Zeke 5,504 Posted July 31, 2014 Emancipation proclamation, um, aren't all people created equal? Maybe CO's will join our fight now. Cause, if that guy is at walmart, I may bump into him also..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted July 31, 2014 No super powers the tights are still the same. You have the right to come work in a correctional facility at any time you wish. Then when you are with your family in walmart and you see that smart ass thug that threatened you while behind bars, suddenly you will be glad that you are allowed to carry off duty! In reference to the OP, the guy was prior LEO... not retired not current therefor he is kinda stuck and labeled as civilian who in NJ for some reason aren't allowed to carry. I don't agree with it and am just glad in the career path that I chose. I pray for the day NJ gets CCW and Shall Issue without JN. I can promise you that nearly EVERY SINGLE state, county and federal correctional facility in NJ needs more CO's! Come on out and play!! Friend, I understand where you're coming from. My aunt and uncle were court cops; uncle Ralph became a prison guard. It's a horrendous job. You're always dealing with scumbags. I get it. However, they have a rule. You have to serve a certain amount of time or you become an ordinary citizen. In most other states that simply means you don't get the LEO badge; you apply for another one and you automatically get it. In this state it means you're screwed like the rest of us. Sorry, no sympathy. Not a smidgen. You have no more right to carry a gun for self defense than I do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heaterbob 53 Posted July 31, 2014 wtf treated like an ordinary citizen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blksheep 466 Posted August 1, 2014 Emancipation proclamation, um, aren't all people created equal? Maybe CO's will join our fight now. Cause, if that guy is at walmart, I may bump into him also..... He wasnt a CO. Its like a cop that quits, I have know a few. If they dont RETIRE one way or another they are just another guy. If anyone has a case its the Class 2 kids. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wink-_-wink 1 Posted August 1, 2014 wtf treated like an ordinary citizen. I dont mean that disrespectfully but in PRNJ that is how it has been working. I write my letters and call CC and my representatives, I vote, I am part of the NRA and support NJs fight. I think it is insanity the way we are treated. I am not saying that I am any better than anyone else here. I hope for a better NJ! I followed Drake and had huge hopes. Even as a LEO overed by LEOSA, I was told I was not going to be able to get a CCW. @Zeke "Maybe CO's will join our fight now. Cause, if that guy is at walmart, I may bump into him also....." When you run into him, he will not remember you taking all his contraband and locking him in the hole for X amount of days. He will not remember you taking his visits, commisary, phone calls, and interefering with his life the way he will me. Again as stated above, I am no better than the rest of you I am just trying to simmer some of the CO bashing. All I am sayign is if people think we have it so easy, they are welome to don some keys, a radio, a flashlight and walk a compound surrounded by the scum of the earth! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CAPTBIL3 10 Posted August 1, 2014 So my boss a former corrections officer of 7 years left the job at the end of last year due to knee problems from a combination of injury's from jumping out of planes when in the marines and the constant walking on concrete all day as a corrections officer. He left the job in good standing. He recently applied for a retired LEO carry permit and was denied. the reason given is that he did not retire however as far as his lawyer can tell their is no definition of retirement. He is appealing the decision. Does anyone know of any case law for a situation like this or can anyone point out where the state defines LEO retiremen. He should have spoken to one of his PBA 105 union reps regarding this issue.The way the pension/retirement works for NJDOC/NJJJC is that you are vested after 10 years. If you leave the job prior to the 10 year mark and your reason for retirement is not job related, They simply cash you out and say good luck. So YES the State is correct on this issue, He didn't retire. PRO 2A PRO CARRY FOR ALL 8 Years a CO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted August 1, 2014 What about the guy who drives around with on average $20k cash from customers? How about the guy that services ATMs and carries up to $75k cash on him? Totally beside the point. A guy who carries a lot of money around is no better than the guy who walks through a bad neighborhood to get to work, or for that matter me out for a stroll in a remote state park at 5:30 am. I was interested in Drake because I hoped it might open a door; I couldn't care less how many f-ing ATMs he services, or if his work required him to carry the crown jewels in a see-through plastic bag. No citizen's life is more valuable to society than any other's because of their job or former job. Once you start believing that you're accepting a caste system of sorts. Nor should we accept the notion that only people in "dangerous situations" have a right to defend themselves. My town has had a total of two murders in the last thirteen years, yet I can still be shot by someone robbing ShopRite when I visit later today. The 2nd Amendment says nothing about special privileges for court officers or retired police, nothing about carrying wads of cash or dangers lurking in Newark after midnight. It is a fundamental, constitutional right that "shall not be infringed." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chris327 30 Posted August 1, 2014 He wasnt a CO. Its like a cop that quits, I have know a few. If they dont RETIRE one way or another they are just another guy. If anyone has a case its the Class 2 kids. Im pretty sure the original drake case had a class 2 involved in it from essex county. I think he was issued a permit to drop off the case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JC_68Westy 1,024 Posted August 1, 2014 Totally beside the point. A guy who carries a lot of money around is no better than the guy who walks through a bad neighborhood to get to work, or for that matter me out for a stroll in a remote state park at 5:30 am. I was interested in Drake because I hoped it might open a door; I couldn't care less how many f-ing ATMs he services, or if his work required him to carry the crown jewels in a see-through plastic bag. No citizen's life is more valuable to society than any other's because of their job or former job. Once you start believing that you're accepting a caste system of sorts. Nor should we accept the notion that only people in "dangerous situations" have a right to defend themselves. My town has had a total of two murders in the last thirteen years, yet I can still be shot by someone robbing ShopRite when I visit later today. The 2nd Amendment says nothing about special privileges for court officers or retired police, nothing about carrying wads of cash or dangers lurking in Newark after midnight. It is a fundamental, constitutional right that "shall not be infringed." +1,000,000 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_j 0 Posted August 1, 2014 Totally beside the point. A guy who carries a lot of money around is no better than the guy who walks through a bad neighborhood to get to work, or for that matter me out for a stroll in a remote state park at 5:30 am. I was interested in Drake because I hoped it might open a door; I couldn't care less how many f-ing ATMs he services, or if his work required him to carry the crown jewels in a see-through plastic bag. No citizen's life is more valuable to society than any other's because of their job or former job. Once you start believing that you're accepting a caste system of sorts. Nor should we accept the notion that only people in "dangerous situations" have a right to defend themselves. My town has had a total of two murders in the last thirteen years, yet I can still be shot by someone robbing ShopRite when I visit later today. The 2nd Amendment says nothing about special privileges for court officers or retired police, nothing about carrying wads of cash or dangers lurking in Newark after midnight. It is a fundamental, constitutional right that "shall not be infringed." I am totally with you. I'm just pointing out how ludicrous any argument that LE and COs should be treated differently is, due to real or perceived danger because there are many civilians who live under danger daily. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fishnut 2,358 Posted August 1, 2014 Ok little update here. According to the captain in the state police that filed the appeal paperwork my boss will likely win the appeal. The reason is because the jail he worked for does not have any time limit (like 10 years as some here have said). The departmental policy is that he had to be in 10 years to receive pension benefits, it says nothing about 10 years to be considered retired. Just so all you haters know my boss is very pro2a and strongly supports CCW for all people not just cops and COs so you guys cam shut your pie holes. Newtonian- Where and when did you serve in active combat? you did say that you have fired more rounds than an ex marine that went to war and saw combat right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted August 1, 2014 When you run into him, he will not remember you taking all his contraband and locking him in the hole for X amount of days. He will not remember you taking his visits, commisary, phone calls, and interefering with his life the way he will me. Again as stated above, I am no better than the rest of you I am just trying to simmer some of the CO bashing. All I am sayign is if people think we have it so easy, they are welome to don some keys, a radio, a flashlight and walk a compound surrounded by the scum of the earth! I want to make perfectly clear that everyone understands and thanks you for the job you do. I could not do it. You deserve all the good things that your job brings, 100%, including a long, healthy, prosperous retirement. We're only calling out the unfairness of thinking that your right to self-defense is somehow greater than mine, or of a million other NJ residents who are not privileged to carry a gun but who may wish to FOR WHATEVER LAWFUL REASON. Don't be insulted by this either: I read all kinds of news and crime blotters. I can't remember the last time I heard of an ex-con going after a corrections officer, or even an arresting officer. It's practically unheard of this side of the loony bin. If anything I'd think they'd fear you and/or police. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted August 1, 2014 Newtonian- Where and when did you serve in active combat? you did say that you have fired more rounds than an ex marine that went to war and saw combat right? You're 100% correct. That was a stupid thing for me to write. Sorry. See my post above about "haters." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted August 1, 2014 If this wasn't joisey, this discussion would never happen. To both sides, soak that in. My wife should have every available tool to protect herself as yours, or you. Period Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_j 0 Posted August 1, 2014 If this wasn't joisey, this discussion would never happen. To both sides, soak that in. My wife should have every available tool to protect herself as yours, or you. Period I don't know why people don't get this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted August 1, 2014 I don't know why people don't get this. On another similar note, this is Joisey. So why we do still beat this topic over and over again and again and still come up with the same closing arguements? Everyone just keeps getting their underwear in a tighter knot. I'm surprised everyone don't sound like Mickey Mouse on Helium! Lol... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fapipa 3 Posted August 1, 2014 The strategy of "divide and conquer" is working as always. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_j 0 Posted August 1, 2014 On another similar note, this is Joisey. So why we do still beat this topic over and over again and again and still come up with the same closing arguements? Everyone just keeps getting their underwear in a tighter knot. I'm surprised everyone don't sound like Mickey Mouse on Helium! Lol... Maybe because some people aren't aware just how bad it is. I've been spending time in other states and their attitudes to guns and gun culture is a complete 180. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted August 1, 2014 Maybe because some people aren't aware just how bad it is. I've been spending time in other states and their attitudes to guns and gun culture is a complete 180. I know.... But it's just a round robin here. Same ol' ya know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_j 0 Posted August 1, 2014 I know.... But it's just a round robin here. Same ol' ya know? I talk to other people. Just today I invited a coworker to the range. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted August 1, 2014 I know.... But it's just a round robin here. Same ol' ya know?Definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.So, are you quitting? Making change? Or jus on for the ride? Status quo and round robin does not, will not, equal what is right. Ck your logic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted August 1, 2014 Definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. So, are you quitting? Making change? Or jus on for the ride? Status quo and round robin does not, will not, equal what is right. Ck your logic I didn't say I'm giving up. Where do you deduce that from? I'm referring to the same people arguing over the same thing. Like preaching to the choir, you know? It's like watching reruns of sitcoms. Or is that the same as insanity as you refer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted August 1, 2014 Put it away. I don't argue with people who reinterpret statements to just start flame wars. But to answer his remark... On for the long haul? I've owned guns longer than most of you were alive... I'm still here and have not given up! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted August 1, 2014 At least you I got you to think. It's all good. If you le guys could calm down, you'd realize our blood is as red as yours. Our jobs maybe different, but you guys should know this all to well, our lives face the same dangers everyday. Btw, my stepfather is detective, I'm not a hater by any means. My stepfather is a good man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wink-_-wink 1 Posted August 1, 2014 Don't be insulted by this either: I read all kinds of news and crime blotters. I can't remember the last time I heard of an ex-con going after a corrections officer, or even an arresting officer. It's practically unheard of this side of the loony bin. If anything I'd think they'd fear you and/or police. For sake of arguement I could give you several news stories where off duty officer (both cops and COs as well as probation and parole officers) were targeted based on their careers. You may not be the arresting officer but same uniform so to them its the same. I am not insulted in any way. I wish NJ wasn't as terrible as it is. HOPEFULLY the stars align and I get a job transfer to a facility in a different FREE state! Running isn't always the right answer but then again it isn't always the wrong answer either! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted August 1, 2014 For sake of arguement I could give you several news stories where off duty officer (both cops and COs as well as probation and parole officers) were targeted based on their careers. You may not be the arresting officer but same uniform so to them its the same. I am not insulted in any way. I wish NJ wasn't as terrible as it is. HOPEFULLY the stars align and I get a job transfer to a facility in a different FREE state! Running isn't always the right answer but then again it isn't always the wrong answer either! This has been amended before to similar conversations. It's -not- just gun issues in NJ... For the folks that own homes vs property taxes, insurance, etc., just the cost of living makes me want to leave. 2A issues just helps ice the cake. As for targets, we are all targets if we are in the right place/wrong time. But any uniform is a more desired target. This includes -any- first responder. People are just vindictive and nuts! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wink-_-wink 1 Posted August 1, 2014 As for targets, we are all targets if we are in the right place/wrong time. But any uniform is a more desired target. This includes -any- first responder. People are just vindictive and nuts! When the bloods were targeting officers (again not just cops according to the threat), I stopped wearing my uniform top to work and put it on when I got there as well as hid the shield from my windshield.... too cautious? whatever! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted August 1, 2014 When the bloods were targeting officers (again not just cops according to the threat), I stopped wearing my uniform top to work and put it on when I got there as well as hid the shield from my windshield.... too cautious? whatever! All about staying safe man.... Whatever it takes... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stonecoldchavez 92 Posted August 2, 2014 The strategy of "divide and conquer" is working as always. Exactly. All LEO's here and their unions should be like the Sheriff's in Colorado, going on TV and radio, saying they are against NJ's anti-gun laws. What would the politicians do if the police and CO unions march with us in Trenton to allow CCW for all law-abiding citizens? They would have a coronary..... I would love to see ONE county Sheriff in NJ come out and say they are for CCW for NJ citizens. Never happen though as they are elected "politicians" from largely Democratic areas. How come the FOP and PBA don't come out to support the NRA, NJ2AS, etc.???? I know plenty of LEO's who are in the NRA.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
