Police in Colorado do a mass roundup looking for armed suspect

[Soju 153]

I'm sorry, but this bothers me. Why worry when you're doing something LEGALLY. Do you worry when you're driving your car legally, shopping for groceries legally, or walking your dog legally? NO. So why on earth would you worry about carrying a gun legally? Make sure you know the law, make sure your actions follow the letter of the law, and you have no reason to be concerned about what you're doing.

 

Probably because a lot more people get hassled or even arrested for carrying a gun legally than any of the other activities you mentioned. Reality is far different from simply what is and isn't legal.

 

I could probably post close to 100 videos of people carrying legally in which they were at the very least, hassled about it, ranging all the way up to them being threatened with execution and arrested. Can't say I have seen many people arrested because they ran into the wrong person while buying salad dressing at the grocery store.

[Underdog 1,593]

Again, we don't know the whole story, and I little trust ABC to get it right. However, this appears to be the police overstepping their boundaries. This is continued conditioning of the American people by our government to accept pure authority. Those officers had no right whatsoever to detain and HANDCUFF random citizens. However, if the people are going to bend over and take it, so be it. I think every one of those officers should be detained at that intersection for the full addition of time that they made these citizens wait. So, if they made the full 30 adults wait for two hours, then they should each stand there for 60 hours that way. And, the supervisor that made the call should get double. Enough is enough. These "peace officers" are given a lot of power, and seemingly with little discretion.

[Underdog 1,593]

What if they did something like this when your small child had been abducted, and were successful in finding them? Would you feel the same?

 

None of that matters. It is ridiculous. But, I will play along.... What if i was taking my sick child somewhere or going to pickup my sick mother, or what if I was trying to get home to supervise my child who was going to arrive home from school or a friend's house? Hello. And, by the way, why would I need to be handcuffed if I am just being detained and questioned? This is abusive and repulsive.

[db1775 4]

I'm sorry, but this bothers me. Why worry when you're doing something LEGALLY. Do you worry when you're driving your car legally, shopping for groceries legally, or walking your dog legally? NO. So why on earth would you worry about carrying a gun legally? Make sure you know the law, make sure your actions follow the letter of the law, and you have no reason to be concerned about what you're doing.

 

The reason I pointed this out is because they mentioned int he story that the police just happened to find the suspects in the very last car they searched. One thing the story does not say is how many cars were in line before and or after this car with the guns in it? The police were given no information on the suspects whatsoever. So, they arrested the guys with the guns in the car.

 

Playing the "What if" game here, what if the first guy in line was carrying, or the guy in the vey middle of the pack? Would the cops have just stopped there? Based on the fact that they said they received no other description of the criminals, they would have had to, right? Why keep searching? And for how long?

 

Again, the facts as they are told here are spotty. How many cars were searched? How many were at the intersection? Did they search all four directions of hte intersection or only one? Were cars still rolling up tot he intersection while the searching was going on? It just piqued my interest to think of what their procedure would have been had they found an innocent guy with a gun in his car ten or twenty cars before the robbers. And of course, if they find two cars with guns, wouldn't they have to take both of them in? Just to play it safe?

[BlueLineFish 615]

Here is what is so frustrating. People think the police do these things because they are looking to violate people rights. THEY ARE NOT!!,! There are a lot of situations that come up where there is no protocol for. One takes the best course of action in a seconds notice and you live with the decision you made. This wasn't some random stop everybody checkpoint rounding up people to take them to camps. THEY ARE LOOKING FOR AN ARMED ROBBER! Sorry if their work interferes with your life while they are trying to protect you. Again most cops don't go out on patrol looking to violate people's rights and inconvenience them for hours at a time. Enough with the tin foil hat police state takeover nonsense. You can play the what if game all week but when you have seconds to make a decision you can't think about that.

