Operation Strikeforce

[Princetonian58 53]

I listened to the GFH Radio show this week addressing the recent AG's directives on permitting, etc. I was struck by the extended discussion about recalcitrant municipalities like Hanover Park whose chief sits on applications for months on end, even for officers who live there but work elsewhere.

 

Operation Strikeforce was announced about two years ago. Everyone knows that certain towns have never and will never obey the law voluntarily. Why has there not been at least one lawsuit, just one, taking on one of these dug in towns? I can see the merit of trying to work things out short of litigation with a town that may be ignorant of the ban on added requirements and the 30 day requirement but the show demonstrates there are others that will not comply until faced with with a court order and perhaps relief stripping them of their right to handle applications in favor of the State Police, etc. How about some action ANJRPC?

[brucin 923]

Litigation costs a lot of money. Not too many people have the disposable income to spend on it even if their constitutional rights are being violated. 

[oldguysrule649 397]

I recall there was a recent lawsuit against Jersey City for their use of extra forms. The courts ruled in favor of the applicant. If I find the details, I will post a link.

[ogfarmer 138]

its on Evan Nappens website

 

I recall there was a recent lawsuit against Jersey City for their use of extra forms. The courts ruled in favor of the applicant. If I find the details, I will post a link.

[Princetonian58 53]

Litigation costs a lot of money. Not too many people have the disposable income to spend on it even if their constitutional rights are being violated.

 

Yes it does, that's one of the reasons ANJRPC collects dues for.

[Princetonian58 53]

its on Evan Nappens website

I read that opinion, thanks. That was a private case brought by a guy via Nappen who was denied his permit because of extra requirements, I believe. As I understand Operation Strikeforce, however, suits were to be filed on a broad basis akin to a class action or for a declaration of rights for all similarly situated applicants.

[Kevin125 4,772]

If a group like ANJRPC made an effective pitch for support to pursue a lawsuit against a municipality, they might get the support of enough 2A supporters (I didn't say gun owners for a reason) ...in the form of contributions, giving them a fund big enough to mount a substantial lawsuit that included a claim for damages.

 

These towns believe they have nothing to worry about because they believe 2A supporters in NJ are weak and won't do anything of consequence.

[siderman 1,138]

Yes it does, that's one of the reasons ANJRPC collects dues for.

the other reason is to pay the head of the org a very nice salary. Not important anyway because CC has our back with   ATTORNEY GENERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT DIRECTIVE NO. 20l6-4

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/directives/2016-4_Permits-to-Carry-Firearms_Directive.pdf

 

See- no worrys!

[Smokin .50 1,907]

If a group like ANJRPC made an effective pitch for support to pursue a lawsuit against a municipality, they might get the support of enough 2A supporters (I didn't say gun owners for a reason) ...in the form of contributions, giving them a fund big enough to mount a substantial lawsuit that included a claim for damages.

 

These towns believe they have nothing to worry about because they believe 2A supporters in NJ are weak and won't do anything of consequence.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

 

And for Pricetonian58, yes ANJRPC collects an annual dues, most of which goes into providing each $40 Annual Member with a professionally-printed newsletter entitled, "News and Briefs".  If you think that the few pennies left-over from printing and mailing this newsletter 6 times a year is going to put a dent in the litigator's invoice for which a War Chest is needed to fund a real court battle, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn that's FOR SALE, lol!

 

 

To ALL on the thread:

 

In the Battle that is 2A in New Jersey, there's only 3 ways to "cut the mustard":  

 

TIME:  Volunteer to chair or be on a committee of an active 2A Organization (or OMG, become an officer w/ fiduciary responsibilities).

 

TALENT:  Give something you're good at making to a 2A Organization, such as a professional service or something that folks will bid on at a charity raffle.

 

TREASURE:  Open-up the checkbook and be a BIG supporter, like hundreds or thousands of dollars. 

 

 

CLICKTIVISM IS ALIVE AND WELL..............We all have grandiose ideas about what we'd do with some loose change if WE were in-charge.  Trouble is that loose change hardly ever sees the bank account and/or War Chest of a 2A Organization.

 

Wanna do some good with YOUR Time, Talent or treasure?  Look me up, because together we stand a chance of getting SOMETHING DONE!

 

Thanks for reading!

