University of california pepper spraying..

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Yep, it's easy to find some humor in this and degrade those who protest, UNTIL the day comes that you find something worth sticking up for and have your rights violated. Imagine you and (20) of your buddies march to Trenton to protest the current firearms laws. All you guys are doing is sitting on the sidewalk with some signs or chanting or some **** like that. Then, out of nowhere, without provocation, your group gets pepper sprayed. Of course, you'll get ridiculed in the press by persons like yourself. Those that could give two shits about the current firearm laws in NJ and who think everything is fine the way it is. Everyone has a cause. Only a few go to these measures to stand up for their cause. It isn't up to us to judge the importance or validity of their cause or protest, assuming it stays peaceful.

 

See my point?

 

That's stupid. Marching and protesting doesn't change anything in my eyes. You want real change, get organized and get people elected.

 

It's also hard to be sympathetic to a group of individuals who don't even know what they want...

[HavocMan 13]

The cop that sprayed these people should have been fired on the spot! He was clearly not being threatened.

 

So the only time LE can use OC is if they are being threatened? LMAO!

 

[djg0770 481]

Back before pepper spray they would have brought out the fire trucks. Still seems like a decent idea. Kind of a 3 fer 1, clean up the streets, clean up the protesters, give them a shower...

 

 

ETA - pretty soon you're gonna be able to sue the police for a hang nail.

[KpdPipes 388]

Back before pepper spray they would have brought out the fire trucks. Still seems like a decent idea. Kind of a 3 fer 1, clean up the streets, clean up the protesters, give them a shower...

 

 

ETA - pretty soon you're gonna be able to sue the police for a hang nail.

Fire hoses would have resulted in broken bones.....back before pepper spray they probably would have used CS/CN..with maybe a little DM (Vomit Gas) chaser, as well as a liberal helping of Hickory.

[djg0770 481]

Yep, it's easy to find some humor in this and degrade those who protest, UNTIL the day comes that you find something worth sticking up for and have your rights violated. Imagine you and (20) of your buddies march to Trenton to protest the current firearms laws.

 

We don't march unless we're line up in "ranks"...

 

 

All you guys are doing is sitting on the sidewalk with some signs or chanting or some **** like that. Then, out of nowhere, without provocation, your group gets pepper sprayed. Of course, you'll get ridiculed in the press by persons like yourself. Those that could give two shits about the current firearm laws in NJ and who think everything is fine the way it is. Everyone has a cause. Only a few go to these measures to stand up for their cause. It isn't up to us to judge the importance or validity of their cause or protest, assuming it stays peaceful.

 

See my point?

 

Umm - have you NOT seen a Tea Party gathering? Funny - no blocking traffic, just general obeying the law and the general directions of the Police.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_protests#Taxpayer_March_on_Washington

 

Tea Party protests

Part of response to excessive government social and fiscal policies

Date 2009 to Present

Location United States

Status Ongoing

Goals Government adherence to the Constitution, opposition to excessive taxation

Characteristics

 

Non violent protest

Civil disobedience

Picketing

Demonstrations

Internet activism

Direct action

 

Arrests/Injuries/Deaths

 

Arrests: 0 Injuries: 0 Deaths: 0

[ExpendableRaj 1]

Arrests/Injuries/Deaths

 

Arrests: 0 Injuries: 0 Deaths: 0

 

Achievments: 0

 

Fixed that for you.

[djg0770 481]

Fixed that for you.

 

As compared to Occupy? LOL right. Game Over. Thanks for playing - try again. Credits: 0

[NicePants 58]

While the officers may have taken things too far and should face punishment, goddamn if I'm not getting tired of all this "Occupy" bs. I was only aware of the wall street and atlanta ones, and now they're popping up everywhere. These people are not accomplishing anything. It's like protesting nothing has become a social activity like hanging out at a party.

[Malsua 1,422]

Fixed that for you.

 

I suppose if you consider the pasting the democrats got in 2010 "0 achievement", you'd be right.

