Hollowpoint / OTM bullets can no longer be shipped to New Jersey?

[Ghostrider 0]

Does anyone know if the state has changed their position on allowing hollowpoint / OTM bullets to be shipped to New Jersey? I placed an order this morning with HSM for some of their 75 grain .223 and 5.56 ammo. I received all call earlier this afternoon that they would not be able to ship the ammo to me as they have been advised by the NJ State Police that they can no longer ship hollowpoint ammo to New Jersey. They were told if they did, they would be arrested. Looking at the NJ State police website, no where does it say hollowpoint ammo cannot be shipped to a NJ resident. So does anyone know if something has changed?

 

http://www.njsp.org/...ire_hollow.html

 

 

Provided certain conditions are met, a sportsman may transport and use hollow point ammunition. There are no restrictions preventing a sportsman from keeping such ammunition at his home.

N.J.S.A 2C:39-3f(1) limits the possession of hollow nose ammunition. However, there is a general exception that allows for the purchase of this ammunition but restricts the possession of it to specified locations. This exception provides that:

(2) Nothing is sub section f (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land . . . [

N.J.S.A

26:39-3g (2)].

Thus a person may purchase this ammunition and keep it within the confines of his property. Sub section f (1) further exempts from the prohibited possession of hollow nose ammunition "persons engaged in activities pursuant to

N.J.S.A

2C:39-6f. . . ."

N.J.S.A

26:39-3f. (1).

Activities contained in N.J.S.A 26:39-6f. can be broken down as follows:

1.A member of a rifle or pistol club organized under rules of the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and which filed its charter with the State Police;

2.A person engaged in hunting or target practice with a firearm legal for hunting in this State;

3.A person going directly to a target range, and;

4.A person going directly to an authorized place for "practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions."

As with other ammunition and firearms, a sportsman would have to comply with the provisions of N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f and g when transporting hollow nose ammunition to a target range. The ammunition should be stored in a closed and fastened container or locked in the trunk of the motor vehicle in which it is being transported. The course of travel should be as direct as possible when going to and leaving from the target range with "only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances." N.J.S.A 2C:39-6g.

If the sportsman's club member plans to hunt with a rifle and use hollow nose ammunition in a state where this is permitted, he must comply with the provisions of U.S.C.A. 926A and N.J.S.A 2C:39-6(f) and (6)(g), which is consistent with the federal law, in transporting the firearm and ammunition. The firearm should be unloaded and neither the firearm nor the ammunition should be readily accessible from the passenger compartment. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the firearm and the ammunition should be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or the console. 18 U.S.C.A. 926A.

In addition, the sportsman should have a valid hunting license in his possession from the state in which he plans to hunt and should be familiar with that state's gun laws. N.J.S.A 2C:39-6(f)(2) requires a person hunting in this State to have a valid hunting license in his possession while traveling to or from the hunting area. Hunting with hollow nose ammunition is permitted in New Jersey. In the case of a New Jersey resident traveling to another state to hunt, it logically would follow that the hunting license would be from the state where the hunter is going. Although the federal statute does not require possession of a hunting license, it does require that the person transporting the firearm be going to a state where possession of that object is lawful. A valid hunting license from that state effectively supplies the proof.

These conditions for use and transport of hollow nose ammunition are consistent with the legislative intent to restrict the use of such ammunition to a limited number of people. It is well established that in construing a statute exceptions are to be "strictly but reasonably construed, consistent with the manifest reason and purpose of the law." Service Armament Co. v. Hyland, 70 N.J. 550, 558-559 (1976). The State Supreme Court has "characterized the Gun Control Law as 'highly purposed and conscientiously designed toward preventing criminal and other unfit elements from acquiring firearms while enabling the fit elements of society to obtain them with minimal burdens.'" Id. at 559.

[kman 56]

Evidently under Christie absolutely nothing has changed.

[ruger9 0]

So, is intimidation (through misinformation) SOP with some law enforcement?

 

(and please, don't start the "don't bash the LEOs" stuff... I'm not doing that, but have a recent experience where a Trooper may be giving similar false information to my FFL.)

[Daedalus 19]

Where is HSM? NJ? And a NJSP Trooper is going to arrest them? Uh-huh

[KramD52 0]

Something's not right about this. It sounds as if HSM (not sure what company either) is out of state based on the OP's description. I would assume its NJSP Firearms bureau who would've contacted them. If that were the case then they would've contacted all mail order places, or at a minimum the most popular ones. Almost sounds like the company doesn't want to be bothered with the sale and is using NJSP as an excuse. Like I said before, something is amiss here.

[ruger9 0]

I'm quickly beginning to agree.... just like CA, alot of retailers just seem to not want to ship to NJ just so there's no questioning/risk. Seems an awful lot of dealers on Gunbroker will ship to NJ tho... but usually not CA.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Who is "HSM"? Anyway, they were given incorrect info by the NJSP.

 

There is no law that I'm aware of preventing an out-of-state retailer from shipping hollowpoint ammo into NJ. There is a law that says if you *RECEIVE* hollowpoint ammo in NJ and do not have a valid FID then you have a committed a crime.

