So much for Sweeney helping

[Njgunowner 2]

So in his radio address today Sweeney through us under the bus. He thinks mandatory training and the fairly arbitrary "watch list" are perfectly reasonable. So lets create a back log of oh, a million or so NJ gun owners signing up for "training". It will take YEARS upon YEARS to get all the registered gun owners through training. How stupid.

 

 

New Jersey Senate President, Stephen Sweeney said he is a supporter of the second amendment but some things need to be changed.

“I can tell you we are going to be amending some them because some of them need to be amended,” said Sweeney. “I’ve always supported the second amendment. There are reasonable approaches when it comes to weapons and people that support guns aren’t crazy either.”

Some of the bills that Sweeney feels confident about would be gun training and the one concerning the terrorist watch.

“I know that the terrorist watch bill was controversial but it’s pretty hard to argue against someone on a terrorist watch getting a weapon,” said Sweeney.

[BlueLineFish 615]

I don't agree with making it mandatory but after watching some people at the range they are a lot that could stand to take some training just for the safety rules alone

[n4p226r 105]

The terrorist watch list is one of the ones I support the least. I truly believe that sooner or later someone will go crazy and start shooting these people.

[Njgunowner 2]

Accordingly, there are several ways that an average joe can find himself on this list without even knowing it. That is, until they decide to buy a car, get on a plane, go to the grocery store or get a credit card (to start with).

1. Search at Your Own Risk

Compliments of the Patriot Act, several government agencies have the ability to track your internet search habits. Being that there are so many searches performed an hour, these agencies log keywords and look for combinations that they think are tied to you being a “terrorist.” For example, at risk search terms include “Anarchists Cookbook,” “bomb making,” “airport security,” and “homemade plastic.” The days of Googling keywords out of inane curiosity are over.

Be careful what you search, how often you search it, and the combination of terms that you are searching. I think common sense will prevail, in that, if you THINK you shouldn’t be searching for something – it’s not worth it.

2. Last Minute Flights

If you are a frequent traveler, you are better traveling in patterns. Meaning, if you travel a lot to San Fran for work or a girlfriend, you are set. Last minute flights, however, are a sure-fire red flag. You can look forward to getting the dreaded “SSSS” on your boarding pass, which every now and then, is nothing but a hindrance that will delay your sitting in the terminal for an hour while your flight is delayed anyway.

It is important to note, patterns being what they are, after 12 – 15 instances you are officially red-flagged as a potential threat. At this point, you are dancing a fine line and should start planning your trips a little farther ahead of time because you will get a special security search tag every time you travel.

3. Don’t get Cute with names!

People are into have multiple name, like Ann Marie Madison Smith and other cute WASP-y sounding names. Unfortunately having multiple names is not a traditionally “American” tradition, at least that is what the government thinks. It would appear that terrorists like Abdul Mohammad Ishmael Zacowie have ruined it for the rest of us.

Having 2 first names or even worse, 2 first names and a middle as part of your “proper” name, increases your risk by a double digit percentage. The TWL system looks for multiple names and automatically raises a flag. Being cute-sy is not worth not it! Embrace being boring!

4. Email is not secure, don’t be a smartass!

To think that you are too unimportant for someone to scan you email might have been true 10 years ago. Alas, those days are gone. Many smartasses, especially around Spring Break time, think it will be unique to email friends with messages like, “If the F*&KING plane gets delayed like last year, just yell BOMB or FIRE so we can all get off and drink…”

Of course, on the level, any idiot with common sense will see it as frat banter. Unfortunately, the people overseeing are above average idiots and all they see on their screen is PLANE, BOMB, DELAYED, FIRE. Yeeeaaahhh…not pretty.

[NJdiverTony 27]

Just saw this on NJ.com:

 

TRENTON — Senate President Stephen Sweeney said this morning the Senate will act on new gun control measures by the end of April, though he said not all of the 22 bills the Assembly passed yesterday will make it through his house.

