Very first AR target grouping

[MichaelDiggs 29]

25 yards using a small pistol target with only iron sites. Very first time on the range with it. I can count all 15 bullet holes. And boy do I love shooting the rifle! I won't deny my pistols trigger time, but it is hard not to want to shoot a powerful rifle. I ordered an Aimpoint micro red dot H2 for it. Comes with the standard picatinny mount but I'm not sure if the optic is going to be sitting high enough to clear my iron backup site in front of it. Either I'll just remove the front iron site or see if I can find a mount that lifts the optic up just a little bit. I like low profile and don't want the optic sitting up in the air, but heck, it may even be easier to shoot and won't have to put my head into such a position. Anyone recommend a good mount that will clear the Magpul backup sites? I was eye balling this one hard.

 

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/736329/daniel-defense-aimpoint-micro-t-1-t-2-h-1-sight-mount-absolute-co-witness-matte?utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Optics+-+Scope+Rings%2C+Bases%2C+Mounting+%26+Accessories&utm_content=736329&cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Optics+-+Scope+Rings%2C+Bases%2C+Mounting+%26+Accessories-_-Daniel+Defense-_-736329&gclid=CjwKCAiAo9_QBRACEiwASknDwbpTqYnGV1VYCaga2oNUtKPdF42m2vMfXS7oTFfxiXwAwRU9WUaB3BoCf8MQAvD_BwE

 

Anyway, here is the target. Practice makes perfect!

 

[Zeke 5,504]

I heart my ar!

[Zeke 5,504]

21 hours ago, MichaelDiggs said:

25 yards using a small pistol target with only iron sites. Very first time on the range with it. I can count all 15 bullet holes. And boy do I love shooting the rifle! I won't deny my pistols trigger time, but it is hard not to want to shoot a powerful rifle. I ordered an Aimpoint micro red dot H2 for it. Comes with the standard picatinny mount but I'm not sure if the optic is going to be sitting high enough to clear my iron backup site in front of it. Either I'll just remove the front iron site or see if I can find a mount that lifts the optic up just a little bit. I like low profile and don't want the optic sitting up in the air, but heck, it may even be easier to shoot and won't have to put my head into such a position. Anyone recommend a good mount that will clear the Magpul backup sites? I was eye balling this one hard.

 

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/736329/daniel-defense-aimpoint-micro-t-1-t-2-h-1-sight-mount-absolute-co-witness-matte?utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Optics+-+Scope+Rings%2C+Bases%2C+Mounting+%26+Accessories&utm_content=736329&cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Optics+-+Scope+Rings%2C+Bases%2C+Mounting+%26+Accessories-_-Daniel+Defense-_-736329&gclid=CjwKCAiAo9_QBRACEiwASknDwbpTqYnGV1VYCaga2oNUtKPdF42m2vMfXS7oTFfxiXwAwRU9WUaB3BoCf8MQAvD_BwE

 

Anyway, here is the target. Practice makes perfect!

 

Co witness with red dot. I went with 1/3 cowitness. My adopted big brother beat  me fiercely to do it. HE was right... but HE didn’t have to hit soo hard.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Watch your breathing.  Vertical stringing like you have on your target is usually due to breathing. Inhale, exhale 1/2 way, hold it, align sights, shoot. With military sights I'd give that 4 clicks to the right at 25.  Military sights move the strike of a round 1" @ 100.  Do all this and you'll get all rounds in the 2" red square.  Move the target out to 50 until you get them all in the red square then 100.  Take your time.  Speed will come.

Do yourself a favor and learn to shoot with the iron sights before you put on a red dot.  Red dots are great, easy to acquire, and very helpful.  But learn iron sights first.

HE is right. Cowitness the front sight with the red dot.  I think it makes acquisition faster.

[Zeke 5,504]

i know @Ray Rayand @Displaced Texan Rock fixed front irons. I see the logic in it.

[High Exposure 5,664]

22 hours ago, MichaelDiggs said:

Anyone recommend a good mount that will clear the Magpul backup sites? I was eye balling this one hard.

 

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/736329/daniel-defense-aimpoint-micro-t-1-t-2-h-1-sight-mount-absolute-co-witness-matte?utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Optics+-+Scope+Rings%2C+Bases%2C+Mounting+%26+Accessories&utm_content=736329&cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Optics+-+Scope+Rings%2C+Bases%2C+Mounting+%26+Accessories-_-Daniel+Defense-_-736329&gclid=CjwKCAiAo9_QBRACEiwASknDwbpTqYnGV1VYCaga2oNUtKPdF42m2vMfXS7oTFfxiXwAwRU9WUaB3BoCf8MQAvD_BwE

You will not be able to use the H1 (or any RDS) on an AR without a proper mount that brings the optic up to the right height. 

That being said - I have 2 of those DD mounts for the Aimpoint T1 (one older model mount that is only lower 1/3, and one newer one with the spacer in to make it lower 1/3). They work perfectly.

Yes, lower 1/3 is the way to go.

There are arguments for both folded down BUIS and fixed front sights. Do what works for you.

My HD and Patrol carbines both have fixed front sights. My SWAT and training rifle has fold down BUIS.

[pasu0115 200]

58 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Watch your breathing.  Vertical stringing like you have on your target is usually due to breathing. Inhale, exhale 1/2 way, hold it, align sights, shoot. With military sights I'd give that 4 clicks to the right at 25.  Military sights move the strike of a round 1" @ 100.  Do all this and you'll get all rounds in the 2" red square.  Move the target out to 50 until you get them all in the red square then 100.  Take your time.  Speed will come.

Do yourself a favor and learn to shoot with the iron sights before you put on a red dot.  Red dots are great, easy to acquire, and very helpful.  But learn iron sights first.

HE is right. Cowitness the front sight with the red dot.  I think it makes acquisition faster.

Some great advice there from Griz!

 

[Displaced Texan 11,752]

Most of my AR’s have a flip down front sight (Colt 6944 uppers), but I keep them up. With a magnified optic (4x32 ACOG), I never see them. 

With my red dot equipped AR, I use a lower 1/3 co-witness. HE is right, it is the way to go. Still easy to acquire the irons if your red dot fails. 

[Zeke 5,504]

6 minutes ago, pasu0115 said:

Some great advice there from Griz!

 

@GRIZwould never give me advice! He jus beats me with a stick and says” no! You suck”.. abusive uncle figure .

[High Exposure 5,664]

2 minutes ago, Zeke said:

@GRIZwould never give me advice! He jus beats me with a stick and says” no! You suck”.. abusive uncle figure .

He uses what the student best responds to.

[Zeke 5,504]

6 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

He uses what the student best responds to.

[Displaced Texan 11,752]

Pain motivates!

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I guess I'm old school, as back up iron sights or folding sights are becoming non existent on defensive rifles.  

But, batteries fail, circuitry burns out, mounts break, shit happens.   Hence why irons are staying on my defensive rifles.

[MichaelDiggs 29]

I will take the recommendations here and listen. I'd rather get use to the BU sites first before mounting any red dot or electronics. I believe the red dot I purchased, combining that with the Daniel Defense mount will give me 1/3 perfectly. Not in a big rush to throw the red dot on, still dialing in the BU sites. I do have to work on my breathing. I was a bit excited and revved up since it was the first time loading it up and shooting it. And of course I skipped eating lunch that day and when I do that my body gets the sugar shakes a little bit which doesn't help much. Practice, practice and more practice. Thanks for all the tips! Much appreciated.

 

[High Exposure 5,664]

Iron sights are over rated if you are buying an aimpoint. There are only so many hours in a day and so many rounds Inna case of ammo. Spend your time and money training on what you will use the most. I only cover BUIS briefly and them we zero them, fold them down, and forget them. 

In 15 years of shooting ARs, I've never used irons unless I was zeroing them or training specifically to deploy them.

I agree with Ray Ray on their importance - even though at this point they are vistigial - and all of my rifles have them. I just never use them.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

20 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Iron sights are over rated if you are buying an aimpoint. 

