Brady Bunch Sues NJ to start Smart Gun Law

[ryan_j 0]

What is their standing?

As usual they will claim that their members are harmed by gun violence and gun accidents. 

[ryan_j 0]

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

 

Look at my previous posts. I've done the analysis and the math. There are 6-8 competitive districts. Voter participation is in the 20% range. We are 1 million strong. We could, by ourselves, vote them out. Problem is the defeatist attitude that thinks there's no point in voting. True if you're talking about the presidential elections, but not for legislative elections.

 

VOTE.

 

 

I agree. 

 

There are a few categories of non-voters.

 

"My hunting/target/home defense guns aren't affected. I don't really care."

"I'll just move to PA/I'm moving to PA (or some other state). I don't care. Let NJ burn."

"We're outnumbered. No sense in voting."

"I don't like either choice on the ballot and I am not voting for the lesser of two evils."

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

Let's not forget the almighty GOP's power of fundraising and getting behind candidates in competitive districts to make them turn Red.....oh wait.

[charbs1985 11]

I'm so sick of this state!! I'm sick of watching these fascist demagogues who outlaw God-given constitutional rights while inventing un-constitutional "rights" for  illegal aliens, freeloaders, felons and all the other dregs of society. I'm sick of having to work 2 jobs 7 days a week to provide for my family while watching lazy, "somebody needs to be held accountable for not supporting my 15 children" slugs waltz down street waving their "Free Money" EBT cards. I'm tired of having to justify WHY I NEED TO OWN that weapon of war and explaining to the legislator that I NEED that gun to protect my family from people like your 2 multiple Felon sons. I'm tired of being told that I am a potential terrorist simply because I am veteran who believes in God, considers abortion murder and believes in personal responsibility and the US Constitution.

  I'm going to (Again) call my legislators and demand that if this law is enacted every police officer and politically connected CCW holder be required to carry a smart gun both on duty and off to make sure it works. If they are so confident that this unproven technology will eliminate every accidental shooting or murder they should be required to put their lives on the line first.

  I hate to say it but the age old tactic of using the threat of being voted out of office just doesn't work in this state anymore. If we actually had enough votes to fire these fascists it would have happened a long time ago and THEY KNOW IT!! We need a new plan to hold them accountable. We need to use every LEGAL means, no matter how unorthodox or unfair to forcibly change their attitudes and actually begin obeying the Constitution and the will of the people. We need to network like never before to develop relationships and allies to develop a war chest of tools to make it so personally and professionally expensive to trample on our rights, our families and our way of life. We need to create coalitions of influence from every aspect of modern society that will allow us to make it so PERSONALLY costly to violate our rights that it would be figuratively suicidal to do so. They have lives and jobs outside the statehouse that may make them vulnerable. do they own a business that depends on a local customer base? Start a grassroots movement to boycott them. Does an ally have a business that the legislators or their families have to compete for sales or contracts to provide  services? Make sure they don't get the job.

 

They have been using their citizen granted powers to attack our way of life and take away our ability to defend that which is the most important in our lives. It's time we turned the tables. and start doing it to them.

[Handyman 5,682]

 We need to use every LEGAL means...

 

At the point we now find ourselves, if we value our rights I am not even sure we should limit ourselves to this. The colonies rebelling against the mother country was illegal (to some).

 

We must also face the fact that their are two New Jerseys - a highly populated, urban progressive welfare state that will never elect legislators who represent our beliefs and a suburban/rural New Jersey that espouses more rational values. Let's secede. If PA does not want us, we can make our own state.

[Albanian 121]

Please NJ enact this and give me a real reason to take a road trip to some gun shows in free states.

[gleninjersey 2,141]

They should sue to force so EVERY driver in NJ can ONLY drive a $100k Tesla. It's the safest car around. It will save childrens lives and help save the enviroment. While they are at it they should force every new State mandated Tesla to have a speed governor so it can't exceed the state max speed limit. All these cars today are too powerful and have the ability to go too fast. They scare me and I worry about all the childrens safety. I have a right to feel safe and all these dangerous cars are just too powerful, dangerous and too fast looking! Somebody should do something about it!

[Newtonian 453]

Best chuckle all day......we all knew which districts were competitive, yet where is this mythical 'gun vote' in NJ? Sweeney was in a tight spot, so what happened?

 

And to top it off, it's been discussed and admitted on this very forum, by 'gun owners', that 2A rights are at the BOTTOM of the list of issues they vote upon.

 

At of the mythical '1 million strong' gun owners in NJ, there is probably less than 5k who vote based on 2A concerns.

Yeah advocacy groups always inflate their numbers. Still, if even the conservative figures I presented were in the ballpark, there's at least a couple of hundred thousand votes sloshing around out there. 

