - to varying degrees from the seasonal Deer Hunter to the "Patriot" who would "fight tyranny". From the guy who owns a 28" 12ga to the guy with three dozen black rifles.

 

But somewhere in the last couple decades the powers-that-be got smart. They subverted Camp B and Camp B still doesn't even know it. Through the use of nationalism they have generated unquestioning support for police and military for those who do like guns. They've gotten these people onto the side that's pro-indefinite detention and pro drug war. They've gotten these people to fill the ranks of the military and PDs nationwide. They've been programmed to cheer at any waving flag. They've been programmed to support monied interests who wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. They've been programmed to stockpile thirty thousand rounds of ammunition for when "SHTF" but laugh at people who go out to protest.

 

So that if the time ever came that the second amendment was needed to be used for its original intent, the vast majority of those who exercise it would be harmless to the powers, since they would most likely be on the side of tyranny without even knowing it.

 

Anyway, that's enough tin foil for now I suppose.

[Maksim 1,504]

Hitler's Nazi party was also all about the people.

 

Hey, might as well round up all the libs and put them in camps because they don't see it the same way as we do. Might as well kick out every anti gun person there is.

 

The point is, there are people that truly have different view points.

 

Right here in Vegas, was at the craps table one night, talking to the people around me, and after they found out I am here to shoot at nationals, they started asking questions. All is good. One of the guys, whom might be a potential client, is a movie producer from California. He was really interested in what I do, how I came to shoot as a hobby and so forth. While he respected my view points and beliefs, his opinion is that a lot of the basic gun control stuff, such as nics and education requirements for CCW permits are a good idea. Whether I agree with him or not, that is his basic opinion.... and there is absolutely nothing anyone can do, you have to respect other people's view points. Yes, we can bash people all day long about how it is 2a, and so forth, however we live in a country where everyone is entitled to their opinion. By forcing one agenda, we are no better than the communists, dictators, and monarch's of the past.

 

That is what sickens me about where the country is right now. It's not the economy, or the debt, or anything else. It is that people are so hostile that they are ready to rip someone's throat out because they don't agree with you.

 

If everyone only focused on the things they can control, there would be alot more happy people. I do apologize that you are in fear of loosing your job. Short of your company going bankrupt, if you are a good employee, you have nothing to fear. I've been actively looking to hire people for the past 2 years, the biggest problem is finding good people, not my fear of having to let someone go. Maybe I am an eternal optimist... but whats the point of worrying about stuff you cant control nor you can influence?

[matty 810]

Matty, what did you contribute? What did your appearance there look like to others? What have you contributed? Miss Hathaway is obviously doing her part.

 

Obviously you are concerned with our country, or you wouldn't have attended. Maybe you were just curious. Did you show others that Tea Party members could be cool ahd hip? Last time I was at a meeting, they passed around the TEa and not the Koolaid.

 

Are you awake and contributing? What have you done since that meeting? How many letters have you sent to your representative? Did you go to Washington? Have you checked the books that your kids are learning from in your community?

 

As I said, I happened upon it, the event was at a local park. I did not go there to attend the thing, I was walking by with my dog and stopped to listen out of curiosity. I contribute plenty locally, in ways I don't care to explain to someone on the internetz. Good luck with the whole Tea Party thing though.

[Guest]

Oi vey... What am I doing......

 

Ok it's easy the problem with the good ole USA IMHO is

 

Absolutism

 

He/she who yells louder gets heard Kinda like a large family gathering.

 

The extremes are dictating agenda whether left or right. Again IMHO most citizens are in the middle on most things

 

Example (at least for me)

 

I believe in a women's right to choose. Do I believe that right extends beyond a few weeks, no. Do I believe that abortion should be used as birth control, no. I do believe there are sensible parameters that can guide this that makes sense for everyone. BUT THE EXTREMES ON EITHER SIDE DICTATING THE AGENDA to the detriment of everyone else

 

I believe in the 2a. I believe in private firearms ownership. Do I believe that we should all be allowed to run around with full auto mac10's, no. Do I believe that there should be licensing, education, training to own firearms, yes

But I also believe that there should be 100% ccw nationwide if I provide the training insurance competency etc set on specific guidelines. THE PROBLEM IS THE EXTREMES ARE DICTATING THE AGENDA

 

I could go on but u get my point

 

Once ur idea is absolutist, u are part of the problem.

 

Absolutism, in any of it's definitions, does not jive with a government of the people by the people for the people as far as governance goes.

[Underdog 1,593]

Oi vey... What am I doing......