 

 

Now I guess I can get ready for all the arrogant asshole cop remarks that usually follow my opinion.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Here is what is so frustrating. People think the police do these things because they are looking to violate people rights. THEY ARE NOT!!,! There are a lot of situations that come up where there is no protocol for. One takes the best course of action in a seconds notice and you live with the decision you made. This wasn't some random stop everybody checkpoint rounding up people to take them to camps. THEY ARE LOOKING FOR AN ARMED ROBBER! Sorry if their work interferes with your life while they are trying to protect you. Again most cops don't go out on patrol looking to violate people's rights and inconvenience them for hours at a time. Enough with the tin foil hat police state takeover nonsense. You can play the what if game all week but when you have seconds to make a decision you can't think about that.

 

 

Now I guess I can get ready for all the arrogant asshole cop remarks that usually follow my opinion.

 

Got my Popcorn ready,, you forgot to ask, what about if the robber slipped through and LE on the scene didn't do what they did and he got away and did more robberies and killed someone.. Like you said, easy for all of us to Monday morning QB this when your not in the millisecond mode of decision making.

[ChrisJM981 924]

Here is what is so frustrating. People think the police do these things because they are looking to violate people rights. THEY ARE NOT!!,! There are a lot of situations that come up where there is no protocol for. One takes the best course of action in a seconds notice and you live with the decision you made. This wasn't some random stop everybody checkpoint rounding up people to take them to camps. THEY ARE LOOKING FOR AN ARMED ROBBER! Sorry if their work interferes with your life while they are trying to protect you. Again most cops don't go out on patrol looking to violate people's rights and inconvenience them for hours at a time. Enough with the tin foil hat police state takeover nonsense. You can play the what if game all week but when you have seconds to make a decision you can't think about that.

 

 

Now I guess I can get ready for all the arrogant asshole cop remarks that usually follow my opinion.

 

Blue I feel for you. You're in a tough position, often a decision has to be made, and you don't have time to plan it out. I deal with the complete opposite. Nobody in supervision is willing to make a decision so the situation degrades into something much worse than it originally was. With that said I'm glad it didn't get ugly. I don't know how many police were on scene, but I'm glad with that many people in a confined area (intersection) it didn't turn into a shootout.

 

If it was an abducted child that's more black and white to me. You check the car, no missing person, on your way. Bank robbers stole money. They're dumb and will eventually get caught. The bank is insured. Again there is too much info missing here.

[Soju 153]

Sorry if their work interferes with your life while they are trying to protect you.

 

That would be fine. Except if my work 'interferes' with an officers life, I got to jail. The opposite is not true. If there was no double standard I wouldn't have an issue. But the fact that police and other government officials appear to have been given extra rights is upsetting.

 

And there is no tin foil hat involved to see that we are becoming a police state and the only nonsense is the nonsense going on. All you have to do is pay a little attention to things (and laws that are being passed) to see it is true. Heck, just read some of the threads on this forum.

 

Unless actions (just or unjust) of police and other government officials are treated the same as the general public, I will continue to have a problem.

 

Here is a scenario for you.

 

You hear a group of people screaming. A man starts to run from the group. The group of people yell to stop him, and that he just committed some crime. As he runs toward you, you tackle him to the ground.

 

1. He is an innocent person trying to escape from the criminal, and the crowd had mistaken him. He breaks his arm and sustains a concussion from your tackle. You are an off-duty police officer just trying to help and do the right thing. What are the consequences?

 

2. He is an off duty police officer chasing the criminal. The crowd had mistaken him for the criminal. He breaks his arm and sustains a concussion from your tackle. You are a regular citizen just trying to help and do the right thing. What are the consequences?

[BlueLineFish 615]

Scenario 1

 

No issues because of a duty to act as an off duty LEO. You were acting in good faith.

 

Scenario 2

 

Did off duty LEO have credentials displayed. Was he identifying himself. You as a civilian dont have a duty to act but if you acted in thia case and didnt know the individual was LEO then you are covered due to his failure to identify.

[vjf915 456]

So, they arrested the guys with the guns in the car.