 

"Get out the vote" includes outreach to people who don't vote, education (e.g. the inevitable 10-round, 7-round ("I Love New York") mag limit, smart guns), and, frankly NEW TACTICS and NEW RHETORIC.

 

I would not make this all about guns, no way no how. Nor would I bring up terms like "concealed carry" because, I'd bet, even many gun owners believe it should not be legal. Pick out some other nonsense they voted for, and tack on "and by the way she wants to require XYZ" with respect to guns.

 

Our national and statewide NRA representatives work hard for us. I've read their statements and agree 100% with everything they say. But -- let's not mince words here -- when you announce that smart guns could impede a citizen from defending himself, as one did the other day, what the assholes in the legislature hear is that the principal reason we own guns is to shoot their relatives or, at best, their constituents. Or that you're contemplating bringing your "little guns" "on the street" to shoot innocent little unarmed choir boys on their way home from church. These are the icon-ideas (I know there's a better word for it) these legislators carry around with them, like a Catholic believes in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

 

A good reason for reversing the smart gun law is that, after a three year surge before the law takes effect, handgun sales will reduce to a trickle in this state, and the gun dealers could go out of business. Maybe handguns are not a big part of their business, I don't know, but they will lose sales as nobody with a brain in his head would ever buy such a monstrous contraption as a smart gun. Perhaps the state's gun dealers have an association. Have they put in any effort to repeal the law?

[Newtonian 453]

No the problem is the low lives do vote. They vote to continue the handouts. They leftist machine sends busses to pick them up and bring them to the poles, instructing them what lever to pull. The elderly and the wealthy also vote. Its the idiots in the middle (probably us) that don't vote.

Once again: I've posted numbers, stats, demonstrated that a fair number of races are close. We have more than enough numbers to overcome. 

[ryan_j 0]

At the point we now find ourselves, if we value our rights I am not even sure we should limit ourselves to this. The colonies rebelling against the mother country was illegal (to some).

 

We must also face the fact that their are two New Jerseys - a highly populated, urban progressive welfare state that will never elect legislators who represent our beliefs and a suburban/rural New Jersey that espouses more rational values. Let's secede. If PA does not want us, we can make our own state.

 

I do not want to become part of blue PA. 

[ryan_j 0]

Once again: I've posted numbers, stats, demonstrated that a fair number of races are close. We have more than enough numbers to overcome. 

 

Maybe some of our own are voting with the other side because their union told them to do so. 

[DeerSlayer 241]

Maybe some of our own are voting with the other side because their union told them to do so.

^^^^^^^

This I know is true. A portion of our 1,000,000 gun owners are probably voting the wrong way. Because Rocco, Rocco, and Anthony the union bosses say so.

[Newtonian 453]

Maybe some of our own are voting with the other side because their union told them to do so. 

I'm certain a fair number of the "one million" gun-owners haven't shot in years and have one gun (as with me from 1996-2012). There must also be some non gun-owners who believe in the right to own guns. And some are dyed-in wool Democrats. I know one for sure.

 

Unions are not as strong as they used to be. But your point is well taken, that guns are not the only issue for most people. Nor should they be. 

 

However -- I'm getting tired of saying this -- the numbers, even if you cut them in half at every stage, have a story to tell that very few posters on here are willing to admit. We're talking HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of votes that could turn the legislative elections around in more than enough districts to change the balance of power in Trenton. Yes the democrats are still going to bus in their constituents, but they're doing that now! Unless they turn to the cemeteries and prisons they're already at full throttle.

 

Believe it or not Republicans held a veto-proof majority in both houses as a result of the 1991 election. The issue then was Florio's tax increases. What did they do with that power? I'll never forget reading in the NJ Herald, shortly after those skunks were sworn in, that we couldn't really get rid of all those taxes because business would suffer.

 

That was then and this is now. Supporting the 2nd amendment is now a stock Republican position. 

[ryan_j 0]

The union thing was just an example. The problem is what is packaged up with each party.

 

My personal positions -

 

I'm for 2nd amendment obviously, but I lower taxes, reducing spending, freedom in general. I am pro life and I'm not really pro same sex marriage but I can accept it as long as it's not being thrown in my face. 

 

Where I depart from Republicans - I am NOT against renewable energy and reasonable measures to protect the environment.

 

But I can't get everything I want, because no one party shares all of my beliefs.

[DeerSlayer 241]

The union thing was just an example. The problem is what is packaged up with each party.

 

My personal positions -

 

I'm for 2nd amendment obviously, but I lower taxes, reducing spending, freedom in general. I am pro life and I'm not really pro same sex marriage but I can accept it as long as it's not being thrown in my face.

 

Where I depart from Republicans - I am NOT against renewable energy and reasonable measures to protect the environment.