 

David Rosenthal, VP

Coalition of New Jersey Firearm Owners (CNJFO)

http://www.cnjfo.com

http://www.JustifiableNeed.com

[PK90 3,570]

the other reason is to pay the head of the org a very nice salary. Not important anyway because CC has our back with ATTORNEY GENERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT DIRECTIVE NO. 20l6-4

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/directives/2016-4_Permits-to-Carry-Firearms_Directive.pdf

 

See- no worrys!

Thanks for posting this.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk.

[siderman 1,138]

Thanks for posting this.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk.

Then you'll want to look at this-

http://www.nj.gov/oag/newsreleases16/pr20160408a.html

[bhunted 887]

I just want to say one thing about the faster pushing of apps and ccw for threatened people. Not to knock this first stage of putting things right.
(I'm having trouble trying to word this right so bear with me).

 

While it is great in a small step way, at this time, I see this not much better than a Restraining Order. In some cases a RO, is ignored and/or already too late. What I mean is, if an individual is threatened and is considered a viable person to ccw, it may just be too late for them too. If the person has already been threatened to a degree of life or limb, a ccw may be too late. This is why everyone should qualify. I hope I got my point across.

[CMJeepster 2,779]

I just want to say one thing about the faster pushing of apps and ccw for threatened people. Not to knock this first stage of putting things right.

(I'm having trouble trying to word this right so bear with me).

 

While it is great in a small step way, at this time, I see this not much better than a Restraining Order. In some cases a RO, is ignored and/or already too late. What I mean is, if an individual is threatened and is considered a viable person to ccw, it may just be too late for them too. If the person has already been threatened to a degree of life or limb, a ccw may be too late. This is why everyone should qualify. I hope I got my point across.

 

[Smokin .50 1,907]

We're fighting for Carol every day at CNJFO!  #CarolsLifeMatters and #JusticeForCarolBowne are under every post I make on our FB page!    June will be the 1 year anniversary of her murder.  I know the Ehly's are NOT looking forward to that date!

 

Dave

[bhunted 887]

I hope you are not tossing this in my face because you think my post reflects in a negative way. Cause I don't appreciate it. My point is and always will be to get people who suffered her fate, some way to arm themselves before is too late.. I want that. But if you feel I slighted her, you got my post all wrong. My point is she shouldn't have had to be threatened to get protection. She should have gotten her permit ASAP as all of us should be able to as well. Nobody should have to wait the bs time frames she did. All of us here that had lengthy waits and seen her case should feel like shit. Maybe she'd be alive today if this commie ass state didn't have its heads up their asses.

[bhunted 887]

We're fighting for Carol every day at CNJFO! #CarolsLifeMatters and #JusticeForCarolBowne are under every post I make on our FB page! June will be the 1 year anniversary of her murder. I know the Ehly's are NOT looking forward to that date!

 

Dave

Can't believe its that long already.

[CMJeepster 2,779]

I hope you are not tossing this in my face because you think my post reflects in a negative way. Cause I don't appreciate it. My point is and always will be to get people who suffered her fate, some way to arm themselves before is too late.. I want that. But if you feel I slighted her, you got my post all wrong. My point is she shouldn't have had to be threatened to get protection. She should have gotten her permit ASAP as all of us should be able to as well. Nobody should have to wait the bs time frames she did. All of us here that had lengthy waits and seen her case should feel like shit. Maybe she'd be alive today if this commie ass state didn't have its heads up their asses.

No way, man! Your description immediately made me think of Ms. Bowne's situation and probably the hundreds of similar situations where the state thinks that a piece of paper will be enough to protect a victim or potential victim from a person will ill intent. She had the RO, she had the security system, but she had no way to defend herself from that asshole. What's that famous saying? "God created man, but Sam Colt made them all equal." That rings oh so true in her sad story. If for anything else, she was not given a chance to defend her life thanks to the state and it's shitty system.

[CMJeepster 2,779]

Oh, and the genisis of my entry into firearm ownership is the belief that eavery individual has the human right of self-protection. My story is posted elsewhere, but this sums it up in a distilled form.

[Princetonian58 53]

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

 

And for Pricetonian58, yes ANJRPC collects an annual dues, most of which goes into providing each $40 Annual Member with a professionally-printed newsletter entitled, "News and Briefs".  If you think that the few pennies left-over from printing and mailing this newsletter 6 times a year is going to put a dent in the litigator's invoice for which a War Chest is needed to fund a real court battle, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn that's FOR SALE, lol!

 

 David, I know quite a bit about the cost of litigation and that cases of this nature are taken on at significant discount or pro bono at times. If ANJRPC only has pennies to litigate with then it should never have gone public with its promised Phase 3 of lawsuits against recalcitrant municipalities. Seems now like a hollow bit of saber rattling.

 

David Rosenthal, VP

Coalition of New Jersey Firearm Owners (CNJFO)

http://www.cnjfo.com

http://www.JustifiableNeed.com

[John Willett 70]

I'd like to offer an possible alternative perspective to this discussion.  While it might take a significant amount of time for Strikeforce to prove fruitful in a lawsuit, consider how long individual or small groups of cases against municipalities would take with over 400 possible targets.  It would seem that taking the time to identify as many who act in bad faith and refuse to correct their procedures and taking action on them at once, or in a couple large cases, is both more efficient and provides gun owners throughout the state with relief more quickly. 

[Smokin .50 1,907]

 

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

 

And for Pricetonian58, yes ANJRPC collects an annual dues, most of which goes into providing each $40 Annual Member with a professionally-printed newsletter entitled, "News and Briefs".  If you think that the few pennies left-over from printing and mailing this newsletter 6 times a year is going to put a dent in the litigator's invoice for which a War Chest is needed to fund a real court battle, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn that's FOR SALE, lol!

 

 David, I know quite a bit about the cost of litigation and that cases of this nature are taken on at significant discount or pro bono at times. If ANJRPC only has pennies to litigate with then it should never have gone public with its promised Phase 3 of lawsuits against recalcitrant municipalities. Seems now like a hollow bit of saber rattling.

 

David Rosenthal, VP

Coalition of New Jersey Firearm Owners (CNJFO)

http://www.cnjfo.com

http://www.JustifiableNeed.com

 

I never said they only have pennies to litigate with.  What I said was if YOU think a big portion of your $40 annual subscription to a newsletter gets earmarked for litigating, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you (I'm paraphrasing).   

 

My point is, it takes more than the act of writing a single $40 check to earn the right to bitch.  And for some reason, NJ has a LOT of folks that like to bitch but never belong to something, never volunteer to run a committee or even be active in ANY way.  All of their efforts, morning, noon and night, goes towards bitching...........

[Princetonian58 53]

I never said they only have pennies to litigate with.  What I said was if YOU think a big portion of your $40 annual subscription to a newsletter gets earmarked for litigating, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you (I'm paraphrasing).   

 

My point is, it takes more than the act of writing a single $40 check to earn the right to bitch.  And for some reason, NJ has a LOT of folks that like to bitch but never belong to something, never volunteer to run a committee or even be active in ANY way.  All of their efforts, morning, noon and night, goes towards bitching...........

With all due respect, that's exactly what you said. But if money to litigate is not the issue, then please enlighten me on the reason for the inaction. Just how long must it take to gather the facts necessary to show a town is using unauthorized forms, imposing unauthorized requirements and is not coming close to meeting the 30 day requirement?

 

And I would suggest, with respect, that any applicant who has been jerked around by his town contrary to the statute and contrary to the holding of the Appellate Division in the Jersey City case has the "right" to bitch about it. And they have the right to feel frustrated with a group they support that promises legal action, has the legal tools and the cash and/or manpower at its disposal, yet allows permitting abuses to continue, for years, in municipalities that will never comply voluntarily.

[Zeke 5,504]

With all due respect, that's exactly what you said. But if money to litigate is not the issue, then please enlighten me on the reason for the inaction. Just how long must it take to gather the facts necessary to show a town is using unauthorized forms, imposing unauthorized requirements and is not coming close to meeting the 30 day requirement?

 

And I would suggest, with respect, that any applicant who has been jerked around by his town contrary to the statute and contrary to the holding of the Appellate Division in the Jersey City case has the "right" to bitch about it. And they have the right to feel frustrated with a group they support that promises legal action, has the legal tools and the cash and/or manpower at its disposal, yet allows permitting abuses to continue, for years, in municipalities that will never comply voluntarily.

My friend, problem is you are the of the few. Most others are sheep.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Ah, the instant gratification generation. Do you realize that there are over 500 municipalities in NJ? How many lawyers do you think the ANJRPC employs? How many cases do you think they can juggle at once? This is a process, obviously not a quick enough one to satisfy you, that entails notifying each municipality in the hopes that it will comply voluntarily. Those that still don't comply have to get prioritized as to which ones are addressed first and then the whole legal process begins.

 

The system didn't get this way overnight and it certainly won't be "fixed" anytime soon. In the meantime, if you have a specific individual problem, feel free to tackle it yourself, instead of waiting for some organization to handle it for you - and when you realize the difficulty and expense that entails, multiply that by 500 and begin to have an understanding of the monumental task they are undertaking.