Human error will be the issue you have, most of the time.  But yes, iron sights are almost a thing of the past.

[Zeke 5,504]

1 hour ago, MichaelDiggs said:

I will take the recommendations here and listen. I'd rather get use to the BU sites first before mounting any red dot or electronics. I believe the red dot I purchased, combining that with the Daniel Defense mount will give me 1/3 perfectly. Not in a big rush to throw the red dot on, still dialing in the BU sites. I do have to work on my breathing. I was a bit excited and revved up since it was the first time loading it up and shooting it. And of course I skipped eating lunch that day and when I do that my body gets the sugar shakes a little bit which doesn't help much. Practice, practice and more practice. Thanks for all the tips! Much appreciated.

 

You smart, don’t get beat with a stick; or some others vestigial items 

[silverado427 10,731]

A good trigger will also help tighten up your grouping.

[MichaelDiggs 29]

4 hours ago, silverado427 said:

A good trigger will also help tighten up your grouping.

Must have been reading my mind. I was thinking about asking BRO if they could just send me a trigger. I heard their trigger is very nice. Only 3.5 lb pull. Then I was checking out Timney, Geiselle, BRO, and others. Might seem odd, but I don't want to get the 'best' trigger there is. Something reliable that has stood the test of time and hopefully a drop in. The last thing I want to do is break out the files, dremel and start shaving off pieces to get a trigger to fit. Since the rifle is %100 mil-spec, won't any mil-spec trigger just drop in? 

Any recommendations on triggers? The current on in there is stock from Rebel, but there is no detailed info on it. Could be made by anyone really. Thanks fellas.

O by the way, just got a sling. A BlueForceGear 2 point. Simple and easy to use. Sewn in push buttons for quick disconnect. Special M-LOK adapter for the buttstock and need to grab another M-LOK adapter for the rail. Should of bought 2, wasn't thinking.

 

[High Exposure 5,664]

Geisselle SSA trigger. Reliable and effective.

/Discussion

[Zeke 5,504]

I have a Larue. But I heard Alg is good

[MichaelDiggs 29]

3 hours ago, High Exposure said:

Geisselle SSA trigger. Reliable and effective.

/Discussion

Was checking out opticsplanet, since they still have %11 off those triggers. Can you send me the Geisselle part number? They seem to have several SSA triggers all called different things. Like 'enhanced' and all that. They are also the same price. I believe in my mind I just would like a smooth, silky trigger that doesn't have a long throw ( is that what it's called ) or travel. I have a Walther PPQ M2 and like that trigger a lot. Wish it was lighter on the pull, but I have full control over it. I don't mind spending the money on such a critical part. You guys seem very knowledgeable - and nothing can beat real world experience and years in the field.

Thanks for the recommendations. Time to take a peek at some triggers.

[MichaelDiggs 29]

I just went with the SSA trigger. Such a good deal and sale I couldn't stop.

 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Good sights, good trigger, good barrel AND good ammo.  The human element is always #1 though.

[carl_g 568]

14 hours ago, Zeke said:

I have a Larue. But I heard Alg is good

how is that trigger? it's only 99 bucks!

[Zeke 5,504]

2 minutes ago, carl_g said:

how is that trigger? it's only 99 bucks!

@Displaced Texan didn’t like it. Seemed fine to me... it’s a 2 stage. 

[fatty 241]

I love the LaRue mbt trigger.  Have one in all my ARs

[Displaced Texan 11,752]

I prefer single stage triggers, like the ALG ACT, but if you’re into 2 stage triggers, the LaRue is hard to beat. 

[Zeke 5,504]

55 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said:

I prefer single stage triggers, like the ALG ACT, but if you’re into 2 stage triggers, the LaRue is hard to beat. 

I can see the logic in that. Especially with rules of safety 

[Contrvlr 17]

19 hours ago, MichaelDiggs said:

Was checking out opticsplanet, since they still have %11 off those triggers.

 

18 hours ago, MichaelDiggs said:

I just went with the SSA trigger. Such a good deal and sale I couldn't stop.

 

30% off at Geissele , shipped free