Updates from the NJ SAFE Hearing

[mcbethr 42]

I just got back home from the NJ SAFE hearing in Camden. I got a chance to speak and did my little song and dance about our transportation laws.

 

I noticed a couple of things:

 

#1. There were cops out the wazoo there, including two State Troopers posted at ceremonial parade rest in front of the panel. More than one person mentioned the irony of the troopers being there to protect the panelists. Honestly, I think they were genuinely afraid of us gun owners.

 

#2. There were about 100 people there. About 1/3rd were black and Hispanic Camden residents. I don't think a single resident asked for more gun laws. They asked for more jobs, better schools and mental health care.

 

#3. There were legislators there. Senator Norcross was there along with Assemblywoman Lampitt. This is a good opportunity to actually meet with your legislators one on one.

 

#4. Bryan Miller of Ceasefire was there. He was one of two foaming-at-the-mouth anti-gun guys there. Everybody else who spoke was either pro-gun or neutral.

 

#5. Keep your remarks under 3 minutes in length. Don't expect to say a long speech. They will cut you off at 3 minutes and you will be asked to sum up. Practice your speech in front of people. Read it like you are talking to someone, not reading from a speech.

 

#6. Please leave the hunter camo and cowboy hats at home. Dress like you are going to work, and not to the rodeo or WWE event. Whenever a pro 2A guy got up there wearing hunter camo or a cowboy hat the Star Ledger photographer went into overdrive.

 

#7. You will be recorded by the news in both video and audio. Don't say anything that will make you look like James Yeager.

 

#8. Don't be James Yeager.

 

#9. Give reasonable short answers instead of pontificating about the second amendment. I spoke about one issue - transportation in the context of Hurricane Sandy and how it was illegal to remove my guns from my home and take them to my brother in law's house. Pick a simple subject such as collapsible stocks, and explain exactly why its bad and the remedy for it.

 

#10. Get there early. You have to sign your name on a list to speak and that list is collected at the start of the event and you will not get a chance to put your name on it once it is collected.

 

#11. Seriously. Don't be James Yeager up there.

 

That's about it for now. Did anybody else on the board make it?

[Black Ops 1]

Good advice...

 

Here is the meeting info for tomorrow 2/6 in Monmouth:

 

Dear Mr. D,

 

Thank you for your recent email regarding gun rights. I understand your concerns.

 

A comprehensive look is needed at our society to see why such tragic incidents like the Newtown shooting occur. That includes a look at mental health and violent video games and movies. I agree we can also improve the quality of background checks.

 

Governor Christie just announced the creation of the NJ SAFE Task Force. The panel is made up of a cross section of the community, including James Romer from Monmouth Medical Center. He has 30 years experience in the mental health field. The Task Force will hold a public hearing in Monmouth County on February 6, from 3 p.m. - 5 p.m., at Brookdale Community College in Lincroft. Perhaps you would like to attend if your schedule permits.

 

The Task Force has 60 days to report back to the Governor and I anxiously await its findings. Once again, thank you for reaching out to me with your concerns.

 

 

Very Truly Yours,

Assemblywoman Caroline Casagrande

11th Legislative District

[Kaiser7 33]

...So, do you think it went well for us?

 

I've been anxious all night....

[mcbethr 42]

...So, do you think it went well for us?

 

*shrug* I mean it wasn't a disaster. I think it says something when speaker after speaker gets up and is pro 2A. The blacks and Hispanics were occasionally histrionic. One Muslim man actually gave a very powerful speech when he basically said that Camden is a garden, but when you look here all you see is weeds. He didn't call for more gun control. He called for more jobs and better schools.

 

But I have to tell you, every time a pro 2A person got up there and opened up a scroll of demands, the panel just rolled their eyes. These people are not used to being lectured. They don't want to be lectured on the constitution. They are looking for concrete opinions on what might solve problems.

[Sonnylee 20]

Is there any pro gun members on the task force board?

Or is it a mob picked jury...

