Good Entry Level "Off The Shelf" Buy

[Boejoula 0]

Well I went to the range today. There were 2 guys in the lanes next to me with a SIG AR and a scar. After talking they let me for them both. I have decided to go a less expensive route on the 1911 and double my budget on the AR!

[vladtepes 1,060]

Having gone down the "build and customize" road, I get it. When I built my first, one "mil-spec" part wasn't "mil-spec" enough; this was before YouTube, and a book helped me troubleshoot.

 

I agree - building one is a worthwhile project and a great way to learn the platform. Still, just a consideration, if you're new or want extra piece of mind, spend $20 on a manual - to have it and not need it.

 

 

before the internet I agree completely.. and sure I will give you that having the book on the shelf wont hurt anything... but when piecing the gun together.. hands on.. there is not not a ton of use..

 

I see the value in having it on paper on the off chance that the internet is not there some day.. for some strange reason.. 

[gleninjersey 2,141]

Okay, so I got an email from Cope's Distributing and they have an Anderson stripped upper receiver for $59.99 (link below). 

 

http://www.copesdistributing.com/anderson-556223-stripped-upper-receiver-p-7798.html?osCsid=hiacnlh9br327sh1gf9cfcp8d7

 

Here's  are my questions (cuz you know there is going to be more than one!).  1st - looking at Anderson's website they have what appears to be the same stripped upper listed for $75 and then a "Mil Spec Complete Upper Receiver" for $125 (link below)

 

http://www.andersonrifles.net/index.php/shop-parts/upper-parts/upper-receivers.html

 

Wouldn't the stripped upper be the same as the "Mil Spec Complete Upper" minus the ejection port cover assembly & forward assist assembly?  My question is, am I to assume the $59.99 stripped upper is mil spec or never assume because it makes an "ASS Out of U & ME" (or just me in this case)! 

 

 

Second question,  good idea to "mate" the lower and upper with same manufacturer or should I go with a more known/tested upper (BCM, etc)?  I know ARs are built to be modular and shouldn't matter as long as all parts are mil spec.  Have a feeling most will be telling me to go with the more known/tested upper......and I think I kind of just answered my own question.  Maybe I'll just call Anderson or send them an email.  Wouldn't they say the stipped upper is mil spec if it is.......maybe the fact that they don't should be a big, glaring hint?

 

Thanks for your advice, insight and knowledge in advance.

[Boejoula 0]

I'm not very knowledgeable on AR's but I have been doing a lot of reading and just put mine together. I believe that if it were mil-spec, they would state it.

[pbkid6974 1]

Why dont you have a bcm blem upper shipped to your door for $80? You know its mil-spec and of great quality. All you gave to do is put on the ejection port cover and forwatd assist. They both come with it just not assembled.

[gleninjersey 2,141]

Resurrecting my thread.....things are about to get real.  Long story short, I owe taxes to Uncle Sam (1st time in years) but recently came into come money.  Won 1st place on a $11 poker tournament.  $1500 windfall!  Some of it is being used to pay taxes and some is going into my build.

 

Here's what's I'm currently torn on.  The upper.  Nobody says bad things about either PSA or BCM.  The BCM that i think I want is

 

$725 plus at least another $85 to have them add the BCM Gunfigher Comp Mod1:

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-EAG-HS-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-package-p/bcm-uh-eag2-hs.htm

 

Benefits: $800 shipped to my door, NJ compliant, ready to go. 

What's Holding Me Back:  Mainly I know nada about comps and don't know if I'll like this comp.  And it is 800 bones.  And not familiar with the Magpul furniture though again I don't really hear any bad about it....and I do like how it looks.  I have this stupid idea that it may melt under heavy use?  Is that possible?

 

The PSA problem:

 

They currently only have 1 midlength upper in stock:

 

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/14-7-pinned/psa-14-7-chf-mid-length-lightweight-with-wilson-combat-trim-fde-12-rail-unpinned-without-bcg-or-charging-handle.html

 

I'm not crazy about it.  Don't like the color/look. 

 

PSA is having an Easter Sale.  They have some 16 midlengths and a 14.7 carbine (some examples below).

 

16 inch midlength $380

 

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-16-mid-length-dissipator-without-bcg-or-charging-handle.html

 

16 midlength with BCG & charging handle $400

 

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-16-mid-length-cl-mp-premium-upper.html

 

14.7 carbine WITHOUT BCG & charging handle

 

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-14-7-hf-m4a1-upper.html

 

 

So here are my questions in regards to PSA.  Does carbine vs midlength really matter.  Is the recoil that much different?  I shoot a Ruger GP 100 in 357 and that doesn't turn me off. 

 

My other concern with PSA is i don't believe they will change out the A2 Flash Hider prior to shipping.  Means I'll have to have it shipped to FFL (additional cost) and have a comp put on it (additional cost).  With those additional cost I'm prob close to the $800 for the BCM!? 

