Keegan 1 Posted December 11, 2015 I've decided to do my first AR build and I cannot get a clear answer, I'm sure I will get it here.. In NJ, does a muzzle break or compensater on a threaded barrel that is already 16" need to be pinned and welded to make it NJ legal? Or will pinning it alone make it legal? Thanks in advance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,730 Posted December 11, 2015 Just pinned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT Custom Guns 957 Posted December 12, 2015 ^ Correct! Only time a Muzzle devise would need to be welded is if the barrel is less than 16' before the devise is installed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,325 Posted December 12, 2015 Just pinned. Okay, so all I need to do is drill a hole into the brake and and a couple millimeters into the barrel then insert a steel roll pin so that the brake won"t turn??? That's it??? I payed a local gunsmith 85 bucks to weld my last brake on and he did a shit job!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted December 12, 2015 This gets tricky, so bear with me. There is nothing in the statutes or the NJAC about a "permanently attached" muzzle device. They simply say that flash suppressors or threaded barrels that support the attachment of a flash suppressor are one of the disqualifying evil features. People generally get around the suppressor prohibition by using a muzzle brake or compensator. If those devices are not permanently attached, they are not considered to be the barrel, which means the threaded barrel prohibition is still in force. There is nothing in the statutes or NJAC as to what constitutes "permanently attached", for that we have to look to the BATFE. If the device is blind pinned, it must be welded over, thus making it permanent and actually the barrel, so the threads are no longer a consideration. If you just pin the device without welding over it, you have one evil feature too many (on your AR), and are subject to arrest. Adios, Pizza Bob My interpretation and IANAL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Golf battery 1,223 Posted December 12, 2015 Johnny. Im surprised at you not knowing that. Is that really you that posted. Or has someone holding you hostage made you post that!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,325 Posted December 12, 2015 Johnny. Im surprised at you not knowing that. Is that really you that posted. Or has someone holding you hostage made you post that!!!! Two people responded "just Pinned"! Since OP is new to the forum, I wanted it clarified that pinned and welded (or just welded will also work) is the proper answer! I once went to my gunsmith with an upper and a new brake and told him I needed it pinned and welded. He informed me I was wrong about the need for both and said it only needed to be welded! I asked him if the law ever changed how I could get that brake off, he said proudly, "the way I welded it, no one could ever get it off without destroying the barrel"! Bastard!!! A pin or a blind welded pin would certainly be the best choice cosmetically but you can still drill through the pin or even the blind weld and pin and remove the device! There ain't no way mine is ever coming off!!! I tried filing down the weld to make it look better but the bastard must have used Kryptonite or something so I gave up and used a black Sharpie marker on it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,325 Posted December 12, 2015 Jack, I find your post totally devoid of thought due to the fact there were no words, symbols or emoticons used! :-) Interesting though since it can be interpreted many ways! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT Custom Guns 957 Posted December 12, 2015 Because i could not delete the post i had started, I erased my comment and left it at that............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,325 Posted December 12, 2015 Because i could not delete the post i had started, I erased my comment and left it at that............. Jack, As an FFL, was my FFL right that a pin was not needed if properly welded??? I would love to hear that I can drill in a pin and silver solder to neatly cover the pin!!!! It would save me a trip to the gun smith on my next build!!! I really want your opinion! My above post was meant to be funny, not sarcastic in any way shape or form!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT Custom Guns 957 Posted December 12, 2015 I have asked both the ATF & the NJSP FIU (Firearms unit) and both concur that the barrel does not require welding unless the barre is less than 16' in length - then the NFA rules apply to the addition of a barrel extension to make said barrel a legal length of 16". We have been doing barrels for years, and we do not weld them, we pin them, but we do not use a roll pin, we use a hand made sold pin that is pressed in, and I have been inspected by both agencies and they have said it is perfectly legal - no issues. But, i do understand that NJ laws being so gray, that people can interpret them in many ways, but I choose to do it my way, and we stand behind our work......