 

[Bob B 103]

Ryan, what did Mr. Miller ask for?

[mcbethr 42]

Is there any pro gun members on the task force board?

Or is it a mob picked jury...

 

There are no pro-gun people that I know of. I think they are all anti-gun or neutral.

 

One person asked : "Is anyone on the board a gun owner or has fired a gun?"

The chairman said : "We're not here to discuss that, we are here to take comments from the public."

The guy said: "I'll take that as a no."

 

And he was probably right.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

#8 is key, especially this Friday

[mcbethr 42]

Ryan, what did Mr. Miller ask for?

 

He didn't ask for anything. He stated who he was, that he lead a Christian anti-violence group and he rattled off statistics. That was pretty much it. It was more of a "do something" speech.

 

The most powerful speakers were the people who posed a genuine solution. Quite honestly, these were the black and Hispanic people from Camden who were saying: "Guns aren't the problem, jobs are the problem. Mental health care is the problem" and so on.

 

A few Pro 2A guys brought up carry, but they did it after pontificating about the Second Amendment for two minutes. You've lost them after 2 minutes. Get up there, state the problem, offer the solution and why it is good and sit the heck down.

[Bob B 103]

Good. Thank you, Ryan.

[Kaiser7 33]

He didn't ask for anything. He stated who he was, that he lead a Christian anti-violence group and he rattled off statistics. That was pretty much it. It was more of a "do something" speech.

 

The most powerful speakers were the people who posed a genuine solution. Quite honestly, these were the black and Hispanic people from Camden who were saying: "Guns aren't the problem, jobs are the problem. Mental health care is the problem" and so on.

 

A few Pro 2A guys brought up carry, but they did it after pontificating about the Second Amendment for two minutes. You've lost them after 2 minutes. Get up there, state the problem, offer the solution and why it is good and sit the heck down.

 

We need to make sure to get this advice out there.

 

Though I don't agree with it, the Constitutional aspect of the argument doesn't hold much weight---Look at Assemblywoman Jasey's response.

 

If we get there and use facts and statistics that support our position, THAT is what they aren't expecting. Do that, and just as importantly, look for studies which refute the claims of the antigunners. Counter their usual arguments.

[RUTGERS95 890]

Make sure you say something along these lines; there are over 1mm firearm owners in the state, we are using social media to monitor and discuss your votes and leanings. Do you know how many are in your district?

 

this has worked in my dealings thus far

[mcbethr 42]

I was going to point out that there are more gun owners in NJ than there are soldiers in all of the Armies of Europe (Russia exc

Make sure you say something along these lines; there are over 1mm firearm owners in the state, we are using social media to monitor and discuss your votes and leanings. Do you know how many are in your district?

 

I like this!

[SgtToadette 59]

Mcbethr I really liked you testimony. It seemed the panel was genuinely interested in your perspective. I agree that people need to preach less and offer more solutions.

[mcbethr 42]

Mcbethr I really liked you testimony. It seemed the panel was genuinely interested in your perspective. I agree that people need to preach less and offer more solutions.

 

Thank you. We are salesmen. Our pitch has got to be better than their pitch.

[Kaiser7 33]

Make sure you say something along these lines; there are over 1mm firearm owners in the state, we are using social media to monitor and discuss your votes and leanings. Do you know how many are in your district?

 

this has worked in my dealings thus far

 

Next thing you know they'll demand a list of all firearms owners in their district.

[Maksim 1,504]

Did you have to sign up to speak or no? I will be at the Brookdale event tomorrow and would love to get a chance to address the panel.

[mcbethr 42]

Did you have to sign up to speak or no? I will be at the Brookdale event tomorrow and would love to get a chance to address the panel.

 

Yes, you have to sign your name on a list to speak. Get there early.

[222 3]

Hey thank you very much!

[vass 5]

I was the guy that asked them if any of them owned or had ever fired a gun to which they refused to respond.