 

Ok it's easy the problem with the good ole USA IMHO is

 

Absolutism

 

He/she who yells louder gets heard Kinda like a large family gathering.

 

The extremes are dictating agenda whether left or right. Again IMHO most citizens are in the middle on most things

 

Example (at least for me)

 

I believe in a women's right to choose. Do I believe that right extends beyond a few weeks, no. Do I believe that abortion should be used as birth control, no. I do believe there are sensible parameters that can guide this that makes sense for everyone. BUT THE EXTREMES ON EITHER SIDE DICTATING THE AGENDA to the detriment of everyone else

 

I believe in the 2a. I believe in private firearms ownership. Do I believe that we should all be allowed to run around with full auto mac10's, no. Do I believe that there should be licensing, education, training to own firearms, yes

But I also believe that there should be 100% ccw nationwide if I provide the training insurance competency etc set on specific guidelines. THE PROBLEM IS THE EXTREMES ARE DICTATING THE AGENDA

 

I could go on but u get my point

 

Once ur idea is absolutist, u are part of the problem.

 

Absolutism, in any of it's definitions, does not jive with a government of the people by the people for the people as far as governance goes.

 

Why doesn't the mainstream news and all the media call out the idealogues on the Left?

[Underdog 1,593]

I somewhat agree that absolutism is a problem. But I would like to put a finer point on this.

 

I will start by saying that America is made up of roughly 20% liberal, 40% conservative and 40% independent (although they tend to lean in various degrees toward the right). What you would consider the extreme right does do radical, horrific things, like blowing up abortion clinics and such. However, those extremists are in no way supported by the center Right, even though the media tries to make all on the Right as extremists. Most Americans on the right would make it clear that they don't condone the actions of extremists. The Left extremists, on the other hand have as much cover for their actions as the media can get away with. At the very least, they are portrayed as not responsible for their actions. And, for the most part, the mainstream Left does not denounce them, and to some extent view the actions as the ends justifying the means.

 

This all comes down to a philosophy of there being two types of people. There are those that take responsibility for their own actions and believe that humans will generally do the right thing, if left alone. And, there is another group that believes that humans are incapable of taking care of themselves and making their own decisions. These people believe that humans need structure and that the majority need to be told what to do.

 

A majority of people in this country believe the former, and that belief can be seen in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. The founders had a fear of concentrating too much power and thus designed a government framework to limit that power the government would take over its people. They even put into it the ability for reform, as reform would be necessary as things change. However, they set forth principles to a theory of self-governance and attempted to create a limited government with just enough framework for that to occur in. A government and a society in which everyone would be seen as equal under the law.

 

On the other side, the other side has little regard for these principles toward self-governance and personal responsibility. In fact, those outdated documents from another era just get in the way of transforming the society to an ideal of equality in circumstance that they want. The problem is that all people are not equal. Each individual has special skills and aptitudes, and each individual has differing levels of drive. So much so, that they only way that they could bring about their vision of equality is through tyranny.

 

I would further add that the majority of Americans want to be left alone. They do not want this control over them and they are too busy with their own lives to get involved. It is not the Right that is forcing its will on others. It is the Left. It is the Left that wants to get involved in every facet of our daily lives from what toilet we can buy, to what lightbulb we can buy, to what size car we can buy, to what size gun we can buy, etc. Because the Right believes that you can decide what you want, it does not get involved.

 

Is there a place for a middle ground? I believe so. But it would need to swing back, like a pendulum quite far for that to occur. The Left, or statists are bent on changing everything. And their idea of change is NOT the reform that the Right would take.

[Underdog 1,593]

America is being tested right now, and it is a time for reflection and action. Decide what your principles are, and act accordingly. We can choose to continue with self-governance and improve upon it, or we can choose something else. And, we don't even know what that someting else will be. As Pelosi said, we have to pass it so see what's in it. I would choose to proceed more conservatively, and to try and learn from history rather than pass the bill right now, right now. In your heart, what is the true nature of humans? Can they be left alone to live and prosper, or do they need to be babysat by remote and detached authority? Which is more important to you, the liberty of the individual, or the tyranny of collectivism?

 

The Tea Party has decided which direction it would take. We desperately need to become real communities and not those that are soically engineered by community organizers. I believe that there is still time to change the trajectory this country, and by default, the direction the rest of the world is going to take. But we have little time and it is slipping away.