 

“Once officers got to his car, they found evidence that he was who they were looking for,” Fania said. “When they searched the car, they found two loaded firearms.”

 

It doesn't say that they were arrested for the guns, the guns were an addition. They were looking for two men who had just robbed a bank. The evidence they found was probably...straps of cash.

[HINCHMAN 4]

The thing these idiots in govt do not realize is that when they do this, they may feel good about it for the moment. Once multi-million dollar lawsuits start, then they dont feel so good about it. Going forward this town will rely on the cost savings the constitution provides to government....

[Zed's_Dead 16]

The thing these idiots in govt do not realize is that when they do this, they may feel good about it for the moment. Once multi-million dollar lawsuits start, then they dont feel so good about it. Going forward this town will rely on the cost savings the constitution provides to government....

 

As a lawyer, I wish there were as many multi-million dollar lawsuits out there as you guys seem to think they are. The insurance lobby has everyone bamboozled.

[bbk 188]

Most of you guys probably aren't familiar with the town, Aurora, CO. Its a suburb of Denver, and not one of the nice ones. The notorious portion of Colfax Ave runs through it, and along with the shady auto body shops, plasma donation centers, and strip joints, the area houses the majority of the impoverished, as well as gangs. Arguably, the town also houses the majority of the illegal immigrants that make their way up from the south.

 

That's not to say the town is all bad. The outer fringe portions are pretty upscale, as well as there being a large military presence with an active duty military installation located just on the edge of town (while still being 30 minutes from downtown Denver)-- one of the lesser known ones in the state of CO. This is of course speaking from personal experience, having spent my career out there...

 

So, the question becomes, in a town split between a population that rarely brings legal issues up with authorities, and a military community (and those in between), who would take a stand? I'm not saying that people shouldn't, just asking who would.

[High Exposure 5,671]

UPDATE: Court Ruling on Mass Traffic Stop in Colorado Post Bank Robbery

 

The federal judge issued his ruling to defendant's motion to suppress all evidence and statements related to the traffic stop. It is 33 pages long, so I am not going to post it here, but here is the info if you want to look it up:

 

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLORADO

Judge William J. Martínez

Criminal Action No. 12-cr-00258-WJM

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

Plaintiff,

v.

CHRISTIAN PAETSCH,

Defendant.

 

In a nutshell, the judge allowed in all of the evidence except statements made after the defendant lawyered up.

 

The judge did a decent analysis of the traffic stop, the invasiveness and duration of the stop, the PC to search the defendant's vehicle and the statements made to the officers.

 

And here is a quick news story about the court ruling:

 

http://www.aurorasentinel.com/...n-mass-traffic-stop/

 

AURORA | Aurora police didn’t violate the law when they stopped 25 cars and detained dozens during a search for bank robbery suspect in June, a federal judge has ruled.

 

The June traffic stop at East Iliff Avenue and South Buckley Road sparked a firestorm from critics who said police violated the rights of innocent motorists by ordering them out their cars at gunpoint at a busy intersection. Court documents said police stopped the cars because a GPS tracker in showed the robber was in one of the cars.

 

Christian Paetsch was arrested on bank robbery charges during the traffic stop and his lawyer argued that because the stop was unconstitutional, the bulk of the evidence against Paetsch — including money stolen from the bank, a disguise and two pistols — should be tossed.

 

But in a 30-page ruling handed down Tuesday, United States District Court Judge William J. Martinez said that while the stop was out of the ordinary, police acted appropriately.

 

Martinez said some statements Paetsch made to police about the guns in his car won’t be allowed at trial because the officers improperly questioned him after he asked for a lawyer. But the guns themselves, which police found when they searched Paetsch’s SUV, will be allowed as evidence.

 

Paetsch’s trial is scheduled for December.

 

Federal prosecutors said Paetsch, a former music teacher, robbed the Wells Fargo Bank at East Hampden Avenue and South Chambers Road a day after a banker there refused to renegotiate his loan.

[Respect2A 0]

We are so screwed. More so by the day.