So much for Sweeney helping

[wooly bugger 1]

There was a period of time where I was routinely pulled aside at customs. Apparently, there was a bad guy out there with a name similar to mine. There was another time where I kept getting pulled aside, I suspect because I was taking a lot of one way flights from NY to PA. I travel a lot for business and make last minute arrangements and one way flights all the time. A close Canadian friend of mine was detained overnight at JFK for no explanation.

 

Neither I nor my friend are involved in any organization or activities that might land us there, and neither of us have long or unusual names.

 

It's an arbitrary screening process, with "better safe than sorry" the motto for many lists. I don't know how that one works or how any other list works.

 

So don't be so smug that you couldn't end up on it.

 

I don't know which is scarier, that basic tenets of democracy are gradually being stripped away or that the frogs are cheerfully staying in the warm, comfy, gradually heating baths.

 

Here's the other sad thing. I didn't click on the redress link, because I'm afraid to have that associated with my IP.

[halbautomatisch 60]

So here is a question.

 

Since the list is a secret, do the feds even share this information with the states, and if so, would they even allow them to use it for this purpose? It's not like the feds would have to obey this law if they thought it wasn't in their best interest to do so.

 

Regardless, if this does become law, we will need to try to get Sweeney to include some method of appeal (to the state) to ensure that no one gets denied unjustly (yes, I know the whole concept is unjust, but no one wants actual terrorists to have firearms).

[Qel Hoth 33]

The terror watch list one I am of two minds. But generally I oppose it.

 

The list is unaccountable and as far as I know there is NO appeals process. I would be pretty pissed if I got on the list somehow because I know there was almost no way of getting off.

 

If it were a clearly defined list with a clearly defined appeals process I'd be fine with it... but not in its current form.

Even if the list was clearly defined with an appeals process, it still cannot be used.

 

If you "think" someone might be planning to commit a crime, you charge them with conspiracy. If you don't have enough evidence and/or a jury or grand jury doesn't buy your case, the person may continue to be investigated, but he or she may not be incarcerated or have liberties restricted in any manner

[claptrap 0]

Sweeney might help us, think about it pro 2a dem running for governor, gets the gun vote and the dem vote cause they won't vote for Christie either way

[Njgunowner 2]

Eh, considering the stuff that Sweeney want's to pass is probably the same crap that CC will pass I'm not sure how it helps us in the slightest. Sweeney is pro 2a when the moods suits him or it benefits him.

[BigHayden 77]

I missed his interview, but I did read the e-mail from the NJ2AS... WTF is the "hollow point bullet loophole"??

 

This just reinforces my earlier opinion of him. He's a Fudd. He does not believe in guns for self defence, only for hunting.

 

 

On a related note, I am starting to understand how a person can be pushed over the edge and be driven to doing something that would be otherwise unthinkable. I'm afraid all those people who have been predicting a second American revolution are right.

[n4p226r 105]

 

 

_{worth it?}

 

 

No

[greatgunstatenj 32]

Here's the other sad thing. I didn't click on the redress link, because I'm afraid to have that associated with my IP.

 

Ha I was curious but thought the same thing so I didn't indulge my curiosity.

[wooly bugger 1]

You will get mandatory training .....

 

AND in my opinion... THAT is not a bad thing.....

 

You have to be a little off kilter to think it is not beneficial ....

 

Just my. 02

And what if mandatory training turns out to be an 80 hour, $3000 course that requires you to bring your own gun?

[PeteF 1,044]

You will get mandatory training .....

 

AND in my opinion... THAT is not a bad thing.....

 

You have to be a little off kilter to think it is not beneficial ....

 

Just my. 02

 

You have to be a little of kilter to believe the government can do ANYTHING efficiently and effectively.

Training good. Mandatory training bad.

[incinerator950 0]

No, not at all. The Government proved that any mandatory regulations end up getting twisted and any control to the State Level can't be relied on most of the time.

 

Look at the sorry state of the FDA and the food industry, or the massive overspending and decline of our health.

[Bob2222 317]

Training good. Mandatory training bad.

 

That's my take, too. I can easily lay my hands on the certificates from all the NRA courses that I took. It seems pretty much a matter of common sense to take a safety course. What would be really stupid is if they say "within X years".

 

And yes, I can see that with a million NJ FPID holders plus the current ammo shortage, re certification is going to be a logistical nightmare.