 

But I can't get everything I want, because no one party shares all of my beliefs.

I have the same views.

[springfieldxds 0]

i helped a good amout in the Niki trunk campaign last election and all i can say is most gun owners are either, oblivious to whats going on (old time hunters and fishers), they  dont care and spew the same crap we hear everyday "NJ is lost, its a communist state, if they want my AK or AR they can have them bullets first, i will not comply", or they own one revolver from like 50 years ago and believe they're a true gun owner and then say things like, "why does anyone need more than 10 rounds, or why does anyone need assault rifles, i feel perfectly safe with my 6 shooter locked up in my attic"

 

Sweeney saw something in the last elections that basically told him it was ok to come out as anti gun or even that if he wanted to win as governor he had to come out as anti gun, these politicians arent stupid, they spend all of our money on polls and studies when elections come around, and they know exactly what to say and what to vote for to get reelected, and in Sweeneys case, knows what to say to run for governor 

[springfieldxds 0]

i can say this though, NJ loves Christie, They go crazy for him, NJ will vote for Christie till the day he dies and then continue on voting for his clone

 

If Christie wasnt too busy making back room deals and got off his ass and helped support the Republican party in south Jersey, Niki probably would've won and maybe we would have won a few extra seats

 

but Christie had some deal with Sweeney and Norcross not to help the Republican party and in reality he probably didnt want to either

 

Christie being the main man in a Democratic state makes him more popular and gets his name out there more, people love him more for his "image" that he can cross over political parties and get things done 

[mustang69 505]

i can say this though, NJ loves Christie, They go crazy for him, NJ will vote for Christie till the day he dies and then continue on voting for his clone

 

If Christie wasnt too busy making back room deals and got off his ass and helped support the Republican party in south Jersey, Niki probably would've won and maybe we would have won a few extra seats

 

but Christie had some deal with Sweeney and Norcross not to help the Republican party and in reality he probably didnt want to either

 

Christie being the main man in a Democratic state makes him more popular and gets his name out there more, people love him more for his "image" that he can cross over political parties and get things done 

IMO, Christie is happy being a Rep governor with a Dem house & Senate.  It provides him (and them too) with an "enemy" and an excuse for why things don't get done.  I would vote for him again, and again after that just because I can't stomach another totally Dem-controlled state Government.  Christie is far from perfect, but perfect doesn't exist and he's far better (or maybe just less objectionable) than any other choice we've had in a long time.  Give the NJSC's attitude and decisions on redistricting, and the stated preference for continuity (meaning incumbency) the Senate and House is not likely to change until the Reps get their act together and win the redistricting battle.

 

Think of it this way - If the Gov, House and Senate was all ®, would the budget be in any less of a mess?  Would the pension systems be any less underfunded?  Would school funding be any less rigged by the NJSC?  The state isn't broke - spending is as high as it's ever been - but IMO the spending goes to the wrong priorities, but politicians don't win elections by saying no.  It's just who they say yes to.

 

I believe this state will declare the pension funds bankrupt in my lifetime in NJ - another 3-5 years.  The hole is too deep and there is just no way outside of borrowing to fill it.  Doesn't matter whether a (D) or ® is in office.  All this talk about increasing revenue via a "Millionaire's Tax" or sin taxes on eCigs, or gas tax increase, or any other revenue stream is a distraction.  None of them really wants the tax increases, they just want to talk about it.  If the Dems actually got all the tax increases they are asking for, none of the problems they use as excuses would change because it just wouldn't be enough money.  

 

Politicians are addicted to spending (by saying yes to every interest group that lobbies them) and will spend every dollar they get twice.  Giving them more at this point just makes the addiction worse.  Politicians aren't dumb.  The problem is they think we are, and sadly in many cases it's true.  The public is all for increased taxes as long as it's someone else being taxed, all the while not noticing the hands in all our pockets.      

 

Gun laws are another distraction they use when there is something they don't want us to focus on.  Of course, who wouldn't want children or "the public" to be safe?  We all do.  We just don't agree that what is already in place or being proposed will have any positive effect on safety, and I don't believe the politicians believe it either.  But I do feel they think the public as a whole does believe it.  Again, another example of dumb. 

 

Stevie Wonder could have seen the latest pension decision coming - at this point in the budget year, filling that hole in revenue projections can only be done by spending cuts - It's like not having the money to pay your credit card bill this month, and going to your boss asking for a raise next year so you'll have the money.  It doesn't work that way.  Getting more money (if the boss agrees, which is unlikely) next year won't help you pay this month's credit card bill.  Having the state budget structured in such a way that the pension payment is made at the end of the fiscal year almost guarantees that will be where revenue shortfalls are resolved.  