 

So looking for some input / help / advice.  Don't need to start a huge "carbine vs midlength" discussion.  I think the recoil with carbine won't be an issue for me.  The "plus" to that discussion is purpose for my build is the "Ruger GP100" of ARs and that sounds carbine to me.  Tried & true with plenty of parts around.

 

So BCM midlenght or PSA 14.5 carbine or 16 midlength?

[High Exposure 5,664]

BCM EAG HS is the way to go. I have one with a Battlecomp. It is light, accurate, soft shooting, reliable, and comes with almost everything you need. Add a light and a RDS and you are done.

 

Full disclosure,Pat (owner of EAG) is a friend. He went through a lot of upper designs that Paul built for him before deciding that this is the one to bear his company logo and put his reputation behind. He made a good choice

[checko 180]

BCM EAG HS is the way to go. I have one with a Battlecomp. It is light, accurate, soft shooting, reliable, and comes with almost everything you need. Add a light and a RDS and you are done.

 

Full disclosure,Pat (owner of EAG) is a friend. He went through a lot of upper designs that Paul built for him before deciding that this is the one to bear his company logo and put his reputation behind. He made a good choice

This. I have it as well with a dynacomp.

 

Really good value for what your getting.

[Boejoula 0]

I have no experience with either. I have the light weight spikes upper with the dynacomp. All I had to do was take off the bayo lug. 650 shipped if your open to suggestions

[gleninjersey 2,141]

This. I have it as well with a dynacomp.

 

Really good value for what your getting.

 

How does the Dynacomp compare to the BCM Gunfighter comp?  I thought I had linked in my thread a discussion about comps but don't see it.

 

To have the Dynacomp put on I would have to have the upper shipped to FFL and have it attached there, correct?

[checko 180]

How does the Dynacomp compare to the BCM Gunfighter comp? I thought I had linked in my thread a discussion about comps but don't see it.

 

To have the Dynacomp put on I would have to have the upper shipped to FFL and have it attached there, correct?

I've never used the gunfighter so I cant compare. I will say for .223 I don't really worry about much with the comps. Dynacomp looked cool, wasn't $3737449 dollars and generally has a good rep.

 

As far as the ffl, it may be easier but it isn't NECESSARY to send it to an ffl. You just can't have it with a complete lower. An upper is just a hunk of steel until you can pair it with a lower. NOT NFA until lower is involved either. Shipping to the ffl may just cut down on your driving to make it compliant.

[n4p226r 105]

Bcm is the way to go. But you still need to shave the bayonet lug. Although for not much more you can get a 6920 and have to make it nj compliant. I'd still choose the bcm with a quality lower.

 

And while I chose a battlecomp on my upper, I see no reason to choose that or the dynacomp over the bcm when you can get the bcm from the factory that way.

[gleninjersey 2,141]

Are there any local places that sell NJ compliant uppers that aren't overpriced or easier to just buy online & have shipped to FFL for compliance work?

 

Where can I have the compliance work done? I'm in Central NJ (near Bridgewater) so the closer the better. Willing to travel a little. Also, what is estimate for having bayonet lug removed and comp perm attached so I know what is a reasonable price?

[Boejoula 0]

Are there any local places that sell NJ compliant uppers that aren't overpriced or easier to just buy online & have shipped to FFL for compliance work?

 

Where can I have the compliance work done? I'm in Central NJ (near Bridgewater) so the closer the better. Willing to travel a little. Also, what is estimate for having bayonet lug removed and comp perm attached so I know what is a reasonable price?

Bayo lug is easy, you can do it yourself. Contact Steve at Monmouth Arms. Great prices and an awesome guy to deal with. He may have some uppers in stock also.

[n4p226r 105]

yea. the bayonet lug shouldn't be more than $25 to $30.  its literally a 5 minute job and some color applied over the ground area.  

[checko 180]

I did mine at rahway hg but I had the upper sent to my moms in NYC.

[gleninjersey 2,141]

"Think" I've narrowed it down to a PSA upper.  While the BCM is tough to beat it still still around $825 if you add the Gunfighter comp and pay to have the bayonet lug ground down.

 

The only thing holding me back from pulling the trigger is PSA doesn't currently have a 14.5 midlength that I like/desire.  There are several 16 inch models that are very attractively priced/configured:

 

This one is getting my attention the most.  $299 for a 16 mid-length "premium" heavy upper W/O BCG or CH.  Seems like a VERY, VERY, attractively priced upper for a 1st time buyer:

 

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/16/psa-16-mid-length-premium-heavy-upper-without-bcg-or-charging-handle.html

 

 

This one is the length (14.7) that almost everyone says I should get but is a carbine.  Cold Hammer Forged (CHF) barrel WITHOUT BCG OR CH.  I don't think the recoil of a carbine over the recoil a midlength will bother me (I shot a 357 Magnum) or be too much of a consideration.  Also I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that carbine pieces/parts would be easier to find if the world goes to hell.....which isn't something I think will happen but is a consideration for ease of replacement parts.  $309:

 

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-14-7-hf-m4a1-upper.html

 

 

16 Carbine With Magpul furniture WITH BCG and charging handle.  Very similar to the Bravo Company upper I'm eyeing except that one is a midlength &this one is a carbine and the BCM is 14.5 & this PSA is 16 & is priced at $499.

 

htttp://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/5-56-nato-223/psa-m4-premium-16-cmv-cl-upper-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html

 

 

Please feel free to let me know if you know of a good reason NOT to go with PSA.  Money for me is always tight. Married, with 2 kids in Catholic school and I'm the sole wage earner.......please feel free to click the link below to donate to my build if you feel I absolutely MUST get the BCM  

 

I do realize the PSA ONLY ships with the A2 Flash Hider and as NJ deems it just TOO EVIL.  I'll have to have it replaced with a comp.  I would probably go with a mid priced comp $50-75ish).  I would also have to have the bayonet lug ground down.  I'm guestimating about an additonal $125 - $150 to make all NJ safe, friendly and compliant.

 

Also, if I want to eventually upgrade the basic handguard down the road is there any consideration to be given.  I've briefly read that some profiles (can't remember which one) may prove a little difficult to free float given that configuration.  Is there a profile/configuration to steer clear of if I don't want problems swapping out the handguard?

 

Thanks for your advice and input. 

[n4p226r 105]

you are comparing a budget upper to a top of the line upper.  i can't quantify the value of the one over the other.  

 

the BCM is $810.  that comes with everything you need except shaving the bayo-lug .  so figure another $30 for that.

 

your first link, if you wanted a heavy barrel (i wouldn't), to be equal to the BCM still needs a bolt carrier group $180, a backup sight $40, a charging handle $40, a compensator $50, the bayonet lug ground $30, the compensator pinned, $30 and turns out to be 17.5"  thats for a savings of less than $200.  plus the MOE hand guards are nice.  i wouldnt even feel the need to upgrade them honestly.  

 

the last one is probably the best bet, but you are still almost $200 to make it compliant.  leaving you about $200 less than the BCM.  

 

i'll even put my money where my mouth is.  get the BCM, find a place that will grind the bayonet lug off for $25 and i'll send you the $25 

[sof 0]

So I've been lurking as far as this thread goes and I'm curious, what makes Bcm special? This is not a sarcastic question, but why is it better than say a Stag. Having read some of the Gun Digest series on the AR, many of the 'lesser' brands get excellent marks from Sweeney and his test crew so why spend more for a name? What are the real world differences in ARs?

[gleninjersey 2,141]

you are comparing a budget upper to a top of the line upper.  i can't quantify the value of the one over the other.  

 

the BCM is $810.  that comes with everything you need except shaving the bayo-lug .  so figure another $30 for that.

 

your first link, if you wanted a heavy barrel (i wouldn't), to be equal to the BCM still needs a bolt carrier group $180, a backup sight $40, a charging handle $40, a compensator $50, the bayonet lug ground $30, the compensator pinned, $30 and turns out to be 17.5"  thats for a savings of less than $200.  plus the MOE hand guards are nice.  i wouldnt even feel the need to upgrade them honestly.  

 

the last one is probably the best bet, but you are still almost $200 to make it compliant.  leaving you about $200 less than the BCM.  

 

i'll even put my money where my mouth is.  get the BCM, find a place that will grind the bayonet lug off for $25 and i'll send you the $25 

 

Thanks for the offer but I was joking. 

 

Here's my quandary.  I'm a noob, newbie, FNG, etc, etc.  I see, at least to me, what appear to be very identical items from two well regarded and reputable companies.  Both seem to be very identical...they have many of the same "key words / ratings"....1/7 barrel twist, M4 feedramp,high pressure tested, magnetic particle inspected, manganese phosphate treated, etc, etc, etc. 

 

And then I see $299 vs $725.  Both items would need to have bayo lug ground down and a comp added.  BCM gives you the option of adding a comp for $85 more.  So it's $800.  I'm assuming I could get something similiar for about the same price for the PSA.  That brings the PSA up to $385. 

 

The BCM has Magpul Hand Guards ($50?) and Magpul BUS ($50?) So if I got the same ones on the PSA that would bring it up to $485 vs $800. 

 

I then need to add a BCG and charging handle ($125?) to the PSA  So now it's $600

 

It's difficult for me, and I'm guessing maybe newbies, to see the $200 differernce....and please don't mention the $50 dvd and $100 Gift Certicicate which most people will never use.  Those hold zero value for me.

