Is it legal to make your own lowers in NJ?

[7-3-2 9]

I recently was introduced to this concept by a buddy of mine who says it is totally legal. I understand that it could be legal to make your own firearm but I still would think that a lot of complications could be involved in having and unregistered weapon in your possession (especially outside of your residence say you were heading to the range etc.) does anyone have any insight on this topic? Has anyone made their own lower?

 

http://youtu.be/30i_6awxEG4

[TulsaJohn 1]

NO for like the 100th time already

[7-3-2 9]

LOL ... you sure?

[ogfarmer 138]

yes its totally illegal in NJ!

[ogfarmer 138]

 

 

If you don't have a NJ Manufacturer's license, you're setting yourself up for prison time and a life as a Prohibited Person.

 

2C:39-1f defines a manufacturer as:

"Manufacturer" means any person who receives or obtains raw materials or parts and processes them into firearms or finished parts of firearms, except a person who exclusively processes grips, stocks and other nonmetal parts of firearms. The term does not include a person who repairs existing firearms or receives new and used raw materials or parts solely for the repair of existing firearms.

 

2C:39-9d says that anyone who manufactures a firearm without being licensed to do so commits a crime of the 4th degree.

[7-3-2 9]

Thats pretty cut and dry ... oh well I have my FPID I mine as well just play the safe route lol

[JT Custom Guns 957]

Unless you have a mfg lic. don't even give it a second thought..................

[blksheep 466]

Nope

[7-3-2 9]

Ok,

 I sure didnt think so but this guy was pretty convinced it was legal, I guess when the drones come looking for him well know why.

[TulsaJohn 1]

It is legal in some other states, not sure where.

[Kimber45 3]

If that's the case than when you build you own rifle from scratch are you doing something that is illegal?

[vladtepes 1,060]

If that's the case than when you build you own rifle from scratch are you doing something that is illegal?

 

 

no one does that in NJ.. they typically start with a serialized receiver.. 

[Kimber45 3]

OK so if a buddie of mine wants me to do a build for him as long as he gets his see numbered lower I can build it for him with no issues? ( NJ neutered of course )

[vladtepes 1,060]

OK so if a buddie of mine wants me to do a build for him as long as he gets his see numbered lower I can build it for him with no issues? ( NJ neutered of course )

 

 

I would question the legality of working on another individuals firearm when not acting as a business... I mean sure you could unofficially help him with it... but he can't buy a serialized lower leave it at your house and pick it up later built... when you leave a gun with an FFL it is entered into a log book.. 

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Please SEARCH next time - it's been discussed at least 3x over....

[5th4x4 0]

Consider:

Build your own car.

Not for sale or distribution, just for personal use.

Don't register it.

AWESOME!

Then find yourself confronted by a LEO while possessing said car.

And then enjoy your journey through the legal system.

 

Btw, just make sure that you don't have any of Demitri's unregisters weapons in the trunk of your car at the time.

 

: P

[NicePants 58]

 

 

 

If you don't have a NJ Manufacturer's license, you're setting yourself up for prison time and a life as a Prohibited Person.

 

2C:39-1f defines a manufacturer as:

"Manufacturer" means any person who receives or obtains raw materials or parts and processes them into firearms or finished parts of firearms, except a person who exclusively processes grips, stocks and other nonmetal parts of firearms. The term does not include a person who repairs existing firearms or receives new and used raw materials or parts solely for the repair of existing firearms.

 

2C:39-9d says that anyone who manufactures a firearm without being licensed to do so commits a crime of the 4th degree.

 

Wouldn't that exclude an 80% lower? I know if you do the last bit of work necessary to finish it, that would constitute manufacturing of a finished firearm part and would thereby be breaking the law, but if you just made the 80% lower without finishing it, wouldn't that be legal considering it isn't a finished firearm part? Not even the ATF considers it a finished part.

[Recon Racoon 49]

Wouldn't that exclude an 80% lower? I know if you do the last bit of work necessary to finish it, that would constitute manufacturing of a finished firearm part and would thereby be breaking the law, but if you just made the 80% lower without finishing it, wouldn't that be legal considering it isn't a finished firearm part? Not even the ATF considers it a finished part.

But NJ, in their wisdom, would take it as intent to manufacture and potentially distribute said firearm. Even though the ATF might not consider it a firearm, NJ would. And in the end, it'd be NJ you'd have to convince its legal, even though they already state it isn't. 

[pbkid6974 1]

So basically we cant even posess 80% lowers? Even to use as paperwaighrs and bookends?

[Jon 264]

I see no problem with possession of an 80% lower as it is nothing other than a chunk of aluminum. Just don't machine it into a "100% lower" and you'll be fine.

[Respect2A 0]

It was mentioned once by PK 90 that you could drill it out in PA and then bring it back.

