Anything wrong with driving around with an unloaded long gun in the trunk?

[DevsAdvocate 112]

No legal degree. No legal experience. Just an ability to READ.

It just irks me when I see advice on this forum that could lead someone into an expensive legal pickle. Telling somone that exceptions under 2C:39-5 allow them to do something is being irresponsible with their money, their careers, and possibly even their liberty.

 

Rather than start bickering over this. I will make it really simple:

I will PayPal you $100 if you can cite a NJ permanent statute that permits possession of a firearm. I have read them many times and I guarantee that all you will find are exceptions. There are no permissions.

 

Unfortunately, an exception simply exempts someone from prosecution under one statute. It does not protect him from prosecution under another statute or in any way give him permission.

 

You got it backwards, cite me the statute which says I cannot possess an unloaded rifle in my car. Laws can't permit you to do shit, only prevent you. Or in the case of NJ, prevent with exceptions.

[TheDon 3]

In response to my supposed nit-picking over the difference between an act “not being in violation of a specific statute” and an act being “completely legal” let me propose the following.

 

We are all in agreement that you should not be charged with unlawful possession of a long gun under 2C:39-5, c. (1) if you have a NJFPID card. The question is: is it “completely legal” for you to drive around with an unloaded rifle in the trunk of your car (assuming it is properly cased, separate from ammo, the whole shebang).

 

So, let’s says you are driving around with your AR-15 as described above and you get rear-ended at a stop sign. Your car is not drivable. The police show up and decide to have you towed. You now need to divulge to the LEO that you are in possession of an unloaded long gun. Are you “completely legal” with your NJFPID “get out of jail free” card?

1. As elaborated previously in this thread, if the accident happens on the grounds of an educational institution, you could be charged with violating 2C:39-5, e.
   
2. You need to choose your words carefully when the LEO inquires as to why you are driving around with an AR-15 in your trunk. If you admit that you store it there for any reason other than hunting, target practice, or other “legal use” suitable for an AR-15, you could be charged with violating 2C:39-5, d.
   
3. If you admit to LEO that you are storing the rifle for WTSHTF, you may be charged under 2C:39-4, a. (1)
   
4. If the accident happens on Federal property like Fort Dix, you may be charged under Federal statutes.
   
5. If the accident happens in a city that has local statutes governing possession, you may be charged under municipal code.
   
6. In any case you will likely be detained and taken to the police station in handcuffs, placed in a cell, and sit for quite some time while they do a complete background check to make sure you are not a prohibited person (2C:39-5, h.)
   
7. I am sure I am not even coming close to covering all the bases here. Who knows what laws are out there about government buildings (for which a parking garage might be attached), bank properties, etc.
   

So, ergo, therefore, hence, and for the above reasons, the exception within 2C:39-5e that protects you from prosecution under that specific statute does NOT make if “completely legal” for you to drive around with a long gun in your trunk.

 

I am done now. I’ll just sit back and watch.

Edited May 7, 2012 by TheDon

[PK90 3,573]

Okay. You bored me halfway through and I stopped reading. Make up all the scenarios you want. That is not what is being said. It is perfectly legal to possess said unloaded long gun. Why divulge? I stopped reading at this point.

[johnp 45]

Okay. You bored me halfway through and I stopped reading. Make up all the scenarios you want. That is not what is being said. It is perfectly legal to possess said unloaded long gun. Why divulge? I stopped reading at this point.

 

+1

[matty 810]

Egg-zacktly! Put in in yer car, unloaded, and KEEP YER YAP SHUT about it. No one will know or care, unless you BLAB all over the INTERWEBZ about it and some LIB goes all !!OMG OH NOEZ!! CHEAP HUNGARIAN AK47 IN CARS GONNA KIL BABBY!!

 

 

 

Okay. You bored me halfway through and I stopped reading. Make up all the scenarios you want. That is not what is being said. It is perfectly legal to possess said unloaded long gun. Why divulge? I stopped reading at this point.

[vladtepes 1,060]

In response to my supposed nit-picking over the difference between an act “not being in violation of a specific statute” and an act being “completely legal” let me propose the following.

 

We are all in agreement that you should not be charged with unlawful possession of a long gun under 2C:39-5, c. (1) if you have a NJFPID card. The question is: is it “completely legal” for you to drive around with an unloaded rifle in the trunk of your car (assuming it is properly cased, separate from ammo, the whole shebang).