[Underdog 1,593]

I agree with a lot of what you said. I have many Constitutionalist (if that is a word) views about limiting the role of government in our lives, and really wanted to like the Tea Party. If a group is constantly going to be shoving Jesus/God/Yahweh in my face, I am not going to be a part of it. Practice all the religion you want. I don't care about "In God We Trust" on coins, or prayers at public events, or any of the other aspects of religion in our public lives so long as they aren't mandatory. I feel like I put up with the religious social conservatives in the Republican party because the Democratic Party is a worse alternative in most ways. I imagine there are a lot of Democrats who have no use for the race grievance mongers and government dependent welfare bums that make up some of their party, but they still see it as a better alternative than the Republicans.

I had hoped that the Tea Party would turn into something that took elements from both parties, but it feels as though it has been hijacked by the Corporatist wing of the Republican Party.

 

 

The Tea Party is not that way. It is an large group of people with many beliefs. There may be extremely religious members in it. But it is a variety of Americans and made up of Democrats, Republicans, and Libertarians. If you belief in the Constitution and limiting the role of the government, then you are an honorary member by default. Apparently, you see yourself as an outsider because you have not been involved. If religious dogma is not your thing, there is plenty of room for you in the Tea Party. The only possible reason it feels like it could be hijacked by the Corpratist wing of the Republican party is because you aren't involved, and you are watching the mainstream media coverage. I was in Washington in Septemer of 2009 and it was one of the most amazing experiences of my life.

[Guest]

Why doesn't the mainstream news and all the media call out the idealogues on the Left?

 

Let me first say I HATE, LOATHER DESPISE the term MAINSTREAM media....do you think FOX is ANY less mainstream than say CNN????

 

I think news in general from the days of the first press has a bias, both left leaning and right leaning..............all depends on the writer...

 

As an example.....MSNBC CNN etc...tend to lean left.... FOX etc tend to lean right....

 

I have not found ONE news outfit that is not biased in some way.... The problem is MOST if not all news outlets today are not NEWS outlets at all, rather they are OPINION shows...sure there is a smattering of 'news' in there but it appears the goal is to provide more political commentary than anything...

 

Look we have a duty to sift the wheat from the chaffe.... If you rely on JUST fox news or JUST MSNBC for your 'new' you are doing yourself a disservice.

 

Again you illustrate my point.... What is the PRIME DIFFERENCE between Hannity and Maddow???????????????????

 

 

 

NOTHING....... Albeit one leans left, one leans right.... nuff said..

 

Most of us can make a distinction from propaganda, both left and right, and actual news stories....

 

 

I will start by saying that America is made up of roughly 20% liberal, 40% conservative and 40% independent (although they tend to lean in various degrees toward the right).

 

I am sure you can cite DATA for those ascertations as to political makeup of america....

 

 

 

This all comes down to a philosophy of there being two types of people. There are those that take responsibility for their own actions and believe that humans will generally do the right thing, if left alone. And, there is another group that believes that humans are incapable of taking care of themselves and making their own decisions. These people believe that humans need structure and that the majority need to be told what to do.

 

A majority of people in this country believe the former, and that belief can be seen in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. The founders had a fear of concentrating too much power and thus designed a government framework to limit that power the government would take over its people. They even put into it the ability for reform, as reform would be necessary as things change. However, they set forth principles to a theory of self-governance and attempted to create a limited government with just enough framework for that to occur in. A government and a society in which everyone would be seen as equal under the law.

 

On the other side, the other side has little regard for these principles toward self-governance and personal responsibility. In fact, those outdated documents from another era just get in the way of transforming the society to an ideal of equality in circumstance that they want. The problem is that all people are not equal. Each individual has special skills and aptitudes, and each individual has differing levels of drive. So much so, that they only way that they could bring about their vision of equality is through tyranny.

 

I would further add that the majority of Americans want to be left alone. They do not want this control over them and they are too busy with their own lives to get involved. It is not the Right that is forcing its will on others. It is the Left. It is the Left that wants to get involved in every facet of our daily lives from what toilet we can buy, to what lightbulb we can buy, to what size car we can buy, to what size gun we can buy, etc. Because the Right believes that you can decide what you want, it does not get involved.

 

Is there a place for a middle ground? I believe so. But it would need to swing back, like a pendulum quite far for that to occur. The Left, or statists are bent on changing everything. And their idea of change is NOT the reform that the Right would take.

 

 

I disagree with some of your statements yet I agree with others....if I did not have to run out at the moment I would engage you in this further, however that being said.

 

Your failing to realize ONE fine point.....

 

Politics is NOT about the people.

Government is NOT about framework for organization.