"We're going to take a hard look at the bills the Assembly did,” Sweeney said on in a radio interview on 106.9FM in Philadelphia. “Some might be changed, some might not go through at all.”

Sweeney (D-Gloucester) to this point has been a question mark in the debate on guns that was reignited after the Newtown, Conn. tragedy. Senate Majority Leader Loretta Weinberg (D-Bergen) has taken charge of pushing new gun laws through the upper house. But Sweeney has said little on the issue, and so far no new gun bills have had a hearing in the Senate.

But Sweeney said some of the bills the Assembly passed yesterday were “common sense,” such as mandatory training for gun owners and banning people on the federal terrorism watch list from buying firearms. He did not identify the bills he would not post in the Senate.

“Look, I’ve always supported the 2nd amendment. I’m not some crazy gun guy,” he said. “And people who support guns aren’t crazy either.”

[Njgunowner 2]

The mandatory training, renewal, 10 round limit, and internet purchase bans need to go.

[ryan_j 0]

I don't agree with making it mandatory but after watching some people at the range they are a lot that could stand to take some training just for the safety rules alone

 

hell watching some cops at the range I think they should retake some of their most basic firearms training.

[axeman_g 128]

Sweeney is a Pro 2A Dem... but he is not a rabid supporter. We are going to need his support to keep many of those bills down and out of the sentate deliberations. Get on his side.. work with him and lets not blast him. The writing is on the wall... training for PPPs or even FIDs is coming (although I remember having to take a safety course to get my FID 25 years ago... do they still do this?) and the terror watch list is a given. And stop freaking out over the watch list... if I am not on it because of the Google seaches I do weekly at my job (example: Wind patterns in the nations capital and Anthrax dispersal methods), then trust me your not on it for your "how to build an AR vid" search!

[ogfarmer 138]

I beleive the problem with the terrorist watch list one is the criteria to be added..

 

They can add you for pretty much anything that doesnt fit agenda or exposes them. What they find a threat can label you.

 

Some entitys believe 2nd amenders are domestic terrorists, along with preppers, anyone who does not agree with the current regime. This mirrors the days of the cold war and people thought of as communists,

 

1st amendment will get you added if it seems to oppose their agenda

[greatgunstatenj 32]

I truly believe that sooner or later someone will go crazy and start shooting these people.

 

Hopefully that person will use a knife or baseball bat. We don't need anymore bad press.

[Njgunowner 2]

Since no one here knows all the details or just how arbitrary getting on the watch list is, and that includes the politicians, it shouldn't be used PERIOD.

[ryan_j 0]

The terror watch list one I am of two minds. But generally I oppose it.

 

The list is unaccountable and as far as I know there is NO appeals process. I would be pretty pissed if I got on the list somehow because I know there was almost no way of getting off.

 

If it were a clearly defined list with a clearly defined appeals process I'd be fine with it... but not in its current form.

[Cold Steel 0]

I hold out some hope that Sweeney will filter through that mass of crap the Assembly passed yesterday and only present some for vote and possibly amend some others and others toss to the side. I agree now is not the time to bash him. We need him on our side. He will have to put some stuff out for a vote to save face with his party. We need to try to influence him on what he puts out for a vote.

We need to continue to write, email and fax him our opinions on these bills. Keep the pressure on. Don't give up. We have to fight this step by step.

[axeman_g 128]

I agree that the TWL is a uncomfortable tool and I wish it did not exist.. sometimes. But it has worked.. yes there have been incidents where we think it has contained names of innocent civilians.. once again we dont know anything about it's workings and criteria.

 

The one thing I always hear as an argument is the there are people that will add you because they dont like your politics or hobbies. It's smells of McCarthyism, I get that. But I can tell you there is no grand gov play to make terrorists out of US citizens without cause, it's just not happening. There are way to many patriots onboard. If your on that list, there is a reason and I bet 99.99% of the reasons are valid. But since we will never know... we can argue this till we are blue in the face.

 

I am willing to trade that for 15rd mags.

[axeman_g 128]

DHS Redress Inquiry Info

[Cixelsid 1]

Sweeney is a Pro 2A Dem... but he is not a rabid supporter. We are going to need his support to keep many of those bills down and out of the sentate deliberations. Get on his side.. work with him and lets not blast him. The writing is on the wall... training for PPPs or even FIDs is coming (although I remember having to take a safety course to get my FID 25 years ago... do they still do this?) and the terror watch list is a given. And stop freaking out over the watch list... if I am not on it because of the Google seaches I do weekly at my job (example: Wind patterns in the nations capital and Anthrax dispersal methods), then trust me your not on it for your "how to build an AR vid" search!

 

How does anyone know they are on a secret government list. It's not like they send out a 'Congratulations! You are now on our watchlist." letter?

[axeman_g 128]

You would be stopped at airport would be the first thing. You would not pass a fed NICS either.

[wooly bugger 1]

So in his radio address today Sweeney through us under the bus. He thinks mandatory training and the fairly arbitrary "watch list" are perfectly reasonable. So lets create a back log of oh, a million or so NJ gun owners signing up for "training". It will take YEARS upon YEARS to get all the registered gun owners through training. How stupid.

 

 

New Jersey Senate President, Stephen Sweeney said he is a supporter of the second amendment but some things need to be changed.

“I can tell you we are going to be amending some them because some of them need to be amended,” said Sweeney. “I’ve always supported the second amendment. There are reasonable approaches when it comes to weapons and people that support guns aren’t crazy either.”

Some of the bills that Sweeney feels confident about would be gun training and the one concerning the terrorist watch.

“I know that the terrorist watch bill was controversial but it’s pretty hard to argue against someone on a terrorist watch getting a weapon,” said Sweeney.

Here is my fervent fantasy:

1) Training leads to backlog

2) 500k gun owners reapplying for their FIDs next year and another 500k the year after worsens the backlog

3) This goes to court as the de facto ban that it is, and the court overturns it, AND puts in measures to require compliance with the 30 day rule. Or even overturns the whole FID thing (OK, put pipe away...)

[H.M. Murdock 0]

If your on that list, there is a reason and I bet 99.99% of the reasons are valid. But since we will never know... we can argue this till we are blue in the face.

 

So there is a 99.99% chance that someone is on the list for good reason? But we'll never know? What kind of statistic and argument is that??

 

Anyway.. that's 1 in 10,000 people denied their 2A right without a working appeals process. That's a couple orders of magnitude more people denied their 2A rights than there are mass murders or even total firearms death rate in NJ per capita

[jdubsss 0]

They don't. That's why it's such a messed up proposal.

[H.M. Murdock 0]

You would be stopped at airport would be the first thing. You would not pass a fed NICS either.

 

I know people that are stopped at the airport because they can't get off the watch list (since it's secret and there is no definitive method to get removed) and they don't get denied on NICS

[wooly bugger 1]

I agree that the TWL is a uncomfortable tool and I wish it did not exist.. sometimes. But it has worked.. yes there have been incidents where we think it has contained names of innocent civilians.. once again we dont know anything about it's workings and criteria.

 

The one thing I always hear as an argument is the there are people that will add you because they dont like your politics or hobbies. It's smells of McCarthyism, I get that. But I can tell you there is no grand gov play to make terrorists out of US citizens without cause, it's just not happening. There are way to many patriots onboard. If you on that last, there is a reason on I bet 99.99% of the reasons are valid. But since we will never know... we can argue this till we are blue in the face.

 

I am willing to trade that for 15rd mags.

I agree with no grand gov plot. They aren't organized enough to put together a plot. But at an individual level. Someone calls someone else, who as a "favor" adds a name. No accountability. No appeal.

 

If the list is being used correctly, no one should fear a little due process. The lack of due process to me is evidence that it isn't being used correctly. Same with the drone assassinations of US citizens. If he's guilty, then no one should fear getting a court order to approve the kill.

