7-3-2 9 Posted August 6, 2013 I recently was introduced to this concept by a buddy of mine who says it is totally legal. I understand that it could be legal to make your own firearm but I still would think that a lot of complications could be involved in having and unregistered weapon in your possession (especially outside of your residence say you were heading to the range etc.) does anyone have any insight on this topic? Has anyone made their own lower? http://youtu.be/30i_6awxEG4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TulsaJohn 1 Posted August 6, 2013 NO for like the 100th time already Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
7-3-2 9 Posted August 6, 2013 LOL ... you sure? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ogfarmer 138 Posted August 6, 2013 yes its totally illegal in NJ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ogfarmer 138 Posted August 6, 2013 If you don't have a NJ Manufacturer's license, you're setting yourself up for prison time and a life as a Prohibited Person. 2C:39-1f defines a manufacturer as: "Manufacturer" means any person who receives or obtains raw materials or parts and processes them into firearms or finished parts of firearms, except a person who exclusively processes grips, stocks and other nonmetal parts of firearms. The term does not include a person who repairs existing firearms or receives new and used raw materials or parts solely for the repair of existing firearms. 2C:39-9d says that anyone who manufactures a firearm without being licensed to do so commits a crime of the 4th degree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
7-3-2 9 Posted August 6, 2013 Thats pretty cut and dry ... oh well I have my FPID I mine as well just play the safe route lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT Custom Guns 959 Posted August 6, 2013 Unless you have a mfg lic. don't even give it a second thought.................. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
7-3-2 9 Posted August 6, 2013 Ok, I sure didnt think so but this guy was pretty convinced it was legal, I guess when the drones come looking for him well know why. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TulsaJohn 1 Posted August 6, 2013 It is legal in some other states, not sure where. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kimber45 3 Posted August 6, 2013 If that's the case than when you build you own rifle from scratch are you doing something that is illegal? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted August 6, 2013 If that's the case than when you build you own rifle from scratch are you doing something that is illegal? no one does that in NJ.. they typically start with a serialized receiver.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kimber45 3 Posted August 6, 2013 OK so if a buddie of mine wants me to do a build for him as long as he gets his see numbered lower I can build it for him with no issues? ( NJ neutered of course ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted August 6, 2013 OK so if a buddie of mine wants me to do a build for him as long as he gets his see numbered lower I can build it for him with no issues? ( NJ neutered of course ) I would question the legality of working on another individuals firearm when not acting as a business... I mean sure you could unofficially help him with it... but he can't buy a serialized lower leave it at your house and pick it up later built... when you leave a gun with an FFL it is entered into a log book.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,878 Posted August 6, 2013 Please SEARCH next time - it's been discussed at least 3x over.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5th4x4 0 Posted August 6, 2013 Consider: Build your own car. Not for sale or distribution, just for personal use. Don't register it. AWESOME! Then find yourself confronted by a LEO while possessing said car. And then enjoy your journey through the legal system. Btw, just make sure that you don't have any of Demitri's unregisters weapons in the trunk of your car at the time. : P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NicePants 58 Posted August 6, 2013 If you don't have a NJ Manufacturer's license, you're setting yourself up for prison time and a life as a Prohibited Person. 2C:39-1f defines a manufacturer as: "Manufacturer" means any person who receives or obtains raw materials or parts and processes them into firearms or finished parts of firearms, except a person who exclusively processes grips, stocks and other nonmetal parts of firearms. The term does not include a person who repairs existing firearms or receives new and used raw materials or parts solely for the repair of existing firearms. 2C:39-9d says that anyone who manufactures a firearm without being licensed to do so commits a crime of the 4th degree. Wouldn't that exclude an 80% lower? I know if you do the last bit of work necessary to finish it, that would constitute manufacturing of a finished firearm part and would thereby be breaking the law, but if you just made the 80% lower without finishing it, wouldn't that be legal considering it isn't a finished firearm part? Not even the ATF considers it a finished part. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Recon Racoon 49 Posted August 6, 2013 Wouldn't that exclude an 80% lower? I know if you do the last bit of work necessary to finish it, that would constitute manufacturing of a finished firearm part and would thereby be breaking the law, but if you just made the 80% lower without finishing it, wouldn't that be legal considering it isn't a finished firearm part? Not even the ATF considers it a finished part. But NJ, in their wisdom, would take it as intent to manufacture and potentially distribute said firearm. Even though the ATF might not consider it a firearm, NJ would. And in the end, it'd be NJ you'd have to convince its legal, even though they already state it isn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pbkid6974 1 Posted August 6, 2013 So basically we cant even posess 80% lowers? Even to use as paperwaighrs and bookends? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 264 Posted August 6, 2013 I see no problem with possession of an 80% lower as it is nothing other than a chunk of aluminum. Just don't machine it into a "100% lower" and you'll be fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Respect2A 0 Posted August 6, 2013 It was mentioned once by PK 90 that you could drill it out in PA and then bring it back. What if you lived in PA and had a rifle with a personal use lower and moved to NJ? Similar concept Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 264 Posted August 6, 2013 It was mentioned once by PK 90 that you could drill it out in PA and then bring it back. What if you lived in PA and had a rifle with a personal use lower and moved to NJ? Similar concept Like most other things in NJ, it's a grey area. Personally I would never be in possession of a rifle without a serial number in NJ. ETA: Only exception being one that's so old it pre-dates serial number requirements. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Respect2A 0 Posted August 6, 2013 Like most other things in NJ, it's a grey area. Personally I would never be in possession of a rifle without a serial number in NJ. ETA: Only exception being one that's so old it pre-dates serial number requirements. I'm not saying it's the worlds greatest idea, just that it is possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Walt of Destiny 412 Posted August 6, 2013 The really screwy part is I could have a complete upper as a paperweight all day. Use it to prop up my hood on the side of the road. But that chunk of aluminum, go right to jail. Come to think about it the right size pipe and a hammer could be +80% of a weapon. But I digress. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RUTGERS95 890 Posted August 6, 2013 But NJ, in their wisdom, would take it as intent to manufacture and potentially distribute said firearm. Even though the ATF might not consider it a firearm, NJ would. And in the end, it'd be NJ you'd have to convince its legal, even though they already state it isn't. I can't believe this 'intent' has not been challenged and beaten. Hell, you want it for a cool paper weight for all anyone knows. closer and closer to Orwell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leadunderpressure 52 Posted August 6, 2013 Consider: Build your own car. Not for sale or distribution, just for personal use. Don't register it. AWESOME! Then find yourself confronted by a LEO while possessing said car. And then enjoy your journey through the legal system. Btw, just make sure that you don't have any of Demitri's unregisters weapons in the trunk of your car at the time. : P That would depend on where the LEO found you and the car. If you're cruising around off road where it's legal to do so, you're good, particularly on your own property. Driving it on a public street, you have unregistered vehicle problems. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MidwestPX 172 Posted August 6, 2013 I would question the legality of working on another individuals firearm when not acting as a business... I mean sure you could unofficially help him with it... but he can't buy a serialized lower leave it at your house and pick it up later built... when you leave a gun with an FFL it is entered into a log book.. Not always. As far as the feds are concerned, if the firearm isn't kept overnight, it doesn't need to be entered in the bound book. As far as having a friend build it, as long as they aren't doing it for a profit, it should be okay. I would recommend the owner of the receiver be present at all times though so there's no mistaking who owns the firearm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DbleTrouble 8 Posted August 6, 2013 I was on grand jury few years back and we had a case about guns. The prosecutor read the laws pertaining and inside your own home it's legal to have a firearm that is not registered. For example a firearm that is pre serial number. As far as manufacturing that may be another story. Can anybody point out the specific statue that says it's illegal to make a lower in nj? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 264 Posted August 6, 2013 If you don't have a NJ Manufacturer's license, you're setting yourself up for prison time and a life as a Prohibited Person. 2C:39-1f defines a manufacturer as: "Manufacturer" means any person who receives or obtains raw materials or parts and processes them into firearms or finished parts of firearms, except a person who exclusively processes grips, stocks and other nonmetal parts of firearms. The term does not include a person who repairs existing firearms or receives new and used raw materials or parts solely for the repair of existing firearms. 2C:39-9d says that anyone who manufactures a firearm without being licensed to do so commits a crime of the 4th degree. I was on grand jury few years back and we had a case about guns. The prosecutor read the laws pertaining and inside your own home it's legal to have a firearm that is not registered. For example a firearm that is pre serial number. As far as manufacturing that may be another story. Can anybody point out the specific statue that says it's illegal to make a lower in nj? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5th4x4 0 Posted August 6, 2013 That would depend on where the LEO found you and the car. If you're cruising around off road where it's legal to do so, you're good, particularly on your own property. Driving it on a public street, you have unregistered vehicle problems. The analogy isn't meant to be an apples/apples comparison. Just a link to logical thought. And the logic in that example is based on "use" or "purpose" or "intent". But this discussion seems to be based on circular logic. When the legality of the lower is called into question, the lower suddenly becomes a paperweight. When the lower's "use" or "purpose" or "intent" is to be a part of an unregistered firearm, it can no longer be called a paperweight. And round and round it goes. So is this really all about the legality of manufacturing a lower to be used as a paperweight? Or is it about manufacturing a lower to be used as a firearm? I suppose you can always test the legality of this by taking a serialized lower and then stripping it down to the metal, and then grinding away all of it's markings. Now you have a similar paperweight. And who can say that you didn't manufacture it yourself? Ok, but now what? You have a paperweight? Personally I'd opt for something less risky to help me secure my papers to the desk And I'd be confident in the fact that I'll never have to hear a LEO order me to "step away from the snow globe sir!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites