HVAC guys

[1LtCAP 4,264]

 been looking at the mitsubishi hvac units. any of you guys have any experience with them? i like the fact that they're ductless, and the outside unit looks kind of small. i'm looking, because right now, i have no a/c whatsoever at my house. mom's here most of the summer now, only going to visit my brother for about a month when it's her grand daughters birthday. she can't take the heat here, and running window units is killing me.

 

 thanks guys!

[DeerSlayer 241]

I personally sell Fujitsu, and LG. But I've heard nothing bad about Mitsubishi. I serviced one for one of my customers about 2 weeks ago.

[maintenanceguy 510]

I've bought dozens of mini splits.  I've installed several myself and had many installed by others - including Mitsubishi.  I like Mitsubishi the best.  Sanyo makes some really nice ones but the controls are not easy to program in english.  Fujitsu units are also good but I've had more repairs on the Fujitsu's than I have on the Mitusbishi's.

[djg0770 481]

Mitsubishi - I've been specifying them for close to 20 years.  They have longevity in the market, they make a good product.  The installers and service guys have already told you it's quality...

 

Sanyo was among the first to have multiple indoor units for one outdoor unit.

 

VRF units are out on the market - I haven't had enough experience with them yet to recommend or not recommend them at this point.

[Wikkie2204 0]

We have one in our firehouse, (late 1800's brick building) and it does the job in a wide open bunk/general living quarters with very high ceilings. I wouldn't hesitate to put one in my home as I'm currently running a window unit in my daughter's bedroom and a portable unit in my living room.

[djg0770 481]

Oh forgot to mention, they're quiet. Much quieter than your current window shakers and also quieter than most central ac systems.

[ted527 21]

we have used Sanyo (which is now Panasonic), Lennox, LG, and Fujitsu.  never really had any problems with any of them.

 

compared to a regular central system with existing duct work they are expensive but they are very efficient.

[heaterbob 53]

any of your Japanese duct less systems will serve you well.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

we have used Sanyo (which is now Panasonic), Lennox, LG, and Fujitsu.  never really had any problems with any of them.

 

compared to a regular central system with existing duct work they are expensive but they are very efficient.

the thing is i got nuthin' right now as far as ac, 'cept a window unit in my bedroom, mom's bedroom, and a haier portable in the living room.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

We have one in our firehouse, (late 1800's brick building) and it does the job in a wide open bunk/general living quarters with very high ceilings. I wouldn't hesitate to put one in my home as I'm currently running a window unit in my daughter's bedroom and a portable unit in my living room.

yea...i forgot to mention....my house is old. late 1800's early 1900's build. not a classic kind of old. more like a "built by drunken monkeys snorting crack on a bad acid trip in the middle of their periods" kind of old.  high ceilings, basically a giant heat leak in the winter, and a giant oven in the summer.

[remixer 1,645]

I personally sell Fujitsu, and LG. But I've heard nothing bad about Mitsubishi. I serviced one for one of my customers about 2 weeks ago.

 

Whats the overall idea of cost on a ductless ac / heat unit for lets say a 10 x 10 room?

[chris327 30]

Im hoping you have an upgraded electric service in your house? i have a 100 amp service that has no open breakers. And i believe for code you need a breaker just for a ductless unit. Ive been looking into doing it but 1 have a 100 amp that's full. so im converting electric stove to a gas one and that should free up a breaker and i can do the ductless. Check with some of the service and installers. Im just a home owner, but thats what my understanding.

[djg0770 481]

Remixer - Grainger "For the ones who get it done" - or at least use it to get an idea of pricing.

http://www.grainger.com/product/FRIEDRICH-Split-System-Air-Conditioner-WP153310/_/N-k00/Ntt-ductless+split?sst=All&s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/22XR46_AW01?$smthumb$

 

 

 

Chris327 - You can upgrade that panel very easily and have several options in increasing cost:

1 you can just add a sub-panel and move some circuits over.

2 you could get a 100 amp panel with more spaces in it and move everything over to that

3 you could get a 200 amp panel with more spaces, upgrade your service entrance feeders and move everything over.

 

There are a few guys on there that are electricians and would likely be willing to help without too much coercing.

[beachwhistle 28]

I've freed up space by converting some 15 amp circuit breakers over to piggyback breakers. It's like putting two breakers in one spot.

Depends on who made your panel as to availability of these breakers.

[T Bill 649]

I've used www.hvacdistribution.com.  Good prices, fast delivery.  Some Splits can be installed yourself.  Come with pre-charged units.

[Malsua 1,422]

I installed an 18000BTu LG Inverter mini-split and not only is it super quiet, it cools the bedroom (22x15) and most of the main house(Bedroom is a balcony over the main floor) and as far as I can tell by the electric bill, doesn't use any electricity.

 

Installing it was a pain, running the two copper lines, the drain and the electric but if your lines for the run are straightforward ,it's not bad at all.    My only suggestion is to plan the runs for the copper lines ahead of time.   You need big sweeping turns and such otherwise you'll kink the lines.  Ask me how I know.  

[1LtCAP 4,264]

Im hoping you have an upgraded electric service in your house? i have a 100 amp service that has no open breakers. And i believe for code you need a breaker just for a ductless unit. Ive been looking into doing it but 1 have a 100 amp that's full. so im converting electric stove to a gas one and that should free up a breaker and i can do the ductless. Check with some of the service and installers. Im just a home owner, but thats what my understanding.

the service was upgraded back when my grandparents were alive......about 25 years ago. i think it's a 110 amp service, but don't remember for sure. gonna hafta check that. also gonna hafta check to see if there's any free circuits. if not, i can always feed it off of my garage, which is fed directly through that panel though.....and i know there's free circuits in the garage.

