Generators ready?

[ted527 21]

you wouldnt be able to install an interlock in that situation.

 

I do the same thing, I have 60 amp 220v running from my main house panel out to my detached garage that has its own panel.

 

I wired the generator outlet to the garage panel, in the event of a emergency situation I back feed generator power through my garage back to the main.

 

Everybody here is acting like these scenarios will not work if you dont have an interlock switch, all an interlock does it make it absolutely dummy proof so that you can not physically have both breakers on at the same time. Just dont be a retard and turn the main back on while you are on gen. power.

I don't think anyone said it wouldn't work.

It is not legal by code because it is not "dummy proof"

You may never do it, he may never do it but what if your not around and someone does your wife or mom a favor and kills someone by not shutting off the main? Your ass would be on the line for it.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

you wouldnt be able to install an interlock in that situation.

 

I do the same thing, I have 60 amp 220v running from my main house panel out to my detached garage that has its own panel.

 

I wired the generator outlet to the garage panel, in the event of a emergency situation I back feed generator power through my garage back to the main. 

 

Everybody here is acting like these scenarios will not work if you dont have an interlock switch, all an interlock does it make it absolutely dummy proof so that you can not physically have both breakers on at the same time. Just dont be a retard and turn the main back on while you are on gen. power.

No one said it wouldnt work. The only place allowed by code to back feed is through the main box. An interlock does much more then just prevent back feeding, It makes your house compliant to code. Even an unrelated problem like an electrical fire could get you in trouble if that's found. All an insurance company has to say is your home was not wired correctly.

[Malsua 1,422]

Not that I suggest back feeding, but I don't believe that the breakers on your genset would hold up to however many amps your street would draw. 

 

This is not to say you couldn't kill someone, specially a lineman at your transformer, I just don't think the backfed line would stay energized more than a few hundred milliseconds. 

 

I'd be interested if this has ever been tested just as a thought experiment. 

[ted527 21]

Google "linemen killed by generator back feed"

Happens more than you could imagine, reason for the code.

[tattooo 220]

Google "linemen killed by generator back feed"

Happens more than you could imagine, reason for the code.

Yep...just cause you dont hear about it dont mean it dont happen

[Malsua 1,422]

Google "linemen killed by generator back feed"

Happens more than you could imagine, reason for the code.

 

Funny, but if you google that particular quote, you get zero results .  I realize this has happened.  Almost every one of those cites however refer to one case in 2005.     It was probably a very large generator improperly installed and the court case didn't even discuss the generator.   My question however is that we're talking about portable generators continuously backfeeding your neighborhood.  

 

If the breakers are open on your transformer, your lines will certainly be hot and it's possible downed wires could also be hot.  I'm not questioning that someone could be killed.   What I'm asking is if a 30amp 220v generator could supply voltage to a neighborhood without tripping the breakers in milliseconds.  I don't think it can.

[GrumpyOldRetiree 38]

Not that I suggest back feeding, but I don't believe that the breakers on your genset would hold up to however many amps your street would draw. 

 

This is not to say you couldn't kill someone, specially a lineman at your transformer, I just don't think the backfed line would stay energized more than a few hundred milliseconds. 

 

I'd be interested if this has ever been tested just as a thought experiment. 

Wouldn't it depend on where the line came down? If the feeder to your house broke and came down and was laying on your lawn/driveway then there might not be enough draw to trip the genny breaker, but the lines would still be energized.

Either way, for the average homeowner, its cheap enough to do correctly and eliminate the possibility of harming anyone.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

The biggest problem that I see with this method is cable sizing........

 

It was mentioned.....UTILIZE THE LARGEST AND SHORTEST cable length possible.

 

Many a home has burned down because someone had the bright idea of plugging the generator into the dryer feed and the cable couldn't carry the current and overheated.

the line i'm feeding through feeds my entire garage from the house panel. the particular circuit in the garage was used for my old arc welder, and is more than capable. the only difference will be that the garage will be supporting the house during an emergency, rather than the other way 'round.

[Sota 1,191]

The biggest problem that I see with this method is cable sizing........

 

It was mentioned.....UTILIZE THE LARGEST AND SHORTEST cable length possible.

 

Many a home has burned down because someone had the bright idea of plugging the generator into the dryer feed and the cable couldn't carry the current and overheated.

to be specific, it's not because the feeder wires overheated, but because the averag/older dryer install was a 10/2 or 8/2 wiring job. It was never designed to carry two legs of 120 (which is a 3-wire hookup) and not a pure 240 connection. as such what winds up happening is all the return current from the imbalance gets shuttled down the BARE ground wire... that's what overheats and causes a fire. depending on the wire gauge the ground can be a smaller gauge versus the load wires. think back to the bad old days of knob and tube wiring and you'll understand.