 

Stepping back from my role as a gun owner, this is actually the most chilling piece of legislation. Carroll put that woman on the spot when he asked what other Constitutional rights she'd be willing to subject to arbitrary denial. She had no answer except, "better safe than sorry!"

 

This whole situation is shattering whatever remaining faith I had in the democratic process. 20 years ago, I never would have thought that the Constitution could be gutted as thoroughly as it has, with so little attention. It's all bread, circus, and flat screen TVs for the hoi poloi.

[matty 810]

Here is my fervent fantasy:

1) Training leads to backlog

Yep, due to undefined requirements/approved courses.

 

2) 500k gun owners reapplying for their FIDs next year and another 500k the year after worsens the backlog

This is a FEATURE, NOT a bug--NJ Liberals laugh and say, 'so what?'

 

3) This goes to court as the de facto ban that it is, THEN---

 

5 years later------

 

and the court overturns it, AND puts in measures to require compliance with the 30 day rule. Or even overturns the whole FID thing (OK, put pipe away...)

No PASS IT OVER HERE!!

 

 

FTFY

[kman 56]

So he wants to enact a state law, that says that if you get your name on a federal list, under state law you can't own a gun?

 

A list that the state can't even get you off of?

 

A list that the feds don't even have to explain why you are on?

 

Sounds like the exact opposite of "common sense"

[axeman_g 128]

So there is a 99.99% chance that someone is on the list for good reason? But we'll never know? What kind of statistic and argument is that??

 

Anyway.. that's 1 in 10,000 people denied their 2A right without a working appeals process. That's a couple orders of magnitude more people denied their 2A rights than there are mass murders or even total firearms death rate in NJ per capita

 

Yes, that I bet there is 1 in 10000 people on the TWL that is there by mistake. Either they have the same name as a know terrorist (Timothy MacVeigh????) or by erroneous inclusion. Yep... I can live with that. And there is an appeals process as I stated above.

I wonder if there are 500000 names on that list? that would mean 50 people by error... 100 per million. 3250 per US population of 325 million.

For some reason I am ok with this.

[axeman_g 128]

I know people that are stopped at the airport because they can't get off the watch list (since it's secret and there is no definitive method to get removed) and they don't get denied on NICS

 

Please point your friends to post #15 above. Either they dont care enough to get themselves of the list or I call BS. Are the stopped and blocked from flying or delayed??/ BIG DIFFERENCE.

[H.M. Murdock 0]

DHS Redress Inquiry Info

 

Getting a redress # does not remove you from the list

 

The bill also has no process of appeals as the Assemblywoman explained you will be expected to appeal federal agencies which cannot report back to the county court.

 

Maybe you ought to accidentally get added to the list so you can deal with it first hand and spend years of time and money trying to get yourself removed before you dismiss the lack of due process so casually

[ryan_j 0]

I agree that the TWL is a uncomfortable tool and I wish it did not exist.. sometimes. But it has worked.. yes there have been incidents where we think it has contained names of innocent civilians.. once again we dont know anything about it's workings and criteria.

 

The one thing I always hear as an argument is the there are people that will add you because they dont like your politics or hobbies. It's smells of McCarthyism, I get that. But I can tell you there is no grand gov play to make terrorists out of US citizens without cause, it's just not happening. There are way to many patriots onboard. If your on that list, there is a reason and I bet 99.99% of the reasons are valid. But since we will never know... we can argue this till we are blue in the face.

 

I am willing to trade that for 15rd mags.

 

I'm willing to trade your 15rd mags for CCW.

 

Wait, I thought we weren't trading anything?

[axeman_g 128]

Your right... maybe I should. I will write a blog about it... But until that happens I have better things to do like trying to figure out how to keep my 2a rights in this state. Like keeping the tinfoil from getting to tight, making sure that the uneducated get informed and that the politicians that think they lord over us are kicked out of office.

 

Want to join me or do you want to bicker some more?

[axeman_g 128]

I would trade 15rd limits for CCW in a heartbeat! I would carry a 1911 anyway.