 

The are other retailers currently shipping hollowpoint ammo into NJ without issue.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

This is pure BS. How can the NJSP enforce NJ laws outside of NJ - answer: They can't. That however is a moot point since there is no law that says you cannot buy HP ammunition. Please take note, this is rifle ammunition so you don't even need a FPID. The vendor is blowing you off and doesn't want to take the heat. Send them an e-mail and tell them that if they don't want to do business with residents of NJ, just say so, and stop blowing smoke up your a$$.

 

Adios,

 

PIzza Bob

[lunker 274]

This is pure BS. How can the NJSP enforce NJ laws outside of NJ - answer: They can't. That however is a moot point since there is no law that says you cannot buy HP ammunition. Please take note, this is rifle ammunition so you don't even need a FPID. The vendor is blowing you off and doesn't want to take the heat. Send them an e-mail and tell them that if they don't want to do business with residents of NJ, just say so, and stop blowing smoke up your a$$.

 

Adios,

 

PIzza Bob

 

Thanks for putting it plainly (and more eloquently than I would've managed) Bob.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Is this the HSM (Hunting Shack Munitions) OP is talking about ?:

 

http://thehuntingsha...tail/index.html

[Wojo 98]

I stopped doing business with SG...Sportsman Guide because of the ammo thing and not selling me a sight adjustment tool for an AR. Lots of other companies that are willing to do business with you. Send them an email and let the know you are also notifying your hunting club, shooting range members and ALL the internet boards you visit to boycott them.

[RecessedFilter 222]

Wait can I get more info about the sportsmans guide thing? What will they not ship to NJ, any type of ammo or just HP's? I was about to make a large order with them tonight but may hold off now...so if anyone can explain, please do!

[Babyface Finster 45]

Wait can I get more info about the sportsmans guide thing? What will they not ship to NJ, any type of ammo or just HP's? I was about to make a large order with them tonight but may hold off now...so if anyone can explain, please do!

 

The shipped me .357 SJHP's a few weeks ago.

[Rifleman1 32]

Does anyone know if the state has changed their position on allowing hollowpoint / OTM bullets to be shipped to New Jersey? I placed an order this morning with HSM for some of their 75 grain .223 and 5.56 ammo. I received all call earlier this afternoon that they would not be able to ship the ammo to me as they have been advised by the NJ State Police that they can no longer ship hollowpoint ammo to New Jersey. They were told if they did, they would be arrested. Looking at the NJ State police website, no where does it say hollowpoint ammo cannot be shipped to a NJ resident. So does anyone know if something has changed?

 

" they have been advised by the NJ State Police that they can no longer ship hollowpoint ammo to New Jersey" - Get it in writing. Nothing has changed that I'm aware of. Still ordering JHP ammo and having it shipped to NJ.

[Wojo 98]

Maybe they changed, but I was, key work, was a long time customer.

[bhunted 887]

SG are just plain asinine about anything assault weapon related going to NJ and the NJSP have a habit of making laws up as they go along. SG still ships ammo afaik...

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

[vladtepes 1,060]

This is pure BS. How can the NJSP enforce NJ laws outside of NJ - answer: They can't. That however is a moot point since there is no law that says you cannot buy HP ammunition. Please take note, this is rifle ammunition so you don't even need a FPID. The vendor is blowing you off and doesn't want to take the heat. Send them an e-mail and tell them that if they don't want to do business with residents of NJ, just say so, and stop blowing smoke up your a$$.

 

Adios,

 

PIzza Bob

 

 

223/556 IS a pistol caliber is it not?

[revenger 473]

"OTM" sorry, I'm acronym challenged. what does it mean?

[alowerlevel 77]

"OTM" sorry, I'm acronym challenged. what does it mean?

Open Tip Match

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

@vladtepes - no, it is not. Are there handguns chambered for it - yes. But...

 

2C:58-3.3 "Handgun ammunition" defined; sale, purchase, etc., regulated; violation, fourth degree crime.

<a name="{1BD1}">

1. a. As used in this act, "handgun ammunition" means ammunition specifically designed to be used only in a handgun. "Handgun ammunition" shall not include blank ammunition, air gun pellets, flare gun ammunition, nail gun ammunition, paint ball ammunition, or any non-fixed ammunition.

 

 

@comsec1 - OTM = Open Tip Match

[PK90 3,570]

Troll Alert !!!!

[Ghostrider 0]

HSM = Hunting Shack Munitions. I couldn't find anything online to verify the statement that was made to me. So I just went ahead and ordered some 75 grain PRVI Partizan from Palmetto State (which just happened to be on sale). I wanted to order the HSM as it uses the Hornady T1 bullet, ASYM ammo is also loaded with Hornady's T1 bullet, but was more expensive.

[halbautomatisch 60]

I'm quickly beginning to agree.... just like CA, alot of retailers just seem to not want to ship to NJ just so there's no questioning/risk. Seems an awful lot of dealers on Gunbroker will ship to NJ tho... but usually not CA.