[ExpendableRaj 1]

As compared to Occupy? LOL right. Game Over. Thanks for playing - try again. Credits: 0

 

Why must it be one or the other?

 

Occupy and the Tea Baggera are both a joke. Old and fat on social security vs. young and stupid on welfare.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I think this is a joke... The use of non lethal force to clear defiant trouble makers should not IMO even be questioned...

 

Of they were compliant and force was used then yeah maybe a problem.. But that was not the case...

[Soju 153]

A couple things.

 

Is passive non compliance the same thing as resistance?

 

Does being wrong and not complying mean that the use of pepper spray is right?

 

I'm not asking rhetorically. I'd like to hear other peoples opinions. I'm not quite sure how I feel about the whole thing.

 

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Evelyn Beatrice Hall/Voltaire

[vladtepes 1,060]

I think you have every right in the world to protest... But when your protesting obstructs others and you are told to disperse... Enough is enough.. Most cities will allow you to protest in an organized way with permits... Leo is just trying to maintain order.. At least with spray there is no physical contact and ideally they leave and no one is hurt permanently...

[PK90 3,573]

IMO, this would be within the NJ guidelines and lawful to use the spray as it was used after an arrest was made and prior to physical force.

[bulpup 98]

There is not enough tasering. I enjoy some good tasering video.

 

Anyway, everyone knows, or should know rather, that Occupy Wall Street was in protest of Wall Street; Its recent history of self serving destructive trades and mortgage practices. Not to mention the bail outs of banks for a few billion dollars. Those asking for help with their student loans point to the bail outs of banks and, in terms of the protest, I can certainly see the linkage i.e., if banks and companies that made horrible financial decisions can get billions of dollars, why can't an individual that can't find a job because of those same banks get one? If you look at is as hippies asking a handout - you might be right in some cases, but you are missing the point if you don't see the protester's rhetorical question.

Sure, you can find the one off that got a degree in puppetry, or at least write about it with no link or attribution, but after all the crap that the banks pulled and the bail-outs, why is asking for student loan bail-out the crazy part? (Heck, I would like to protest the lowering of my transit flex spending account from $240 a month max to $160. Why the heck would the lower the transit max and raise the Parking max? Who the F' thought that one up?)

 

 

 

I am in the interesting position of seeing many sides of this via friends and family.

• My friends in the NYPD either sympathize, would rather just go home, or love the overtime.
  
• My wife's college roommate got a PhD in Physics, can't find a job but at least is still working as a nurse in Louisiana. She wants help from the govt. with her student loans.
  
• And my brother in law, A PhD in math that works for a hedge fund that will clearly state to you that although the message has been watered down by the interviewing of the stupid people in the protest, that smart part - the message- is getting through and is actively discussed at his firm and organizations he belongs to.
  

 

Between OWS and the Tea Party people are starting to talk in the places where it matters.

Whether they can self-police themselves into a better Wall Street, phht, never going to happen.

 

 

And lastly, Those guys that locked arms when asked to move did it to make a scene. THey did it so they would be in the news. Its a tactic. It worked. Better than blogging. If you think they were not preparded to get beaten with a stick to get people to pay attention you would likely be mistaken. There is something kinda ballsy about that.

 

 

ANyway

[Malsua 1,422]

The problem is we shouldn't have bailed out AIG or any of the banks, nor should we bail out any individual who took on a huge debt load. All AIG and bank bailouts did was kick the problem further down the road.

 

Now the former CEO of AIG is suing the federal government for acquiring assets during the bailout. Assets that were seized as collateral. If that isn't some irony there, I don't know what is.

Investors in a failing company sue for the assets that taxpayers got for making the company whole. My guess is they'll get something and once again Taxpayers get fooked.

 

I believe AIG should have failed, it would have forced all these gambling institutions such as Goldman to fail. They've turned Wall Street into their own personal casino and they're not only betting in it, they're the house. The only winner is them, the losers are the rest of us. It all needs flushed.

[ar15bang 0]

[this_is_nascar 162]

Back on topic.