 

What if you lived in PA and had a rifle with a personal use lower and moved to NJ? Similar concept

[Jon 264]

It was mentioned once by PK 90 that you could drill it out in PA and then bring it back.

 

What if you lived in PA and had a rifle with a personal use lower and moved to NJ? Similar concept

 

Like most other things in NJ, it's a grey area. Personally I would never be in possession of a rifle without a serial number in NJ.

 

ETA: Only exception being one that's so old it pre-dates serial number requirements.

[Respect2A 0]

Like most other things in NJ, it's a grey area. Personally I would never be in possession of a rifle without a serial number in NJ.

 

ETA: Only exception being one that's so old it pre-dates serial number requirements.

I'm not saying it's the worlds greatest idea, just that it is possible.

[Walt of Destiny 412]

The really screwy part is I could have a complete upper as a paperweight all day. Use it to prop up my hood on the side of the road. But that chunk of aluminum, go right to jail.

 

Come to think about it the right size pipe and a hammer could be +80% of a weapon. But I digress.

[RUTGERS95 890]

But NJ, in their wisdom, would take it as intent to manufacture and potentially distribute said firearm. Even though the ATF might not consider it a firearm, NJ would. And in the end, it'd be NJ you'd have to convince its legal, even though they already state it isn't. 

I can't believe this 'intent' has not been challenged and beaten.  Hell, you want it for a cool paper weight for all anyone knows. 

 

closer and closer to Orwell

[leadunderpressure 52]

Consider:

Build your own car.

Not for sale or distribution, just for personal use.

Don't register it.

AWESOME!

Then find yourself confronted by a LEO while possessing said car.

And then enjoy your journey through the legal system.

 

Btw, just make sure that you don't have any of Demitri's unregisters weapons in the trunk of your car at the time.

 

: P

 

That would depend on where the LEO found you and the car. If you're cruising around off road where it's legal to do so, you're good, particularly on your own property. Driving it on a public street, you have unregistered vehicle problems.

 

 

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[MidwestPX 172]

I would question the legality of working on another individuals firearm when not acting as a business... I mean sure you could unofficially help him with it... but he can't buy a serialized lower leave it at your house and pick it up later built... when you leave a gun with an FFL it is entered into a log book.. 

Not always.  As far as the feds are concerned, if the firearm isn't kept overnight, it doesn't need to be entered in the bound book.

 

As far as having a friend build it, as long as they aren't doing it for a profit, it should be okay.  I would recommend the owner of the receiver be present at all times though so there's no mistaking who owns the firearm.

[DbleTrouble 8]

I was on grand jury few years back and we had a case about guns.  The prosecutor read the laws pertaining and inside your own home it's legal to have a firearm that is not registered.  For example a firearm that is pre serial number. 

 

As far as manufacturing that may be another story.  Can anybody point out the specific statue that says it's illegal to make a lower in nj?

[Jon 264]

 

 

 

If you don't have a NJ Manufacturer's license, you're setting yourself up for prison time and a life as a Prohibited Person.

 

2C:39-1f defines a manufacturer as:

"Manufacturer" means any person who receives or obtains raw materials or parts and processes them into firearms or finished parts of firearms, except a person who exclusively processes grips, stocks and other nonmetal parts of firearms. The term does not include a person who repairs existing firearms or receives new and used raw materials or parts solely for the repair of existing firearms.

 

2C:39-9d says that anyone who manufactures a firearm without being licensed to do so commits a crime of the 4th degree.

 

 

 

I was on grand jury few years back and we had a case about guns.  The prosecutor read the laws pertaining and inside your own home it's legal to have a firearm that is not registered.  For example a firearm that is pre serial number. 

 

As far as manufacturing that may be another story.  Can anybody point out the specific statue that says it's illegal to make a lower in nj?

[5th4x4 0]

That would depend on where the LEO found you and the car. If you're cruising around off road where it's legal to do so, you're good, particularly on your own property. Driving it on a public street, you have unregistered vehicle problems.

The analogy isn't meant to be an apples/apples comparison. Just a link to logical thought.

And the logic in that example is based on "use" or "purpose" or "intent". 

 

But this discussion seems to be based on circular logic. When the legality of the lower is called into question, the lower suddenly becomes a paperweight. When the lower's "use" or "purpose" or "intent" is to be a part of an unregistered firearm, it can no longer be called a paperweight. 

And round and round it goes.

 

So is this really all about the legality of manufacturing a lower to be used as a paperweight? Or is it about manufacturing a lower to be used as a firearm?

 

I suppose you can always test the legality of this by taking a serialized lower and then stripping it down to the metal, and then grinding away all of it's markings. Now you have a similar paperweight. And who can say that you didn't manufacture it yourself?

 

Ok, but now what? You have a paperweight?

 

Personally I'd opt for something less risky to help me secure my papers to the desk

 

 

And I'd be confident in the fact that I'll never have to hear a LEO order me to "step away from the snow globe sir!"