 

It is about power and control.

 

Politics and government whether controlled by left leaning and/or right leaning PEOPLE, is solely based on controlling the masses, gaining power and influence and inflating the old pocketbook. I do not care one wit if you are a Leftist, NEOCON, Tea Party member FASCIST, NAZI, COMMUNIST, whatever... IT IS ALL ABOUT CONTROL, POWER and GREED....

 

Government and Politics in ALL its 'glorious' or not so 'glorious' forms thoughout the ages has had the same issues time and again. Once those that gain power and influence over another, by whatever means or scope, will not relinquish it without a struggle.

 

IMHO the true test of the 'tea party' will be if they get elected in any area of the country to see how long THEY will hold onto power.... I venture a guess I will not be shocked by the fact that they will NOT give up their power once they have some influence either.

 

The pendulum swings both ways and is always swinging, the country is not in any worse state morally, ethically, politically etc than it was say 50 years ago, 70 years ago

etc.... The right screams at the left, the left screams at the right....it never ending and they are all full of mierda del toro....

 

The current landscape of a "two" party system as we are currently setup is silly....... why do we NEED political parties anyway?? The governmental process of checks and balances as a whole is NOT working within the framework of the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches and needs to be revamped....due to the power grab and greed by those that CURRENTLY have power or WANT power, both left and right. The ideals of Civil SERVICE are long lost............

 

I would go so far as to say that ALL the current Representatives need to be recalled and tossed out, as well as the judicial and executive branches and we start from scratch with all new elections....... FROM The PEOPLE, and not the groomed select few...

 

Our Consitutional Republic CAN work, once we make it HARDER for those in power to HOLD it.......it is unconscionable that you can have a senator from a state or a congressman from a district for ANYMORE than a few terms....

 

State your ideas in an open and free way, meet with your opponents, listen to the PEOPLE, go do a job, once done move along and allow the next person to step up and keep moving forward....

[Underdog 1,593]

I contend that America was disarmed long ago.

 

In one camp, Camp A, you have the people who don't own guns, and tend to buy into the gun control myth. They hate guns and support laws against them. No threat posed, really.

 

In the other camp, Camp B, you have the people who like guns, and own them, and believe in the Second Amendment - to varying degrees from the seasonal Deer Hunter to the "Patriot" who would "fight tyranny". From the guy who owns a 28" 12ga to the guy with three dozen black rifles.

 

But somewhere in the last couple decades the powers-that-be got smart. They subverted Camp B and Camp B still doesn't even know it. Through the use of nationalism they have generated unquestioning support for police and military for those who do like guns. They've gotten these people onto the side that's pro-indefinite detention and pro drug war. They've gotten these people to fill the ranks of the military and PDs nationwide. They've been programmed to cheer at any waving flag. They've been programmed to support monied interests who wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. They've been programmed to stockpile thirty thousand rounds of ammunition for when "SHTF" but laugh at people who go out to protest.

 

So that if the time ever came that the second amendment was needed to be used for its original intent, the vast majority of those who exercise it would be harmless to the powers, since they would most likely be on the side of tyranny without even knowing it.

 

Anyway, that's enough tin foil for now I suppose.

 

There are plenty of Americans that support the Second Amendment. However, many of them live in rural areas where they can actually shoot and understand what owning a gun is all about. Their population is shrinking while the mass mob living in the cities in continuously bombarded with anti-gun rhetoric, horrific violence, and that is being taught to be antigun. The patient Left is slowly through restriction after restriction and the campaign against, it, it is breeding the thought of gun ownership out of the people.

[Underdog 1,593]

Hitler's Nazi party was also all about the people.

 

Hey, might as well round up all the libs and put them in camps because they don't see it the same way as we do. Might as well kick out every anti gun person there is.

 

The point is, there are people that truly have different view points.

 

Right here in Vegas, was at the craps table one night, talking to the people around me, and after they found out I am here to shoot at nationals, they started asking questions. All is good. One of the guys, whom might be a potential client, is a movie producer from California. He was really interested in what I do, how I came to shoot as a hobby and so forth. While he respected my view points and beliefs, his opinion is that a lot of the basic gun control stuff, such as nics and education requirements for CCW permits are a good idea. Whether I agree with him or not, that is his basic opinion.... and there is absolutely nothing anyone can do, you have to respect other people's view points. Yes, we can bash people all day long about how it is 2a, and so forth, however we live in a country where everyone is entitled to their opinion. By forcing one agenda, we are no better than the communists, dictators, and monarch's of the past.