[Handyman 5,682]

Friendly advice: if you need to go on an internet forum for electrical advice, hire an electrician. Save the internet for things less likely to kill you like carpentry, plumbing and sex.

[tattooo 220]

Friendly advice: if you need to go on an internet forum for electrical advice, hire an electrician. Save the internet for things less likely to kill you like carpentry, plumbing and sex.

Truer words were never spoken

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Friendly advice: if you need to go on an internet forum for electrical advice, hire an electrician. Save the internet for things less likely to kill you like carpentry, plumbing and sex.

I learn everything via the internet... =)

[PK90 3,570]

Friendly advice: if you need to go on an internet forum for electrical advice, hire an electrician. Save the internet for things less likely to kill you like carpentry, plumbing and sex.

And guns?

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

 

[EX Carnival man 223]

Funny, but if you google that particular quote, you get zero results .  I realize this has happened.  Almost every one of those cites however refer to one case in 2005.     It was probably a very large generator improperly installed and the court case didn't even discuss the generator.   My question however is that we're talking about portable generators continuously backfeeding your neighborhood.  

 

If the breakers are open on your transformer, your lines will certainly be hot and it's possible downed wires could also be hot.  I'm not questioning that someone could be killed.   What I'm asking is if a 30amp 220v generator could supply voltage to a neighborhood without tripping the breakers in milliseconds.  I don't think it can.

The day after Sandy I walked my neighborhood when the water went down.  I saw some very unsafe generator hookup's . Not one lineman got electrocuted with all the generators running in the state after sandy.  That was just my neighborhood. No lineman will EVER assume a line is dead. If he does he's not going to live very long.  That's just as crazy as thinking your gun is unloaded.  

[10X 3,300]

The day after Sandy I walked my neighborhood when the water went down.  I saw some very unsafe generator hookup's . Not one lineman got electrocuted with all the generators running in the state after sandy.  That was just my neighborhood. No lineman will EVER assume a line is dead. If he does he's not going to live very long.  That's just as crazy as thinking your gun is unloaded.  

 

Our power was out for 9 days.   I wonder how much faster it could have been restored if the power company didn't have to waste all that time going house to house trying to figure out which idiots were back feeding the grid with their bubba'd generator hookups?

 

Also, it's one thing to confirm a line is dead--of course the lineman will do that before starting work.   The problem lies with the aforementioned idiots, any of whom might start back feeding the line while the repair work is in progress.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

And guns?

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

same thing i guess?

[mipafox 438]

The day after Sandy I walked my neighborhood when the water went down.  I saw some very unsafe generator hookup's . Not one lineman got electrocuted with all the generators running in the state after sandy.  That was just my neighborhood. No lineman will EVER assume a line is dead. If he does he's not going to live very long.  That's just as crazy as thinking your gun is unloaded.

You would think they would be required to meet the minimum standards of General Industry, with respect to Control of Hazardous Energy 29 CFR 1910.147. But, alas, they have a carveout in 1926, even though they are not qualified personnel performing active electronic troubleshooting that requires the equipment to be energized to get the job done.

[mipafox 438]

Our power was out for 9 days.   I wonder how much faster it could have been restored if the power company didn't have to waste all that time going house to house trying to figure out which idiots were back feeding the grid with their bubba'd generator hookups?

 

They shouldn't have to. That's like asking your neighbors if their guns are loaded before pointing all of them at your head, one at a time, and pulling the triggers.

 

How would that be a reasonable safety procedure? Checking for a hazardous energy source at 1:00 in the afternoon is not the same as isolating a potential hazardous energy source. Give me a gun for a few hours after you make sure it is cleared. I'll give it back to you and you can point it at your head and pull the trigger. When you have a new hole in your head, you can say, "Hey, I checked that a few minutes ago."

 

It is isolated or it is not. I checked this morning doesn't mean shit when you point it at your head. Counting on idiots to do the right thing with their electrical service (or have their guns cleared) is also stupid.

 

They should be isolating all potential sources of hazardous energy (not just electrical), or using qualified personnel procedures if they WANT power in the line while working on it, or otherwise use fail-safe procedures that would provide the same protection as an energy isolation device and program. Which is a damn high standard.