[axeman_g 128]

Then what Nick has been saying.. and saying it all along is that we are going to have to give something. Take a training offer to them? Would you be willing to state 20hrs or training is feasible to reissue did cards?

 

We should be driving the conversation? Would you trade 10rd mags for a ccw opportunity?

[incinerator950 0]

Then what Nick has been saying.. and saying it all along is that we are going to have to give something. Take a training offer to them? Would you be willing to state 20hrs or training is feasible to reissue did cards?

 

We should be driving the conversation? Would you trade 10rd mags for a ccw opportunity?

 

I wouldn't compromise anything, we should have 10rds and more and the CCW. There's no need for a compromise when the people who are voting on the people who are deliberately trying to take away everything need to wake up and vote these people out of office.

[H.M. Murdock 0]

Then what Nick has been saying.. and saying it all along is that we are going to have to give something. Take a training offer to them? Would you be willing to state 20hrs or training is feasible to reissue did cards?

 

We should be driving the conversation? Would you trade 10rd mags for a ccw opportunity?

 

I understand Nick's argument that absolutism doesn't work but I don't agree that his alternative strategy will have better results.

 

What gives you the idea that offering them some of your 2A rights in sacrifice will stop their indomitable movement to take all of your 2A rights away? If you give them something for free it will only enbolden them to take more next time.

 

A 20 hour training course is a weekend event (4 hrs Friday night, 10 hrs Saturday, 6 hrs Sunday or maybe 4,8,8). A weekend training course will cost the student a COUPLE THOUSAND dollars. Probably more if the state is administering it.

 

If the intent is to deny the poor and middle class their 2A rights I can't think of a better way than to require them to spend a couple thousand bucks to get a FPID card. That it would create a chilling effect on citizens wishing to exercise their 2A rights in NJ is the understatement of the century.

 

I wouldn't compromise anything, we should have 10rds and more and the CCW. There's no need for a compromise when the people who are voting on the people who are deliberately trying to take away everything need to wake up and vote these people out of office.

 

I agree. It's not even compromise as we don't get anything in return. It's a routine of sacrificing more and more of our rights every time they make a push to grab guns. How is death by a thousand cuts any better than going out with a bang? I choose not to ignore the precipice in front of us.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

hell watching some cops at the range I think they should retake some of their most basic firearms training.

 

truth has been spoken

 

I dare someone to watch some departments qualify. You will learn how NOT to shoot, reload, and perform. Sorry for being blunt

[Ray Ray 3,566]

You will get mandatory training .....

 

AND in my opinion... THAT is not a bad thing.....

 

You have to be a little off kilter to think it is not beneficial ....

 

Just my. 02

 

Somebody has to want to learn, and call me off kilter but when you make it manditory nobody learns anything. I won't

[Texas Shooter 35]

That's fine you can disagree I have no problem with that

 

I will still say I think it is a good thing based on the type of people I see walk through the door looking to buy a firearm

 

We as responsible firearms owners should be touting mandatory training to show that we want to do it better smarter than most of the people

 

We should be driving to the discussion not them

 

We should be making the recommendations what we feel as firearms owners and as trainers what makes the most sense

 

Then you must work for it not to be an 80 hour 3000 dollar course

 

I will say it once again absolutism always fails the shall not be infringed argument will have you fall flat on your face

 

Nick,

 

We're talking about the government here. Just of think of the average driver. They got government approved training.

 

-TS

[smoe_picka 0]

With any luck Mil ID holders will be exempt.

[Qel Hoth 33]

That's fine you can disagree I have no problem with that

 

I will still say I think it is a good thing based on the type of people I see walk through the door looking to buy a firearm

 

We as responsible firearms owners should be touting mandatory training to show that we want to do it better smarter than most of the people

 

We should be driving to the discussion not them

 

We should be making the recommendations what we feel as firearms owners and as trainers what makes the most sense

 

Then you must work for it not to be an 80 hour 3000 dollar course

 

I will say it once again absolutism always fails the shall not be infringed argument will have you fall flat on your face

 

We should be advocating yet another roadblock to legal gun ownership?

 

We need to get mandatory training first and then make sure it doesn't become a burden? Nancy Pelosi? Is that you? Surely if someone who has taken a NRA First Steps course is safer than someone without, then someone who has taken even more training will be even safer, right?

 

While absolutism may not be working, why do you think compromise will? This isn't your boss wanting to pay you 50k and year and you wanting 70k, so you settle on 60...