 

That is what sickens me about where the country is right now. It's not the economy, or the debt, or anything else. It is that people are so hostile that they are ready to rip someone's throat out because they don't agree with you.

 

If everyone only focused on the things they can control, there would be alot more happy people. I do apologize that you are in fear of loosing your job. Short of your company going bankrupt, if you are a good employee, you have nothing to fear. I've been actively looking to hire people for the past 2 years, the biggest problem is finding good people, not my fear of having to let someone go. Maybe I am an eternal optimist... but whats the point of worrying about stuff you cant control nor you can influence?

 

 

What you just wrote is ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. You bash the Tea Party and call them nuts and similar to those that supported the Nazis and brought them into power and you don't know anything about it, really, and then ridiculously, you call for being civil, and you say that that is what bothers you? Wow!

 

We the People do have influence over what is going on. The Tea Party is not hostile. It works in the framework of civility and the rule of law. It is the Left and its continuous attacks and assaults on our laws and traditions, or society and its Constitution. Again, you are misguided. Or perhaps you use the ruse of being a Republican and fiscal conservative to drum up clients. Something just doesn't sit right.

 

If you are sickened by what is going on, then I am sure that you are speaking out against it. Or, would that be an inconvenience. I am sure that you are calling out the liberals for trying to divide the people of our nation in any way that they can and in their attempt to create this hostility and sense of hopelessness. And, you must be supporting the Tea Party that is bringing a varied number of people of all beliefs together against the tyranny and corruption our government would impose on us.

[raz-0 1,261]

I happened on a Tea Party event shortly after I moved to Jackson. No religious aspects to it at all, at least no one was going all Christian White and his Aryan Reggae band against the Evil Muslims. One vocal woman in her 70s reminded me of Miss Hathaway from the Beverly Hillbillies, if Miss Hathaway was a lifelong 3 pack a day smoker. Their hearts were in the right place with the emphasis on shrinking government and taxes, but some of them were a little.......off, shall we say. In an Alex Jones sort of way. At least they are up and awake & participating. Makes a nice counterweight to the wacko left--

 

When the whole tea party thing started, there was a lot more variety to what you would find there. Also, a lot more issues got more attention with a lot more nuance. Now, it's mostly soundbites of inconsistent squawking about government spending and complaining about the personal lives of others. I don't begrudge them their existence, the left has plenty of loons I don't want to see win either, and it is better to ahve a counter balance than not.

 

However, I would still like someone to show up with a well reasoned plan that is not really interested in telling me how I should be living my life. At this point the tea party isn't that, at least on the national level. I'm sure you can still find local groups filled with generally reasonable people, but they aren't getting people like them into office, so it doesn't really matter.

[Underdog 1,593]

When the whole tea party thing started, there was a lot more variety to what you would find there. Also, a lot more issues got more attention with a lot more nuance. Now, it's mostly soundbites of inconsistent squawking about government spending and complaining about the personal lives of others. I don't begrudge them their existence, the left has plenty of loons I don't want to see win either, and it is better to ahve a counter balance than not.

 

However, I would still like someone to show up with a well reasoned plan that is not really interested in telling me how I should be living my life. At this point the tea party isn't that, at least on the national level. I'm sure you can still find local groups filled with generally reasonable people, but they aren't getting people like them into office, so it doesn't really matter.

 

Razo, what do you base this on? The soundbytes you hear are from the mainstream media, and even the establishment Republicans that are happy with the status quo and remaining in power. They don't want the changes that the Tea Party would bring forth. I'd make a bet with you that you have not been to one Tea Party meeting or gathering and that you watch MSNBC.

[bbk 188]

What are you trying to achieve, Patriot Oak? You are obviously a supporter of the Tea Party movement, and while I commend you for your personal ambition-- what do you want to achieve? Yes, I agree that stereotypes and fabricated notions of what the Tea Party is assumed should be squashed, and I think your efforts regarding that are beneficial to everybody. However, I then see notions that indicate that you are more interested in pushing some sort of agenda. I read that yes, it requires action to move forward, but that it is strictly one way of thinking or you are wrong. I'm not criticizing your beliefs, I'm simply saying that your argument is quite erratic. On one hand you say that Tea Party members come from all parts of life (which I agree), but then attack people by simply calling them liberal.

 

To me, while you might have good intentions, you represent what I loathe about the Tea Party. Politics (for what it's worth) is an intimately personal matter. While I do agree that it requires a united group of people to make change, what gives the Tea Party the right to stampede over my personal beliefs, and then call me buzzwords if I do not necessarily agree?