 

Yes, a lot of the problems could be fixed quickly with some well crafted legislation, but in a state with a democratically controlled legislature, that's not going to happen.

 

BTW - the 30 day processing limit has already been ajudicated (Adler v Litvak) and found not to apply - in the interest of public safety.

 

Rant over. Flame on.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Princetonian58 53]

Ah, the instant gratification generation. Do you realize that there are over 500 municipalities in NJ? How many lawyers do you think the ANJRPC employs? How many cases do you think they can juggle at once? This is a process, obviously not a quick enough one to satisfy you, that entails notifying each municipality in the hopes that it will comply voluntarily. Those that still don't comply have to get prioritized as to which ones are addressed first and then the whole legal process begins.

 

The system didn't get this way overnight and it certainly won't be "fixed" anytime soon. In the meantime, if you have a specific individual problem, feel free to tackle it yourself, instead of waiting for some organization to handle it for you - and when you realize the difficulty and expense that entails, multiply that by 500 and begin to have an understanding of the monumental task they are undertaking.

 

Yes, a lot of the problems could be fixed quickly with some well crafted legislation, but in a state with a democratically controlled legislature, that's not going to happen.

 

BTW - the 30 day processing limit has already been ajudicated (Adler v Litvak) and found not to apply - in the interest of public safety.

 

Rant over. Flame on.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Instant gratification. How long has Operation Strikeforce, and its promise of litigation been announced, Pizza Bob?

 

I'm curious to know why you would think 500 lawsuits would need to be filed. A small number (i.e., 2 or 3) against dug in towns sends a message, sets precedent and pushes the ball down the field. These are not complex issues. Are extra requirements being imposed or not? If the prospect of litigation is so daunting and overwhelming as you seem to believe why then did the Operation Permit Strikeforce announce it as a tool that would be used if needed?

 

There is no legal requirement to notify a town that its practices violate the law before suing though I wholeheartedly agree that this was the preferable course of action as voluntary compliance is clearly desirable. But let's face it, there are towns that have called the ANJRPC's bluff on going to the mat, so it will act on its published, promised action or it will not.

 

BTW, I'm not asking the ANJRPC to handle any specific individual problem. Let's not make this personal. I trust that you can see that there are those who feel that the ANJRPC's approach is too passive when it has the hammer of the law in its toolbox.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Instant gratification. How long has Operation Strikeforce, and its promise of litigation been announced, Pizza Bob?

 

I rest my case. Apparently you feel that a little over two years is adequate (Strike Force announced 02/2014) to make all the problems go away.

 

I'm curious to know why you would think 500 lawsuits would need to be filed. A small number (i.e., 2 or 3) against dug in towns sends a message, sets precedent and pushes the ball down the field. 

 

Because every town will wait until they are targeted - they have no incentive not to. Let's say a town is requiring additions to the process. ANJRPC sends a letter informing them that what they are doing is illegal. The town chooses to continue. ANJRPC now files a lawsuit (which means, first they must find someone with standing in that jurisdiction, in order to file). Once the suit is filed, the Municipality throws up their hands and drops the extra requirements before it ever comes to court - there is no penalty assessed. That is one town - repeat 500 times. Why would towns that aren't under any threat modify their practices? Remember, we are dealing with a heavily blue state and the dem's tactics are delay, delay, delay.

 

I trust that you can see that there are those who feel that the ANJRPC's approach is too passive when it has the hammer of the law in its toolbox.

 

How can they be any more aggressive if the towns they threaten with a lawsuit, give-up and comply? But it sets no precedent and will require the same scenario to take place with each municipality.

 

The individual action I was speaking of would be for the person wronged to file and official misconduct complaint with the DA of the municipality. Before that can be done, the person has to prove that the PD was knowingly adding illegal requirements to the process. With Gov. Christie's directive to all NJ PD's, that would be a given. The DA is required to fully investigate any complaint og official misconduct. Again, I'm afraid the result would be the same - town complies complaint is dropped and no one is held accountable. I was simply pointing out that if individuals are so impatient in watingfor  a larger entity to act on their behalf, they can undertake it themselves. Nothing personal intended.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Princetonian58 53]

PB,

 

The legal system doesn't work in the manner you describe. If you want to have an off-line discussion on this let me know. Otherwise, let's just agree to disagree as they say. We both seek the same goal but see different paths on how we ought to get there.

 

P.