 

After watching them sit there sort of blankly staring, not taking notes, and rarely seeming interested unless they were being yelled at or made to look foolish, I would say that they do not really seem interested at all in what we have to say, but need to at least look like they made an effort.

 

I only saw 2 pro gun control people and neither were very convincing or memorable in my opinion; everyone else was anti gun control.

 

I offered up some bullet points as to the failures of gun control and a few suggestions like 100% prosecution of gun crime and mandatory maximum sentences for persons commmiting a crime with a gun, but I honestly don't think that they could care less as to my suggestions.

 

My overall take on this meeting was that the task force has no clue what theyre doing, doesnt really want to hear about what we think, and is pretty much going to do whatever they want, however it was encouraging to see literally 90% of speakers were against any more gun control. I think if there had been 3-500 pro gun speakers instead of maybe 95 this meeting would have gone a lot further toward sending a message to Christie. I really feel like we need to have a much higher turn out for the next 2 meetings if we're going to avoid any more gun control laws.

 

On to what to do for the next ones.

 

You get 3 minutes to talk, you sign a form when you get there and are taken in order to speak for your 3 minutes. That being said I would strongly suggest the follwoing

 

-get as many people as you can muster to go to the next 2 talks

-Seriously get all of them, I was expecting several hundred people and there was maybe 100, get off your butt and get to those meetings

-get there early!

-organize into groups ahead of time either by this forum or whatever means you can

-sign your names in a row

-each person in your group select an aspect of gun control ahead of time, like the one guy with his transportation of firearms stuff, or me with the fact that no one on the board thats going to offer recommendations on guns, owns or has ever fired a gun.-- Break it down into segments of a larger argument, and then each go one after the other.

-be passionate and nearly agressive, dont be a milk toast forgettable speaker, but don't be Yeager either

-practice ahead of time to make sure you can make your point in 3 minutes

-Don't dress like the stereotypical gun owner with your camo and cowboy hat

-Record it with your phone or whatever and put it on youtube, otherwise your commentary will never leave that room unfiltered by the media.

 

This is the video of me at the meeting, my buddy took it with my phone and had his thumb on the mic so the sound is all messed up, but if it helps you get an idea for what the meetings will be like, then cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD1I2e-myVo&feature=youtu.be

 

Good luck guys.

[mcbethr 42]

I was the guy that asked them if any of them owned or had ever fired a gun to which they refused to respond.

 

Yeah, it needed to be said...

[mcbethr 42]

Good luck guys.

 

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

[SgtToadette 59]

Oh no! I'm in the video!

 

Good thing your elbow covered my face so the government's facial recognition software can't get me. That was a close one!

[ChrisJM981 924]

There are a few questions I'm having difficulty finding answers to:

 

How many people a year in NJ die as a result of a rifle wound vs handgun?

 

What percentage of shootings are gang/drug related?

 

When was the last time someone was bayoneted to death in NJ?

 

I would bring up:

 

the process of getting a FID in NJ. I'm contemplating bring a copy of my town's illegal information waiver as an exhibit of what law abiding gun owners go through to get a firearm.

 

There are 1 million gun owners in NJ. Who will be responsible for handling the logistics of in home inspections for firearm purchase? (I forget the bill number)

 

Nobody makes 5 rd magazines therefore most handguns would be rendered unusable.

 

And finally: What percentage of legally owned firearms were used in the commission of a crime in NJ? Cryin Bryan can't yell and scream about lax laws in other states causing guns to be on the streets of NJ AND call for stricter gun laws here. It doesn't make any sense.

 

 

[Bob2222 317]

If you're planning on speaking at either the Brookdale or Newark meetings, it may be helpful to scan the biographies of the task force members.

 

http://nj.gov/govern.../20130117b.html

 

It looks like former AG Degnan would have been of draft-age during Vietnam era, but I couldn't tell if he served or not.

 

The panel is chaired by two former AGs, and the members are experts in mental health, drug abuse and education. If their eyes are glazing over listening to the 2A speakers, that might have something to do with it.