 

I had respect for the Tea Party movement when it's actions executed (upon it's intentions) were to educate the sheep. I'll admit that it still does this at times, but the general push in recent times has been borderline militant. Further, the movement has become far too politicized.

[Underdog 1,593]

My goal is to save this country, period. I believe that its founding on representative self-governance and the supporting of a free market capitalistic society, whether fully realized yet in our brief history, is the best goal to strive for, and the way for me and my children to live and for a society to prosper. This goes hand in hand with my fundamental belief in protecting that freedom, the freedom of the individual.

 

Up until about three years ago, or so, I was not interested in politics. I believed that those that we gave temporary power to to make decisions for us would generally do the right thing, and I could go on with my life and not worry too much about things I couldn't directly influence. I have realized that that has been a big mistake, and that I have been neglecting my duty as a citizen. The Tea Party movement gave me support and helped me to clearly express my beliefs.

 

The Tea Party has not been borderline militant. That is ridiculous. The American people rose up, not just what you consider the Tea Party, and there was a landslide election to change the direction that our country was taking which included a political and economical direction. Those elected officials, put into office by the people, and those representatives have a responsibility to the people that put them there. There needs do be changes in the way things are done in Washington.

 

Additionally, I beleive in personal responsbililty. Nobody owes you anything, and the government should not be able to tax you exhorbitantly and for uncontitutional things. That is a form of slavery. I am not talking about being taxed for legitimate and constitional reasons.

 

Please provide some specific examples in which the grassroots movement has become too politicized. How has the Tea Party stampeded over your personal beliefs?

 

I agree politics should be intimately personal, and for many that has been the case, until they realized that they were being railroaded. Please enlighten me on what specifically lost your respect for the Tea Party?

 

Lastly, please provide me with some guidelines on where exactly the other side would take us? What is our foreign policy plan? How much taxes will we be required to pay? How much regulation, interferance, and power over our lives will the government assume? When will enough be enough?

[bbk 188]

You read what I wrote wrong, or I was unclear. I do not disagree with the principles of the Tea Party-- I do indeed agree actually. I am just not a fan of the direction of the movement as a physical entity. To use political talking-heads as the face of the movement does in fact politicize it. If that is not the intention, why hasnt it been addressed?

 

And as for my initial question, I was asking your intentions of sharing your perspective on this forum. Sharing the information pertinent, such as upcoming events and general info and clearing up misconceptions. But why does it feel like you're preaching?

 

Again, i have nothing against you or your beliefs (that I closely share). This just might not be the best place to actively push your beliefs on others. If I'm being vague, my apologies as I'm typing this from my phone while trying to copy down notes in the lecture I'm attending.

[Underdog 1,593]

Let me first say I HATE, LOATHER DESPISE the term MAINSTREAM media....do you think FOX is ANY less mainstream than say CNN????

 

I think news in general from the days of the first press has a bias, both left leaning and right leaning..............all depends on the writer...

 

As an example.....MSNBC CNN etc...tend to lean left.... FOX etc tend to lean right....

 

I have not found ONE news outfit that is not biased in some way.... The problem is MOST if not all news outlets today are not NEWS outlets at all, rather they are OPINION shows...sure there is a smattering of 'news' in there but it appears the goal is to provide more political commentary than anything...

 

Look we have a duty to sift the wheat from the chaffe.... If you rely on JUST fox news or JUST MSNBC for your 'new' you are doing yourself a disservice.

 

Again you illustrate my point.... What is the PRIME DIFFERENCE between Hannity and Maddow???????????????????

 

 

 

NOTHING....... Albeit one leans left, one leans right.... nuff said..

 

Most of us can make a distinction from propaganda, both left and right, and actual news stories....

 

 

 

I am sure you can cite DATA for those ascertations as to political makeup of america....

 

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree with some of your statements yet I agree with others....if I did not have to run out at the moment I would engage you in this further, however that being said.

 

Your failing to realize ONE fine point.....

 

Politics is NOT about the people.

Government is NOT about framework for organization.

 

It is about power and control.

 

Politics and government whether controlled by left leaning and/or right leaning PEOPLE, is solely based on controlling the masses, gaining power and influence and inflating the old pocketbook. I do not care one wit if you are a Leftist, NEOCON, Tea Party member FASCIST, NAZI, COMMUNIST, whatever... IT IS ALL ABOUT CONTROL, POWER and GREED....