 

 

 

 

The cops should be fired TODAY!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

The protesters were on the ground complying. There is zero need to pepper spray them. Who cares if you think they are correct in their cause they have the right. Do you want to be denied free speech because someone doesn't hold your opinion.

 

 

As already mentioned, I completely agree with you.

[this_is_nascar 162]

That's stupid. Marching and protesting doesn't change anything in my eyes. You want real change, get organized and get people elected.

 

It's also hard to be sympathetic to a group of individuals who don't even know what they want...

 

 

Which part do you find stupid? My example? My opinion? You didn't really answer the question based on my example. What would your reaction be and how would you feel?

[this_is_nascar 162]

While the officers may have taken things too far and should face punishment, goddamn if I'm not getting tired of all this "Occupy" bs. I was only aware of the wall street and atlanta ones, and now they're popping up everywhere. These people are not accomplishing anything. It's like protesting nothing has become a social activity like hanging out at a party.

 

And that, right there, is was the only point I was trying to make. I agree with you and I'm getting tired of it too.

[Wolfy 51]

You have enough cops why not just pull them apart and arrest? If all they were doing was blocking a sidewalk and not being physical.

 

I ask as a serious question?

[this_is_nascar 162]

You have enough cops why not just pull them apart and arrest? If all they were doing was blocking a sidewalk and not being physical.

 

I ask as a serious question?

 

Yep, exactly my point. Until you attempt to remove them and are met with resistance, he had no right to do the pepper spray thing. If they attempted to move or remove them and were met with forceful resistance, then all bets are off.

[tony357 386]

why even bother them just walk around them and ignor them and let them do their thing..

[Malsua 1,422]

why even bother them just walk around them and ignor them and let them do their thing..

 

I was thinking, couldn't you just spread a big tarp on them? They'll leave eventually.

 

The scoops would be more fun.

 

[DevsAdvocate 112]

You have enough cops why not just pull them apart and arrest? If all they were doing was blocking a sidewalk and not being physical.

 

I ask as a serious question?

 

Because the police can get hurt that way. It's easier to deal with these tools when they're incapacitated.

[HavocMan 13]

You have enough cops why not just pull them apart and arrest? If all they were doing was blocking a sidewalk and not being physical.

 

I ask as a serious question?

 

Do a Google Image search for "hippy". Do you really want to touch that? ...or maybe try shooting it with OC first?

[vladtepes 1,060]

Because the police can get hurt that way. It's easier to deal with these tools when they're incapacitated.

 

spray them with an irritating substance that causes no long term ill effects?

engage in a physical struggle that will go good only knows where?

 

this whole situation was likely prefaced with..

"if you do not move we are going to be forced to spray you.. now disperse.."

 

I am pretty sure there was some warning.. like when the cop pulled out the jumbo size can of spray.. that pretty much says.. LEAVE NOW.. if you don't you are asking for it IMO..

 

I doubt the cop jumped out of a truck.. ran up on them and just started to hose them down..

[DevsAdvocate 112]

spray them with an irritating substance that causes no long term ill effects?

engage in a physical struggle that will go good only knows where?

 

this whole situation was likely prefaced with..

"if you do not move we are going to be forced to spray you.. now disperse.."

 

I am pretty sure there was some warning.. like when the cop pulled out the jumbo size can of spray.. that pretty much says.. LEAVE NOW.. if you don't you are asking for it IMO..

 

I doubt the cop jumped out of a truck.. ran up on them and just started to hose them down..

 

The video was Rodney Kinged anyways... they only showed the OC spray and none of the lead-up to it.

 

The police issued their warning, the protesters defied it. They got sprayed, separated, and arrested. No one got hurt, a few may have been arrested and released, and that was that.

[vladtepes 1,060]

The police issued their warning, the protesters defied it. They got sprayed, separated, and arrested. No one got hurt, a few may have been arrested and released, and that was that.

 

 

that in my mind sums up the situation.. and it should have ended there..

[HavocMan 13]

100% right on the money Vlad.

 

Watch the video carefully folks - one of the hippies actually DOES get up & take off AS SOON as the cop breaks out the first can of OC (white ball cap, lower right).