 

I'd mention out that NJ has a 9.6% unemployment rate, 4th worst in the entire country, and boatloads of laws and regulations, including those regarding firearms. NJ firearms laws are a symptom of the states problems, not a solution.

[ChrisJM981 924]

http://www.njsp.org/info/ucr2011/index.html

 

Found some good info there.

 

Number of murders in NJ in 2011 by:

 

rifle: 1

Shotgun: 5

Cutting instument: 51

Handgun: 264

 

Plenty more goodies in there. I will update after I have a chance to go through it all.

 

[Bob2222 317]

About half of the homicides in the US involve minorities and drugs and gang activity are predominantly responsible. About 20% of homicides in the US are committed by individuals who are seriously mentally ill.

 

The number of homicides committed with rifles in the US is small, and the number committed with so-called "assault weapons" is even smaller. The legislative focus is on black scary ugly guns because they're easy to identify.

 

Legislators reflexively try to pass more laws and then smugly claim they're done something about the problem when they haven't even correctly identified the problem.

 

http://www.nationalr...layton-e-cramer

 

http://www.cdc.gov/m...ml/mm6103a2.htm

 

At least with drug, mental illness and education experts appointed to Christie's task force, it's closer to the mark than more magazine limits.

[Cold Steel 0]

I just got back home from the NJ SAFE hearing in Camden. I got a chance to speak and did my little song and dance about our transportation laws.

 

I noticed a couple of things:

 

#1. There were cops out the wazoo there, including two State Troopers posted at ceremonial parade rest in front of the panel. More than one person mentioned the irony of the troopers being there to protect the panelists. Honestly, I think they were genuinely afraid of us gun owners.

 

#2. There were about 100 people there. About 1/3rd were black and Hispanic Camden residents. I don't think a single resident asked for more gun laws. They asked for more jobs, better schools and mental health care.

 

#3. There were legislators there. Senator Norcross was there along with Assemblywoman Lampitt. This is a good opportunity to actually meet with your legislators one on one.

 

#4. Bryan Miller of Ceasefire was there. He was one of two foaming-at-the-mouth anti-gun guys there. Everybody else who spoke was either pro-gun or neutral.

 

#5. Keep your remarks under 3 minutes in length. Don't expect to say a long speech. They will cut you off at 3 minutes and you will be asked to sum up. Practice your speech in front of people. Read it like you are talking to someone, not reading from a speech.

 

#6. Please leave the hunter camo and cowboy hats at home. Dress like you are going to work, and not to the rodeo or WWE event. Whenever a pro 2A guy got up there wearing hunter camo or a cowboy hat the Star Ledger photographer went into overdrive.

 

#7. You will be recorded by the news in both video and audio. Don't say anything that will make you look like James Yeager.

 

#8. Don't be James Yeager.

 

#9. Give reasonable short answers instead of pontificating about the second amendment. I spoke about one issue - transportation in the context of Hurricane Sandy and how it was illegal to remove my guns from my home and take them to my brother in law's house. Pick a simple subject such as collapsible stocks, and explain exactly why its bad and the remedy for it.

 

#10. Get there early. You have to sign your name on a list to speak and that list is collected at the start of the event and you will not get a chance to put your name on it once it is collected.

 

#11. Seriously. Don't be James Yeager up there.

 

That's about it for now. Did anybody else on the board make it?

 

Thank you for the update.

[dimitrge 10]

This is all good information and should be used in the next meeting. The fact is if they anti's weren't ready this time, the next time they will be. Remember it was also in Camden so a lot of people won't travel there. Tonight's in my option is the biggest. If people are not prepared it could turn things around in the anti's favor

[dimitrge 10]

Also I think it's important to mention that why should we go and spend money trying to enforce new laws like the in home evaluations instead of waiting for the federal government to come to its conclusions first. It's possible we already have in more in place now than our federal government would mandate. Like Christie did with Obama care. Didn't set exchange up let the government do it. Same idea here. Ps new poll in star ledge said people fears about gun violence have calmed to pre sandy hook