A lot of FFLs don't want to ship to CA because the CA DOJ requires them to fill out some kind of CA paperwork to send any firearms there. This is not required in the other 49 states AFAIK.

[vladtepes 1,060]

@vladtepes - no, it is not. Are there handguns chambered for it - yes. But...

 

2C:58-3.3 "Handgun ammunition" defined; sale, purchase, etc., regulated; violation, fourth degree crime.

<a name="{1BD1}">

1. a. As used in this act, "handgun ammunition" means ammunition specifically designed to be used only in a handgun. "Handgun ammunition" shall not include blank ammunition, air gun pellets, flare gun ammunition, nail gun ammunition, paint ball ammunition, or any non-fixed ammunition.

 

 

@comsec1 - OTM = Open Tip Match

 

I did not realize that because the rules are different with AP rounds..

[KpdPipes 388]

I'm quickly beginning to agree.... just like CA, alot of retailers just seem to not want to ship to NJ just so there's no questioning/risk. Seems an awful lot of dealers on Gunbroker will ship to NJ tho... but usually not CA.

Ca has some screwy thing that Any FFL who even SHIPS to Ca has to have some kind of State Permit that costs something on the order of $200, Oh and by State law Ca FFL's can't recieve Firearms directly from individuals only from other FFL's. Very few people want the hassle of dealing with Ca, so they just have a blanket policy of not shipping there. While NJ isnt QUITE as bad, it is getting there. Sportsmans Guide will not sell ANY item intended for use on the AR platform to NJ..not even a Pin, or an Iron Sight, There are a couple of companies that wont sell any handgun ammo here also. Midway was wavering back and forth for a while, I dont know what their policy is currently. As for HSM, That's all I use in my .300 Win, their Match Ammo IMO is on par with Black Hills in Quality and Consistency, and the price pointing is about Half of what the so-called "High End" companies are getting. I wasnt aware that they sold ANY ammo directly, I thought they only sold through distributors. Their stuff is carried by Cabelas, and I buy mine through Sniper Central.

[TheDon 3]

OP,

Personally, I have no problem with HP ammo being shipped directly to my doorstep. If your retailer will not ship to NJ, then I recommend switching to one who will. We can recommend several that have no issues shipping to NJ are very reasonable prices: NatchezSS, PalmentoStateArmory, TheSportsmansGuide, just to name a few.

 

Arrested, No. Sued, could be. I heard a tale of the NJAG threatening some midwestern retailer with a law suit for shipping HP ammo without first obtaining a copy of the recipient's FPID. Not sure if that is truth or FUD.

[TK421 2]

What I don't understand is why these companies don't tell these states to rub it in their chests. If I am a business residing in FL I am subject to federal and Florida law. All interstate commerce is governed and regulated solely by the federal government. If someone from a state orders something they can not legally posses then they should ultimately be subject to the laws by which they choose to be governed. I see no reason for any retailer to be fearful of out of state prosecution for violating laws to which they are not subject. It is all BS.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

@vladtepes - no, it is not. Are there handguns chambered for it - yes. But...

 

2C:58-3.3 "Handgun ammunition" defined; sale, purchase, etc., regulated; violation, fourth degree crime.

<a name="{1BD1}">

1. a. As used in this act, "handgun ammunition" means ammunition specifically designed to be used only in a handgun. "Handgun ammunition" shall not include blank ammunition, air gun pellets, flare gun ammunition, nail gun ammunition, paint ball ammunition, or any non-fixed ammunition.

 

 

@comsec1 - OTM = Open Tip Match

 

Man, i tried searching for it but i can't find it... Didn't they(feds/BATF) update a list of pistol rounds, to include .223 recently along with 6.5, 6.8?

 

I remember a manufacturer getting raided for making AP handgun ammo in 223 a year or so ago.

[halbautomatisch 60]

What I don't understand is why these companies don't tell these states to rub it in their chests. If I am a business residing in FL I am subject to federal and Florida law. All interstate commerce is governed and regulated solely by the federal government. If someone from a state orders something they can not legally posses then they should ultimately be subject to the laws by which they choose to be governed. I see no reason for any retailer to be fearful of out of state prosecution for violating laws to which they are not subject. It is all BS.

The out of state companies aren't worried about prosecution, they're worried about lawsuits. Look at how aggressively NJ is defending OGAM, as one of many examples, NJ spares no expense when it comes to limiting your second amendment rights. All NJ needs to do is bankrupt (or just threaten to) a few out of state companies, and the rest will capitulate.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

The out of state companies aren't worried about prosecution, they're worried about lawsuits. Look at how aggressively NJ is defending OGAM, as one of many examples, NJ spares no expense when it comes to limiting your second amendment rights. All NJ needs to do is bankrupt (or just threaten to) a few out of state companies, and the rest will capitulate.

 

Forgive my ignorance, but how would the state of NJ file a civil lawsuit? I could see if a prohibited person purchased ammo, and used it in a crime, and a victim or whoever filed civil action for selling the ammo to them, but that could happen anywhere..