[DeerSlayer 241]

Whats the overall idea of cost on a ductless ac / heat unit for lets say a 10 x 10 room?

For heat pump/ac for one 10x10 room. Probably around $3500-4k installed, including the electrician. As long as the condenser isn't a mile away from the head, and you have an outside wall to dump condensation out, instead of pumping it. Every job is a little different, but thats an average price I would say.

[remixer 1,645]

the room has an outside wall. electric is right there also

[DeerSlayer 241]

If the condenser can be placed outside the wall where the head is mounted then its less line set and wire the price would probably be more around the $3k to 3,500 range. Power only gets run to the condenser outside with a service disconnect, needs one dedicated double pole breaker. The power to the head comes from the condenser ran along with the copper refrigerant lines and condensate drain all inside of a conduit. Sounds like a fairly simple install your describing.

[DeerSlayer 241]

I've used www.hvacdistribution.com. Good prices, fast delivery. Some Splits can be installed yourself. Come with pre-charged units.

You still need a vacuum pump, gauge set for r410a, and a digital micron gauge. Technically if you're not EPA 608 certified type 1,2,3, or universal, then your not supposed to touch anything with refrigerant in it. The fines are astronomical if your caught. If your installation requires more lineset than what the compressor pre charge is you will also need to add refrigerant. That you cant buy or posses without the EPA card legally.

 

I guess you could install everything yourself then hire a certified HVAC contractor to vacuum it down and charge it for you though. I really don't know how they get away with selling pre charged units to the general public. Its a federal law not state that refrigerant is only sold to or handled by certified individuals.

[JonF 79]

Then how can anyone even buy a window AC unit? Or an automobile with air conditioning?

 

Don't they at least distinguish refrigerant sold for the purpose of filling vs sold precharged in an appliance for use for that appliance?

[DeerSlayer 241]

Then how can anyone even buy a window AC unit? Or an automobile with air conditioning?

 

Don't they at least distinguish refrigerant sold for the purpose of filling vs sold precharged in an appliance for use for that appliance?

if your talking about a window unit, dehumidifier or a refrigerator thats different they are type 1 appliances and the system is hermetically sealed. Automobiles use R134A thats safe to vent into the atmosphere, its sold at every autoparts store no certification required.

 

A split unit AC system is not hermetically sealed, it has ports that can be vented to the atmosphere. We have to actually install locking caps now at the Schrader valves. R410a isn't 100% environmentally friendly. The reason you have to pass a test and be certified to buy it. The linesets have to be connected from the condenser to the head, then nitrogen tested (I go to 300psi), next moisture must be removed via vacuum pump. Then the valves are opened on the compressor filling the liquid/ vapor lines and coil in the head. A leak would be found before the refrigerant is released by a pro during the pressure test.

 

Joe homeowner.... well there goes the ozone layer ohh well. IMO if you're not certified and have the knowledge of what your dealing with, you shouldn't be able to buy it. There is no amendment in the bill of rights guaranteeing the right to keep and bare freeon or dangerous refrigerants.

 

Basically the same reason you can buy aspirin at the store over the counter but not morphine, need a script for that.

[Malsua 1,422]

I guess you could install everything yourself then hire a certified HVAC contractor to vacuum it down and charge it for you though. I really don't know how they get away with selling pre charged units to the general public. Its a federal law not state that refrigerant is only sold to or handled by certified individuals.

 

This is what I did.   As part of my remodel, I had the electrician run the disconnect to the spot(although it would have been trivial for me to do).  I mounted the condenser, the wall unit, ran the copper, the drain and the wires to the inside.   Once it was all in place, my neighbor who is a licensed hvac guy came and did the leak test and had to add a little  since my lines were around 35 feet and the unit had enough for 25 in it.     I bought the unit from Supply house(formerly pex supply).   I paid neighbor $200 bucks for his time and refrigerant and was into the electrician for $150.    I don't recall how much the permit was, but it was probably another 50 or so.  All in, LG 18,000 btu 18 seer for roughly $2500.00.

[DeerSlayer 241]

Not bad who's your electrician, mine hits me for around $450 for the service disconnect, breaker, line and whip to the unit.

[DeerSlayer 241]

You basically saved all the installation labor, the equipment costs me about the same price. Maybe a little less.

[Malsua 1,422]

Not bad who's your electrician, mine hits me for around $450 for the service disconnect, breaker, line and whip to the unit.

 

It was part of an entire remodel, with new service, new panel, and every in the entire house for about $8500.   Running the wire when there's no drywall or insulation and into a new panel is the only reason it was so cheap.   I had to provide my own liquid tight from the disconnect to the unit and I wired that part myself.   With everything in now, it would be a ton more I'm sure and I would just do it myself.

[DeerSlayer 241]

It was part of an entire remodel, with new service, new panel, and every in the entire house for about $8500. Running the wire when there's no drywall or insulation and into a new panel is the only reason it was so cheap. I had to provide my own liquid tight from the disconnect to the unit and I wired that part myself. With everything in now, it would be a ton more I'm sure and I would just do it myself.

Gotcha.

[Malsua 1,422]

You basically saved all the installation labor, the equipment costs me about the same price. Maybe a little less.

 

Right, I did the same thing for my whole house 14kw standby Generator.   I did everything but wiring the actual transfer switch in to the house current and generator.   I did all the scut work myself and ended up only spending about $500 in labor over what I had in the unit and site prep itself.

[DeerSlayer 241]

Right, I did the same thing for my whole house 14kw standby Generator. I did everything but wiring the actual transfer switch in to the house current and generator. I did all the scut work myself and ended up only spending about $500 in labor over what I had in the unit and site prep itself.

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