 

Government and Politics in ALL its 'glorious' or not so 'glorious' forms thoughout the ages has had the same issues time and again. Once those that gain power and influence over another, by whatever means or scope, will not relinquish it without a struggle.

 

IMHO the true test of the 'tea party' will be if they get elected in any area of the country to see how long THEY will hold onto power.... I venture a guess I will not be shocked by the fact that they will NOT give up their power once they have some influence either.

 

The pendulum swings both ways and is always swinging, the country is not in any worse state morally, ethically, politically etc than it was say 50 years ago, 70 years ago

etc.... The right screams at the left, the left screams at the right....it never ending and they are all full of mierda del toro....

 

The current landscape of a "two" party system as we are currently setup is silly....... why do we NEED political parties anyway?? The governmental process of checks and balances as a whole is NOT working within the framework of the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches and needs to be revamped....due to the power grab and greed by those that CURRENTLY have power or WANT power, both left and right. The ideals of Civil SERVICE are long lost............

 

I would go so far as to say that ALL the current Representatives need to be recalled and tossed out, as well as the judicial and executive branches and we start from scratch with all new elections....... FROM The PEOPLE, and not the groomed select few...

 

Our Consitutional Republic CAN work, once we make it HARDER for those in power to HOLD it.......it is unconscionable that you can have a senator from a state or a congressman from a district for ANYMORE than a few terms....

 

State your ideas in an open and free way, meet with your opponents, listen to the PEOPLE, go do a job, once done move along and allow the next person to step up and keep moving forward....

 

Here are some statistics from 2009, but there is more to be found. And, the numbers have probably increased toward converative a few points:

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/120857/conservatives-single-largest-ideological-group.aspx

 

I agree with a lot that you say. However, the Tea Party movement is about limiting the government and its power. I don't think that everyone in office is corrupt. I believe that there are many moral people. I do believe that the current interpretation of the way the sytem is setup is to attract those that just want power and control.

 

I do not think that what we are experiencing is just business as usual, though.

[Underdog 1,593]

You read what I wrote wrong, or I was unclear. I do not disagree with the principles of the Tea Party-- I do indeed agree actually. I am just not a fan of the direction of the movement as a physical entity. To use political talking-heads as the face of the movement does in fact politicize it. If that is not the intention, why hasnt it been addressed?

 

And as for my initial question, I was asking your intentions of sharing your perspective on this forum. Sharing the information pertinent, such as upcoming events and general info and clearing up misconceptions. But why does it feel like you're preaching?

 

Again, i have nothing against you or your beliefs (that I closely share). This just might not be the best place to actively push your beliefs on others. If I'm being vague, my apologies as I'm typing this from my phone while trying to copy down notes in the lecture I'm attending.

 

 

I apologize if all of you feel that I have been preaching. I don't want to turn anyone off that is remotely interested in this discussion.

 

The logical extension of the grassroots movement is to put people in power that might actually respresent the beliefs and principles espoused by the movement. If those politicians do not do that then they should be voted out of office. And, those politicians may not necessarily represent the Tea Party in all actions.

 

The Key, as you said, is to resist any kind of national identity. And, in many ways, this is in place. The Tea Party organizes and affects outcomes at the local level first and foremost.

 

The founders were clear on the belief that government officials were citizens and would go to Washington for a time and then go back home to manage their affairs. I don't think they ever envisioned, or imagined there to really be career politician, especially in the House. There should be amendment dealing with this.

[raz-0 1,261]

Razo, what do you base this on? The soundbytes you hear are from the mainstream media, and even the establishment Republicans that are happy with the status quo and remaining in power. They don't want the changes that the Tea Party would bring forth. I'd make a bet with you that you have not been to one Tea Party meeting or gathering and that you watch MSNBC.

 

You'd lose money.

 

But look at people that are getting tea party group endorsements during primaries and getting the nod for races. But when your platform is cut spending, but not defense, medicare, or social security, you are going to be hard pressed to cut more than about 15% of the budget assuming you fire everyone else. It's not a rational position, but rather more of the unicorn pooping rainbows type of solution.

 

I like freedom. I don't mind responsibility. I want fiscally sane policies, and I want people to be left the hell alone by government. When I deal with the teaparty, it's a very face-palm kind of experience. I don't have much use for the causal racism, homophobia, and absolute certainty that everyone will be happy with the religion they think is most awesome. Especially in NJ, this wasn't so bad, but as the more rational fade into the background, this stuff is getting more concentrated, even here.

[StarWarsGeek45 5]

I think the big problem is you went to a Tea Party in NJ.

 

Go to a Tea Party south of the Mason-Dixon line, I think you will change your tune about the sorts of people it tends to attract.

 

I especially love seeing old geezers shouting about cutting government spending. Everyone else's government spending, that is. Government spending is just fine when it comes to Social Security, Medicaid, and their various other benefits. And not to mention the defense budget.

[CageFighter 236]

I think the big problem is you went to a Tea Party in NJ.

 

Go to a Tea Party south of the Mason-Dixon line, I think you will change your tune about the sorts of people it tends to attract.

 

let me see......are you claiming they're RACIST??

[Old School 611]

You'd lose money.

 

But look at people that are getting tea party group endorsements during primaries and getting the nod for races. But when your platform is cut spending, but not defense, medicare, or social security, you are going to be hard pressed to cut more than about 15% of the budget assuming you fire everyone else. It's not a rational position, but rather more of the unicorn pooping rainbows type of solution.

 

I like freedom. I don't mind responsibility. I want fiscally sane policies, and I want people to be left the hell alone by government. When I deal with the teaparty, it's a very face-palm kind of experience. I don't have much use for the causal racism, homophobia, and absolute certainty that everyone will be happy with the religion they think is most awesome. Especially in NJ, this wasn't so bad, but as the more rational fade into the background, this stuff is getting more concentrated, even here.

 

 

OMG I never knew!!!!!!!!! Those bastards...

[tbtrout 141]

 

 

Hey, might as well round up all the libs and put them in camps because they don't see it the same way as we do. Might as well kick out every anti gun person there is.

 

Finally words with actions. Round em up and kick em out. My favorite sentence in the whole damn thread, closely followed by Han shot first.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

 

 

I believe in the 2a. I believe in private firearms ownership. Do I believe that we should all be allowed to run around with full auto mac10's, no. Do I believe that there should be licensing, education, training to own firearms, yes

But I also believe that there should be 100% ccw nationwide if I provide the training insurance competency etc set on specific guidelines. THE PROBLEM IS THE EXTREMES ARE DICTATING THE AGENDA

 

It's a right, not a privilege. What do you NOT understand? I should be able to buy said Mac 10 in full auto in a SBR and with lots of stick mags AND carry it outside, TODAY!

Driving is a privilege, where rules and regulations are set since it's not a RIGHT.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Patriot Oak, I'm behind you brother.

[Guest]

It's a right, not a privilege. What do you NOT understand? I should be able to buy said Mac 10 in full auto in a SBR and with lots of stick mags AND carry it outside, TODAY!

Driving is a privilege, where rules and regulations are set since it's not a RIGHT.

 

 

Insert sound from jeopardy. Sorry wrong answer.

 

Self defense is a right. Freedom of speech is a right. Freedom of religion is a right. Pursuit of happiness is s right.

 

Are you implying that God enumerated you with the right to own a firearm??? Can that be equated to him allowing you to own a car???

 

Sorry but firearms ownership in this day and age is a privilege ...... Like it or not....

 

And until you treat it as such and work within those parameters you will be considered on the fringe and discounted as a gun toting wacko.

 

Not that I disagree mind you but ur statement is slightly overzealous IMO.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Insert sound from jeopardy. Sorry wrong answer.

 

Self defense is a right. Freedom of speech is a right. Freedom of religion is a right. Pursuit of happiness is s right.

 

Are you implying that God enumerated you with the right to own a firearm??? Can that be equated to him allowing you to own a car???

 

Sorry but firearms ownership in this day and age is a privilege ...... Like it or not....

 

And until you treat it as such and work within those parameters you will be considered on the fringe and discounted as a gun toting wacko.

 

Not that I disagree mind you but ur statement is slightly overzealous IMO.

 

Um, WRONG ANSWER Mr. Maks

 

"The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" What part of that do you not understand sir?

[Guest]

Um, WRONG ANSWER Mr. Maks

 

"The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" What part of that do you not understand sir?

 

Typing on an iPhone not fun.

 

Ur preaching to the choir however please use the entire language of the 2a if ur gonna make a citation not just the part that suits ur arguement

 

Your the example I cited before ur the extreme. The polar opposite of the gun ban lobby. Do you really really in your heart of hearts believe that it's ok for u to run around with a mac10 etc as u describe???

 

Cmon brother..... Be realistic.

 

I'm a gun guy. But I believe in sensible licensing. The 2a has been argued ad nauseum and will continue to be. I see both sides of the argument.

 

 

Again my point is I believe more folks are center leaning on most issues.