 

So, let’s says you are driving around with your AR-15 as described above and you get rear-ended at a stop sign. Your car is not drivable. The police show up and decide to have you towed. You now need to divulge to the LEO that you are in possession of an unloaded long gun. Are you “completely legal” with your NJFPID “get out of jail free” card?

1. As elaborated previously in this thread, if the accident happens on the grounds of an educational institution, you could be charged with violating 2C:39-5, e.
   
2. You need to choose your words carefully when the LEO inquires as to why you are driving around with an AR-15 in your trunk. If you admit that you store it there for any reason other than hunting, target practice, or other “legal use” suitable for an AR-15, you could be charged with violating 2C:39-5, d.
   
3. If you admit to LEO that you are storing the rifle for WTSHTF, you may be charged under 2C:39-4, a. (1)
   
4. If the accident happens on Federal property like Fort Dix, you may be charged under Federal statutes.
   
5. If the accident happens in a city that has local statutes governing possession, you may be charged under municipal code.
   
6. In any case you will likely be detained and taken to the police station in handcuffs, placed in a cell, and sit for quite some time while they do a complete background check to make sure you are not a prohibited person (2C:39-5, h.)
   
7. I am sure I am not even coming close to covering all the bases here. Who knows what laws are out there about government buildings (for which a parking garage might be attached), bank properties, etc.
   

So, ergo, therefore, hence, and for the above reasons, the exception within 2C:39-5e that protects you from prosecution under that specific statute does NOT make if “completely legal” for you to drive around with a long gun in your trunk.

 

I am done now. I’ll just sit back and watch.

 

 

grasping at straws also clutching at straws

1. trying to find some way to succeed when nothing you choose is likely to work Jerry, grasping at straws, searched the backup tapes from last week, looking for the missing files.

2. trying to find reasons to feel hopeful about a bad situation She thinks he might still be interested because he calls her now and then but I think she's clutching at straws.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

In response to my supposed nit-picking over the difference between an act “not being in violation of a specific statute” and an act being “completely legal” let me propose the following.

 

We are all in agreement that you should not be charged with unlawful possession of a long gun under 2C:39-5, c. (1) if you have a NJFPID card. The question is: is it “completely legal” for you to drive around with an unloaded rifle in the trunk of your car (assuming it is properly cased, separate from ammo, the whole shebang).

 

So, let’s says you are driving around with your AR-15 as described above and you get rear-ended at a stop sign. Your car is not drivable. The police show up and decide to have you towed. You now need to divulge to the LEO that you are in possession of an unloaded long gun. Are you “completely legal” with your NJFPID “get out of jail free” card?

1. As elaborated previously in this thread, if the accident happens on the grounds of an educational institution, you could be charged with violating 2C:39-5, e.
   
2. You need to choose your words carefully when the LEO inquires as to why you are driving around with an AR-15 in your trunk. If you admit that you store it there for any reason other than hunting, target practice, or other “legal use” suitable for an AR-15, you could be charged with violating 2C:39-5, d.
   
3. If you admit to LEO that you are storing the rifle for WTSHTF, you may be charged under 2C:39-4, a. (1)
   
4. If the accident happens on Federal property like Fort Dix, you may be charged under Federal statutes.
   
5. If the accident happens in a city that has local statutes governing possession, you may be charged under municipal code.
   
6. In any case you will likely be detained and taken to the police station in handcuffs, placed in a cell, and sit for quite some time while they do a complete background check to make sure you are not a prohibited person (2C:39-5, h.)
   
7. I am sure I am not even coming close to covering all the bases here. Who knows what laws are out there about government buildings (for which a parking garage might be attached), bank properties, etc.
   

So, ergo, therefore, hence, and for the above reasons, the exception within 2C:39-5e that protects you from prosecution under that specific statute does NOT make if “completely legal” for you to drive around with a long gun in your trunk.

 

I am done now. I’ll just sit back and watch.

 

Now... why would I do that? I'll just tell the LEO that I gotta get my hockey bag outta the car and other personal belongings.

[Bob B 103]

No legal degree. No legal experience. Just an ability to READ.

It just irks me when I see advice on this forum that could lead someone into an expensive legal pickle. Telling somone that exceptions under 2C:39-5 allow them to do something is being irresponsible with their money, their careers, and possibly even their liberty.

 

Rather than start bickering over this. I will make it really simple:

I will PayPal you $100 if you can cite a NJ permanent statute that permits possession of a firearm. I have read them many times and I guarantee that all you will find are exceptions. There are no permissions.