 

Compromising with the antis reminds me very much of Neville Chamberlain saying he has returned from Germany with "peace for our time" after giving Hitler the Sudetenland in hopes of preventing war...

[BCeagle 12]

And what if mandatory training turns out to be an 80 hour, $3000 course that requires you to bring your own gun?

 

Amen. No training should be needed, do you need training to exercise your 1st amendment rights?

 

Imagine them making you qualify every 6 months.

[EchoMirage 137]

I will say it once again absolutism always fails the shall not be infringed argument will have you fall flat on your face

 

wrong. there should be no compromise to exercise a RIGHT, given to each american as a HUMAN RIGHT. not something given by a government. you dont earn rights, you earn privileges. 'compromise' doesnt mean us giving and giving and giving to JUST keep what we have, and not lose anything more. thats not a victory, thats not a compromise, that a loss.

 

you want to compromise your 1A too? how about to just keep the 'freedom of speech', you have to send every single text, call, email, blog, tweet, update, etc through a government censor.

 

want to keep your 4A? then you can compromise by submitting to a stop and frisk on ALL public property, but not private.

 

what about the 8A? to keep your right against excessive bail and a speedy trail, you have to compromise by immediately pleading guilty to any and all charges brought against you. if you want to remain 'innocent until proven guilty', then theres a flat 5mil bail for any and all charges.

 

the gun community, especially in communist police states as this, has done nothing but give, and give, and give, and has yet to receive a 'compromise' on their end. so NO, i will NOT give, i will NOT compromise, i AM an absolutist, and i dont give a flying fyck if you like it or not. ive been vilified and labeled a criminal for exercising a right for long enough.

[njpilot 671]

Why are people on here so quick to say "I'll take 10 round mags if I can CCW"? How about we get rid of our 15 round mags and get 30 round mags and get CCW?

 

Listening to Gura in the CCW case, sounds like we have a chance it could go our way. Even so, it will be decided by SCOTUS, hopefully in our favor.

 

Why offer to give up one thing in hope of getting something else they won't give in to anyway? That's ridiculous. Do you think Cryan, Mainor, Greenwald, Weinberg, et al are going to say, "ok, we'll reduce your mags to 10 and give you CCW for being so accommodating"? Give me a break, they will do what they want, screw you.

 

Why even go there?

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Lol....let me know our inmate number..I'll send you a cake.......do you read around what you type.? And see how it sounds....really do it....

 

We will see how the absolutism works out....

 

I too, have drawn a line in the sand Nick. Sorry, bro. Echo is right.

[BarkNBite 15]

IMO.....the only one Sweeny is helping is himself...to whatever he can get.....G.O. for the ironworkers local and now elected NJ politician......what could be more fitting here in NJ.

[H.M. Murdock 0]

do you read around aloud what you type.? And see how it sounds....really do it....

 

Are you familiar with the pot and kettle idiom?

 

We will see how the absolutism works out....

 

You and axeman make quite the tag team in pushing your ideas for "compromise" and stirring the pot.

 

It's going to work out the same -- with or without absolutism. The legislature is forcefully pushing through their agenda with irrational abandon. They don't give a shit that you're willing to capitulate on some of the proposed legislation.

 

You never answered the question above -- why even go there?

 

We're along side you visiting/calling/faxing/emailing our elected officials, going to rallies, etc. There's no need to belittle us or make us out to be crazy.

 

Honestly if I lived in rural Sussex County maybe I could stick my head in the sand too. But I don't unfortunately, I live in the center of this shit storm.

 

In response to the other thread you guys have going, there is a difference between harebrained "tin foil" conspiracies and what is happening right now to our 2A rights in this state. Again, stirring the pot and belittling those who are willing to fight for their freedoms on every level.

[jdubsss 0]

Why are people on here so quick to say "I'll take 10 round mags if I can CCW"? How about we get rid of our 15 round mags and get 30 round mags and get CCW?

 

Listening to Gura in the CCW case, sounds like we have a chance it could go our way. Even so, it will be decided by SCOTUS, hopefully in our favor.

 

Why offer to give up one thing in hope of getting something else they won't give in to anyway? That's ridiculous. Do you think Cryan, Mainor, Greenwald, Weinberg, et al are going to say, "ok, we'll reduce your mags to 10 and give you CCW for being so accommodating"? Give me a break, they will do what they want, screw you.

 

Why even go there?

 

I don't want to give up anything. My statement was "I could live with that".