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,325 Posted December 12, 2015 I have asked both the ATF & the NJSP FIU (Firearms unit) and both concur that the barrel does not require welding unless the barre is less than 16' in length - then the NFA rules apply to the addition of a barrel extension to make said barrel a legal length of 16". We have been doing barrels for years, and we do not weld them, we pin them, but we do not use a roll pin, we use a hand made sold pin that is pressed in, and I have been inspected by both agencies and they have said it is perfectly legal - no issues. But, i do understand that NJ laws being so gray, that people can interpret them in many ways, but I choose to do it my way, and we stand behind our work......... Thanks Jack! Do you think I could I use a heavy steel rolled pin since I have no way to make a solid pin by hand??? I wish I lived closer to you! You should see the crappy weld I paid $85.00 for! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT Custom Guns 957 Posted December 12, 2015 My machinist recommends against using roll pins, so I have to go by his expert opinion and say to stay away fro ma roll pin in this application. When pinning a stock a roll pin works just fine.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,325 Posted December 12, 2015 Thanks, How far are you from Gloucester County??? I never heard of Lacey Twp! Sounds North to me! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted December 12, 2015 I use solid pins, but weld over them to keep them from falling out. IMO, only pinning is needed. Sent from an undisclosed location. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,325 Posted December 12, 2015 Jack, Not so bad, just a trip East it seems! Still an hour drive! Is there a way I could make an appointment and wait for the upper?? Or would I have to leave it with you??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,325 Posted December 12, 2015 I use solid pins, but weld over them to keep them from falling out. IMO, only pinning is needed. Sent from an undisclosed location. Would silver solder be okay in such a case??? I have no access to welding equipment and a trip to your shop, although enjoyable, would not be feasible for me right now! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT Custom Guns 957 Posted December 12, 2015 Pm sent................. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n4p226r 105 Posted December 12, 2015 I've never seen a 14.5" barrel welded to make it 16". Are you sure that's required by law? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted December 12, 2015 All rifle barrels must be 16" or longer and 26" overall by Federal law (CA law OAL is 30" for SA) or be classified as SBRs. Shotgun is 18" barrel, This is why the Tavor has the longer barrel on Ban state compliant variant. Any shorter and the Feds have rules about being compliant, like welding on muzzle devices to make length. My 458 is configured that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted December 12, 2015 I've never seen a 14.5" barrel welded to make it 16". Are you sure that's required by law? No, it's not - at least not perimeter welding. Pin and weld over the pin is all that is needed to make whatever you are attaching count as barrel. I.e. A 2.5" comp on a 14.5" barrel becomes a non-NFA 16" after pinning and welding over the pin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carl_g 568 Posted December 12, 2015 I've never seen a 14.5" barrel welded to make it 16". Are you sure that's required by law? Yes. If a barrel is shorter than 16 inches in length for a rifle, it is considered a SBR and requires a NFA tax stamp. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted December 12, 2015 A rifle subject to the NFA has a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length. The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Golf battery 1,223 Posted December 12, 2015 Somebody better tell lwrc that. All their 14.5 barrels are pinned and welded over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted December 12, 2015 Did you read the quote from the BATFE? That is how it is supposed to be done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Golf battery 1,223 Posted December 12, 2015 Who Bob ? Me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n4p226r 105 Posted December 13, 2015 My mistake. When someone says pinned, I assume they meant the pin welded over. I was under the impression they were saying the brake had to be welded in addition to that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT Custom Guns 957 Posted December 14, 2015 When making a 14.5" bbl (or any BBL shorter than 16") a non-NFA item, the extension or Brake must be welded. The ATF will accept if it's pinned, but that pin must be welded over the hole. Of course you could just weld the ext. to barrel and not use a pin if you so choose. if the BBL is 16" + than all the is required is to pin the MB to the BBL. Some choose to weld over as well, but it is not required by NJ law......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Golf battery 1,223 Posted December 14, 2015 Why is barrel abbreviated bbl when there is only one b in barrel? Wouldnt that be be barrbel? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites