Where to buy 80% lower in bricks and mortar shop?

[maintenanceguy 510]

I'm really not that interested in owning an AR.   But with the recent raid over 80% lowers in CA, and the recently revealed ATF letter that seems to indicate that just having the tools to complete one requires a license, I'm thinking I might want to get an 80% receiver and just stick it on the shelf incase I ever decide to try this.

 

So, is there any bricks and mortar store that sells these where a guy could pay cash?   If the AFT if looking for customer records, I'd rather not be on any records.

[Respect2A 0]

I was discussing that the other day with some shooting buddies. We were saying how we have never seen them anywhere in a brick and mortar shop or at gun shows.

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

Doubtful you'll ever see them for sale here in the Glorious PRNJ due to the need for a State-issued Manufacturing License to turn it into a 100% lower.

Try an American state. You'll likely have better luck.

[n4p226r 105]

theres also a whole lot of misinformation going around about this.  and it still does not seem that the ATF has changed their stance on aluminum 80% lowers.  the companies  made polymer lowers that were two separate pieces that you could finish pretty easily with a dremel.  i don't care that they did this, but apparently the ATF considered those firearms.  i'd probably agree. if an aluminum one was 80% and 80%is the threshold when it becomes a firearm, then the polymer ones at a minimum were 81% so they should be considered firearms.  

 

(i don't mean to infer by this statement that i think 81% lowers should be regulated any more than an 80% lower though)

 

they are also mostly popular in california to get around their gun laws.  think about it, why worry in PA where you can get a AR face to face with no paper train on the secondary market.  its not as big of a sales pitch to "make your own unregistered firearm" to anyone except the guy that likes to make stuff himself. 

[sosa9999 5]

The only place I ever seen them besides online is a gun show. 

[W2MC 1,699]

I thought I saw someone selling them at the last Oaks Show.....

 

Isn't another coming up next weekend?

[sosa9999 5]

I thought I saw someone selling them at the last Oaks Show.....

 

Isn't another coming up next weekend?

Yeap 28 - 30th, I believe it's going to be 2000 tables

[n4p226r 105]

i think (key word think) it has to do with california's crazy laws banning rifles by name.  its an easy way to get around that there.  i haven't researched it enough.

 

it also appeals to those who like to build things with their hand.  

[MidwestPX 172]

I am confused, what is the allure of an 80% lower anyway?  Seems like entirely too much work for zero gain and 100% exposure to potential problems....

 

what is the upside?

 

FYI this is NOT a loaded question..I just do not see the benefit etc......

Personally, I could see the allure of finishing one just to say I did. But the guys buying them by the dozen make me go, "Huh?"

[plode 0]

I am confused, what is the allure of an 80% lower anyway?  Seems like entirely too much work for zero gain and 100% exposure to potential problems....

 

what is the upside?

 

FYI this is NOT a loaded question..I just do not see the benefit etc......

 

Lets say our genius legislators one day make a law banning any form of an AR, labeling them as assault rifles, and that they all must be confiscated, with no grandfathering.  If the state police or ATF come into your shop...there is a paper trail leading to me saying I own a lower receiver.  Then the state police come knocking to confiscate the "assault weapon".   With a 80% lower- you can't confiscate something you don't know I own. 

 

It's also kind of fun to build something yourself.  It's like taking assembling a lower receiver to the next level. 

[PK90 3,571]

Lets say our genius legislators one day make a law banning any form of an AR, labeling them as assault rifles, and that they all must be confiscated, with no grandfathering.  If the state police or ATF come into your shop...there is a paper trail leading to me saying I own a lower receiver.  Then the state police come knocking to confiscate the "assault weapon".   With a 80% lower- you can't confiscate something you don't know I own. 

 

It's also kind of fun to build something yourself.  It's like taking assembling a lower receiver to the next level. 

 

One can say "I sold that rifle, and I forgot who I sold it too". Then what?

[plode 0]

One can say "I sold that rifle, and I forgot who I sold it too". Then what?

 

Where is the COE?

[MidwestPX 172]

One can say "I sold that rifle, and I forgot who I sold it too". Then what?

You're thinking in Free America terms though.

[PK90 3,571]

Where is the COE?

 

You're thinking in Free America terms though.

 

What would be the NJ or Federal charges with no evidence?

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Kinda like the people that stamped pieces of metal tubing as fast as they could to "serialize" them before the Fed stopped letting people make silencers.................

 

It is really none of their f-ing business!

[Respect2A 0]

I'm a diy'r. To me the allure would be to do finish one and then shoot it and be proud of my work. Could then also send it out to be coated a cool color or whatever my heart desires.

 

The fact that it isn't logged anywhere and that it wouldn't be subjected to some sort of possible confiscation just happens to be a bonus in my book.

 

For what it's worth I would probably buy 2 because chances are I would screw the first one up.

 

As for other people I don't know what their reasons are for buying one.

[mipafox 438]

theres also a whole lot of misinformation going around about this.  and it still does not seem that the ATF has changed their stance on aluminum 80% lowers.  the companies  made polymer lowers that were two separate pieces that you could finish pretty easily with a dremel.  i don't care that they did this, but apparently the ATF considered those firearms.  i'd probably agree. if an aluminum one was 80% and 80%is the threshold when it becomes a firearm, then the polymer ones at a minimum were 81% so they should be considered firearms.  

 

(i don't mean to infer by this statement that i think 81% lowers should be regulated any more than an 80% lower though)

 

they are also mostly popular in california to get around their gun laws.  think about it, why worry in PA where you can get a AR face to face with no paper train on the secondary market.  its not as big of a sales pitch to "make your own unregistered firearm" to anyone except the guy that likes to make stuff himself. 

There is no "threshold," neither 80% nor 81% mean anything, and ATF has no "stance" on 80% aluminum lowers. Just to help you squash the "misinformation going around about this."

[PK90 3,571]

Did EP Armory have a Ruling Letter from ATF that said their receiver was not a firearm? My understanding is that that is what is needed, like this one (pdf file).

 

FYI:

http://www.eparmory.com/EP80-Receiver-Black-p/ep80black.htm

[MidwestPX 172]

Did EP Armory have a Ruling Letter from ATF that said their receiver was not a firearm? My understanding is that that is what is needed, like this one (pdf file).

 

FYI:

http://www.eparmory.com/EP80-Receiver-Black-p/ep80black.htm

I don't believe they obtained one prior to going to market.

[plode 0]

There is no "threshold," neither 80% nor 81% mean anything, and ATF has no "stance" on 80% aluminum lowers. Just to help you squash the "misinformation going around about this."

 

At what point of completion is that chunk of aluminum considered a firearm then? 

[maintenanceguy 510]

What would be the NJ or Federal charges with no evidence?

 

You're assuming that the courts will always require evidence.   In the end game of democracies, courts rarely need evidence.

[vladtepes 1,060]

At what point of completion is that chunk of aluminum considered a firearm then? 

 

there is some magic line when it is "too finished" I am not sure where the line is.. situation is moot in NJ since you can not manufacture a firearm in NJ without a license.. 

[PK90 3,571]

Just drive it into PA and finish it there.

[mipafox 438]

 

At what point of completion is that chunk of aluminum considered a firearm then? 

When the ATF says so. There's no standard or definition.

[plode 0]

 

When the ATF says so. There's no standard or definition.

 

The ATF is not a legislative body, so they can't just say "that's a firearm and that isn't". 

Is there a law on the books that constitutes what is considered a firearm, and what isn't? 

[Clintoon Eastwood 2]

I am confused, what is the allure of an 80% lower anyway?  Seems like entirely too much work for zero gain and 100% exposure to potential problems....

 

what is the upside?

 

FYI this is NOT a loaded question..I just do not see the benefit etc......

paperweight

[vladtepes 1,060]

The ATF is not a legislative body, so they can't just say "that's a firearm and that isn't". 

Is there a law on the books that constitutes what is considered a firearm, and what isn't? 

 

while they are not a legislative body they generally decide on things that are not "clear"

[pbkid6974 1]

The ATF basically tells everyone what the will or won't arrest for. 

[n4p226r 105]

There is no "threshold," neither 80% nor 81% mean anything, and ATF has no "stance" on 80% aluminum lowers. Just to help you squash the "misinformation going around about this."

 

 

then why is 80% what they are selling?  why not sell one totally milled out except for the trigger and hammer holes?  I'm not arguing, I'm asking.  

 

as to the atf stance on 80% lowers. i meant that they weren't arresting people for illegal selling firearms.  

[vladtepes 1,060]

then why is 80% what they are selling?  why not sell one totally milled out except for the trigger and hammer holes?  I'm not arguing, I'm asking.  

 

as to the atf stance on 80% lowers. i meant that they weren't arresting people for illegal selling firearms.  

 

"80% lower" is not a mathematical determination of the amount completed... it is more a common term to label what partially finished lowers are called... there must have been a point in time where the ATF stated a lower with "this much work done to it" is already a "complete lower" and needing to drill out the holes was not enough manufacturing to constitute a non firearm... at which point the industry said "well what if the inside is not milled out".. the ATF recognizing that there is a point where parts are not guns agreed at that line.. this is just an assumption based on what I see sold as %80 lower..