 

I'm not trying to be a jerk or arguementative.  Maybe someone will say something and a light will go on and I'll be like, "Oh, okay.  NOW I get it!"  But right now, I'm just not getting it.

 

And as this is my first foray into ANY rifle platform I realize I'm being very (maybe too much) analytical / nit picky.  Plus, I'm a thrifty bastard!

[gleninjersey 2,141]

Is a "heavy barrel" such as in the PSA different from a "government profile" such as in the BCM or 2 totally different things?

[n4p226r 105]

The biggest difference will be the bolt carrier group choice and gas port size. The bcm is most likely gassed slightly less than the psa since the psa wants maximum function on the cheapest of ammo. I've heard good things about the fn barrels so I'm not going to say anything bad about them. Its probably true that the psa will do everything for you the bcm will do. Especially if you get a quality bolt like a bcm for $180. Since that is the part most likely to fail. That bcm will bring the price difference to $200.

 

ARs are simple things with not much to differentiate with them. Especially since the receivers come from a few forgers and many companies farm out the machining work and are mainly assemblers. Bcm recently decided the upper receivers they got weren't high enough quality for them so they decided to source their parts earlier in the production process and have more control over the final finishing stages. It's things like that you can't see on paper and may not see in person.

[n4p226r 105]

Is a "heavy barrel" such as in the PSA different from a "government profile" such as in the BCM or 2 totally different things?

I'm not sure. I assumed heavy meant something like the socom or hbar style

[checko 180]

PSA Upper

16" Barrel length 1.5" longer, heavier
Chrome moly vanadium barrel BCM has but is certified mil spec
5.56 Nato Chamber same
1 in 7" twist rate same
Chrome-lined bore same
HPT/MPI Barrel same
M4 Feed ramps same
F-Marked Front sight post same
A2 Flash Hider still need to upgrade
Sling Loop same
Standard Hand Guards w/ heat shields probably want to upgrade.  add $25-30
Forged upper receiver same
T-Marks same
M16 Bolt Carrier Group and Charging Handle I would not call the bcg the same as the bcm is def and upgrade, and eag upper comes with bcm charging handle that is around $45

 

 

What you ARENT getting from the PSA is the BCM charging handle, BCG, Magpul handguards, sling adapter, rear sight and the little extras they throw in for you like lube and dvd but who knows if you intend to use them. 

 

CH - $45

Handguards - $25

Sling mount - $30 http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/product/rotation-limited-quick-detach-sling/  This thing is great

Rear sight $50

BCG - $180

 

 

Thats $330 by itself. Yes, you'd be getting a couple similar items but you'd be spending money to upgrade all of them, trust me.  

 

In the end its only worth what you'd pay so....

[checko 180]

The 14.5 lightweight barrel is awesome btw. 

[checko 180]

Is a "heavy barrel" such as in the PSA different from a "government profile" such as in the BCM or 2 totally different things?

A true heavy barrel is different.  The BCM EAG HS upper does NOT come with a government profle.  It is a lightweight or pencil barrel

 

I'm taking this exact upper to easton tomorrow if you stop by you're welcome to use it. 

[High Exposure 5,664]

The BCM is hands down worth every penny of the $800, and the difference in quality between the two is worth more than the $200 difference.

 

There's lower cost and there is best value. They are not the same.

 

You are a self professed "noob", asking for advice from those knowledgable in the platform. If you are uncomfortable making the decision due to your lack of experience, that is a smart move. You then have a choice to listen to the majority answer given to you by the members here or ignore it.

 

You have been brought to the crystal clear water, only you can choose to drink it.

 

Hey, in the end, it's your money.

[gleninjersey 2,141]

A true heavy barrel is different.  The BCM EAG HS upper does NOT come with a government profle.  It is a lightweight or pencil barrel

 

I'm taking this exact upper to easton tomorrow if you stop by you're welcome to use it. 

 

Ugggghh!  I'm working.  What 'cha doing Friday?  I'm off.....which means you're prob working.  We never seem to be able to mesh up...

[checko 180]

Lol I'm working 9-730.  How about Saturday? Or Wed night round, say 5 or 6

 

Did you ever get that ALG trigger?

[gleninjersey 2,141]

The BCM is hands down worth every penny of the $800, and the difference in quality between the two is worth more than the $200 difference.

 

There's lower cost and there is best value. They are not the same.

 

You are a self professed "noob", asking for advice from those knowledgable in the platform. If you are uncomfortable making the decision due to your lack of experience, that is a smart move. You then have a choice to listen to the majority answer given to you by the members here or ignore it.

 

You have been brought to the crystal clear water, only you can choose to drink it.

 

Hey, in the end, it's your money.

That's exactly why i"m asking all these stupid questions!!!  LOL.  I appreciate all the knowledge ....and patience.  I can see some of you behind your monitors...shaking your heads, "Not this noob question agan!".  Thanks guys.