 

Unfortunately, an exception simply exempts someone from prosecution under one statute. It does not protect him from prosecution under another statute or in any way give him permission.

 

2C:39-5 Unlawful possession of weapons.

c.Rifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

(2)Unless otherwise permitted by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

...and

 

2C:58-4. Permits to carry handguns

a. Scope and duration of authority. Any person who holds a valid permit to carry a handgun issued pursuant to this section shall be authorized to carry a handgun in all parts of this State, except as prohibited by section 2C:39-5e. One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns owned by the holder thereof, but the permit shall apply only to a handgun carried by the actual and legal holder of the permit.

 

 

Please donate the $100 to a pro-gun organization.

[ianargent 7]

You beat me to it.

[Teufelhunden 6]

A question just occurred to me. Would it be legal to have a long gun in your car if the car is parked & not occupied?

[HarryLee 0]

A question just occurred to me. Would it be legal to have a long gun in your car if the car is parked & not occupied?

I have a better question. If you are stopped for a minor traffic violation, are you legally obligated to answer the officer if he or she ask if you have any firearms in the auto? Can they search your car if you take the 5th? If they can search your trunk & find a locked long case, can they break it open? Are you obligated to unlock your long case? Can they impound your car or confiscate your long case if you do not cooperate?

[johnp 45]

I have a better question. If you are stopped for a minor traffic violation, are you legally obligated to answer the officer if he or she ask if you have any firearms in the auto? Can they search your car if you take the 5th? If they can search your trunk & find a locked long case, can they break it open? Are you obligated to unlock your long case? Can they impound your car or confiscate your long case if you do not cooperate?

 

:popcorn:

[BarkNBite 15]

Wrong.................you can hunt chucks in NJ with a high power scoped rifle........ .25 Caliber or less centerfire.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

I have a better question. If you are stopped for a minor traffic violation, are you legally obligated to answer the officer if he or she ask if you have any firearms in the auto? Can they search your car if you take the 5th? If they can search your trunk & find a locked long case, can they break it open? Are you obligated to unlock your long case? Can they impound your car or confiscate your long case if you do not cooperate?

 

Who cares, it's legal, and why have the case locked if your just traveling in state. Closed and fastened and unloaded is all that's required..

[ianargent 7]

Remember, it be unconstitutional in NJ for a police officer to even request to search your vehicle without reasonable and articulable suspicion, at which point he didn't need your consent. Recent case extended that to a disabled vehicle on the highway.

 

(I am on mobile, do not have cite handy. Google will find the relevant cases pretty easily.)

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Anyone familiar with the NY laws regarding this (NYC and NYS)? I've done some searching and can't find anything. I'm thinking of keeping my unloaded SG in my trunk (as described as "Plan B" by another poster), but I travel to NYC a couple of times a month or so to visit family, and I'm concerned about the conseequences if I forget to remove it.

[RecessedFilter 222]

Wow, I just spent 5mins reading this full thread and have come to a conclusion...why even drive around with an unloaded long gun in your car? Just cause? Sorry but I just find that a little too much.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Wow, I just spent 5mins reading this full thread and have come to a conclusion...why even drive around with an unloaded long gun in your car? Just cause? Sorry but I just find that a little too much.

 

But what about the occasional Zombie attack or this new crazy of naked people so hungry they eat people right in the street where they see them?? Huh, tell me about that!!!

[Sixtytwo327 14]

But what about the occasional Zombie attack or this new crazy of naked people so hungry they eat people right in the street where they see them?? Huh, tell me about that!!!

 

LOL a gun with no bullets is just a club. It's not going to help against face eaters hopped up on bath salts, or whatever the kids are into these days

 

I vote "Shaun of the Dead" - cricket bat.

[Qel Hoth 33]

 

 

LOL a gun with no bullets is just a club. It's not going to help against face eaters hopped up on bath salts, or whatever the kids are into these days

 

I vote "Shaun of the Dead" - cricket bat.

 

Who said no bullets? It just needs to be unloaded. They never said you can't have your trunk full of loaded mags.

[Midwest 28]

Anyone familiar with the NY laws regarding this (NYC and NYS)? I've done some searching and can't find anything. I'm thinking of keeping my unloaded SG in my trunk (as described as "Plan B" by another poster), but I travel to NYC a couple of times a month or so to visit family, and I'm concerned about the conseequences if I forget to remove it.

 

NY State you should not have a problem. NYC is a different matter, you might be able to use the FOPA if passing through the city. Driving around Gotham City with a unloaded rifle in the trunk is not a good idea.

 

http://www.nyfirearms.com/forums/laws-politics/25881-carrying-long-guns-passing-through-nyc.html

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

LOL a gun with no bullets is just a club.

 

I would never consider loading a shotgun that I had in my trunk, because it's a serious crime, a felony if I'm not mistaken. But just in case I were ever to come upon an angry mob and it were life or death, I could do an emergency load in seconds, and then feed the mag tube at my leisure. Not that I would ever do that, but just sayin'.

 

Wow, I just spent 5mins reading this full thread and have come to a conclusion...why even drive around with an unloaded long gun in your car? Just cause? Sorry but I just find that a little too much.

 

RF, yes I agree that it's probably silly, but since there's no provision for CCW in this state, it seems like this might be a possible option.

 

Midwest, thanks for the link. I was pretty sure I had heard that it was NG in the Big Apple, but I searched that same site and could not come up with the specifics.

[leahcim 680]

Wow, I just spent 5mins reading this full thread and have come to a conclusion...why even drive around with an unloaded long gun in your car? Just cause? Sorry but I just find that a little too much.

It would give you greater leeway for trips to the range, hunting, etc. than if you are transporting a handgun. E.g. would allow you to make unreasonable and unnecessary deviations or combine a range trip with other errands.

[JrzyGuy30 0]

Hate to hash up an old topic (but refrained from starting a whole new one)... Based on this thread, I "could hypothetically" keep a .22lr rifle (rimfire obviously) in my trunk, in a case closed, and then possibly ammunition in another locked case legally in my trunk? And if I were ever in a scenario where the officer asks why I have it, it could be as simple as I was on my to my parents house in PA to go clear out some varmin from their property after whatever I was doing?

 

[Qel Hoth 33]

Hate to hash up an old topic (but refrained from starting a whole new one)... Based on this thread, I "could hypothetically" keep a .22lr rifle (rimfire obviously) in my trunk, in a case closed, and then possibly ammunition in another locked case legally in my trunk? And if I were ever in a scenario where the officer asks why I have it, it could be as simple as I was on my to my parents house in PA to go clear out some varmin from their property after whatever I was doing?

 

Why bother with seperate cases and locking them? So long as there is no ammo IN the gun you're good . Unless you leave NJ, then you need to consider state law and/or Fopa.

[jamesbod 0]

Hate to hash up an old topic (but refrained from starting a whole new one)... Based on this thread, I "could hypothetically" keep a .22lr rifle (rimfire obviously) in my trunk, in a case closed, and then possibly ammunition in another locked case legally in my trunk? And if I were ever in a scenario where the officer asks why I have it, it could be as simple as I was on my to my parents house in PA to go clear out some varmin from their property after whatever I was doing?

 

What are you going to say if the police ask how long you had the long gun in your trunk? Are you going to say 1 week or 1 year?

[johnp 45]

Hate to hash up an old topic (but refrained from starting a whole new one)... Based on this thread, I "could hypothetically" keep a .22lr rifle (rimfire obviously) in my trunk, in a case closed, and then possibly ammunition in another locked case legally in my trunk? And if I were ever in a scenario where the officer asks why I have it, it could be as simple as I was on my to my parents house in PA to go clear out some varmin from their property after whatever I was doing?

 

>Why do you have an unloaded perfectly legal long gun in your trunk?

 

It is as simple as I am well within my rights to do so. You don't need to make up any BS excuses. Keep it unloaded, in a closed case, and the chances of your trunk actually being searched for some reason are astronomical.

[EchoMirage 137]

Hate to hash up an old topic (but refrained from starting a whole new one)... Based on this thread, I "could hypothetically" keep a .22lr rifle (rimfire obviously) in my trunk, in a case closed, and then possibly ammunition in another locked case legally in my trunk? And if I were ever in a scenario where the officer asks why I have it, it could be as simple as I was on my to my parents house in PA to go clear out some varmin from their property after whatever I was doing?

 

ammo does NOT have to be separate

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Only issues i see, what happens if your car is stolen?

[Qel Hoth 33]

Only issues i see, what happens if your car is stolen?

 

You inform them that your rifle wad stolen as well. Shouldn't be an issue so long as the car wasn't stolen from a school lot or something similar.