 

And to have at least one comment on the OP thread, it's hard to see how the Brady campaign has any standing to sue the NJAG, just like I would not likely win if I sued Eric Holder. The courts may feel differently, but IMO that would be a decision based on emotion and personal belief, not on the law.

 

Sorry for the rant... 

[DaveR 42]

^^^^^^^

This I know is true. A portion of our 1,000,000 gun owners are probably voting the wrong way. Because Rocco, Rocco, and Anthony the union bosses say so.

I think you left Vito out.

 

Everyone knows you don't say no to a guy named Vito.

[DeerSlayer 241]

I think you left Vito out.

 

Everyone knows you don't say no to a guy named Vito.

Yep, or Sal

[ryan_j 0]

i helped a good amout in the Niki trunk campaign last election and all i can say is most gun owners are either, oblivious to whats going on (old time hunters and fishers), they  dont care and spew the same crap we hear everyday "NJ is lost, its a communist state, if they want my AK or AR they can have them bullets first, i will not comply", or they own one revolver from like 50 years ago and believe they're a true gun owner and then say things like, "why does anyone need more than 10 rounds, or why does anyone need assault rifles, i feel perfectly safe with my 6 shooter locked up in my attic"

 

Sweeney saw something in the last elections that basically told him it was ok to come out as anti gun or even that if he wanted to win as governor he had to come out as anti gun, these politicians arent stupid, they spend all of our money on polls and studies when elections come around, and they know exactly what to say and what to vote for to get reelected, and in Sweeneys case, knows what to say to run for governor 

 

 

Big problem with the Trunk campaign is I feel that gun owners didn't come out strong enough. That billboard (which I contributed funds for) was a huge flop. We needed something that will leave Sweeney running to cover his tail. Instead we got something "nice." That won't cut it.

[Stonecoldchavez 92]

"There are a few categories of non-voters.

 

"My hunting/target/home defense guns aren't affected. I don't really care."

 

"We're outnumbered. No sense in voting."

 

"I don't like either choice on the ballot and I am not voting for the lesser of two evils."

 

I totally concur with this statement above. I have several friends and their fathers that are gun owners and hunters primarily. They have no clue about the gun magazine gun, etc. going through the state as they see it as not affectig them. I am constantly on them about what laws are coming down the pipeline and telling them to call and write. Sadly, for many life, work, family, other issues, get in the way of them voting and/or calling/contacting their politicians.

 

Dadly, with the large welfare run cities we have here in NJ, I do not ever see a swing to a blue state for NJ. Too many people and too many politicians looking and getting handouts. That will never change.

 

I also agree about the union thing. Especially the NJEA. My buddy's wife (teacher) voted for Obama because "the union told her to". I said WTF are you listening to the union for, do your own research into him. His wife was anti-gun too until their house got broken into last summer. Now she is okay with having a shotgun in the house.

 

ryan_j - you and I have the same political views.

[Bob2222 317]

with the large welfare run cities we have here in NJ, I do not ever see a swing to a blue state for NJ. Too many people and too many politicians looking and getting handouts. That will never change.

 

The dark red states of the Deep South have larger minority populations than states like New Jersey, and have more neighborhood diversity than states like New Jersey.

 

 

I'm guessing that the red states also have more economic diversity within neighborhoods because of less stringent zoning requirements.

 

Bur I'm afraid you're right -- New Jersey is one of the least likely places to ever change.

[Stonecoldchavez 92]

Bob2222 -

 

How do ou explain why NJ is red state then? I am figuring the large minority population that live in cities, the NJEA, and other unions. Democrats far our number registered Republicans in this state.

 

I agree with you about the South.

[Bob2222 317]

I think the party breakdown in New Jersey is 33% D, 20% R, 47% I. "Independents" are the largest single bloc, although their overall bias tends to be liberal.

 

Anyway, I have a theory is that the more stringent zoning requirements in the blue states lead to less diverse neighborhoods. Not just New Jersey but all over the northeast and New England.

 

In New Jersey, the Mount Laurel decision has been moving things in the direction of more economic neighborhood diversity, but the decision dates back to 1975, so implementation has been glacier-slow.

 

NJ suburbs are pretty safe and suburban schools are decent. I suspect that more exposure to the reality of life in the urban areas of the state would drive enough liberal suburbanites from their safe suburban cocoons to make a huge difference. If the NJSC ever mandated a true diversity in all NJ school classrooms to reflect the socioeconomic makeup of the state there would be an immense voter backlash.

 

Of the 10 US states with the highest African American populations, 7 are reliably red states, 2 are blue and 1 (Virginia) was red but is turning purple.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_African-American_population

I have seen no data to indicate that the voting patterns of African Americans are much different in red states than in blue states. The difference between red and blue states/2A permissive and 2A restrictive states/low-tax states and high-tax states would seem to mostly be in the voting patterns of the majority populations.