223/556 defensive ammo

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I was curious as to what the AR guys use for defensive use and/or home defense use?

I want to stock up on some while I can but I am not sure what is what.  Thanks.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Hornady Z-Max 55gr and IMI Razor Core 77gr OTM

[voyager9 3,434]

Hornady TAP 55gr

[Ray Ray 3,566]

6 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

Hornady Z-Max 55gr and IMI Razor Core 77gr OTM

The IMI looks tempting.  My current bulk ammo stuff is a hodge-podge of Fiocchi, Remington, Freedom Munitions and American Eagle.  

I want to stick with one type from one company.

Just now, voyager9 said:

Hornady TAP 55gr

My 20 inch AR is sighted in with that, i am talking bulk stuff.  

[High Exposure 5,664]

Federal TRU 64gr Soft Nose .223

Part #:T223L

I have shot this ammo out of a 14.5” and 16” AR in direct head to head comparison into ballistic gel through multiple different kinds of barriers, including - bare gel, T shirt, denim, heavy leather, glass, drywall, 2x4.

I shot it against the entire Remington LE line and equivalent Speer, and Hornady offerings. It came out on top.

It does everything you want it to do.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

2 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Federal TRU 64gr Soft Nose. Part #:T223L

Sounds expensive

[High Exposure 5,664]

I have shot this ammo out of a 14.5” and 16” AR in direct head to head comparison into ballistic gel through multiple different kinds of barriers, including - bare gel, T shirt, denim, heavy leather, glass, drywall, 2x4.

I shot it against the entire Remington LE line and equivalent Speer, and Hornady offerings. It came out on top.

It does everything you want it to do.

It’s not bad for duty ammo.

Seriously, How much do you need for HD? 100 rounds for function test and zero and another 60 to load mags.

[silverado427 10,722]

64gr gold dots. 

[High Exposure 5,664]

I used to issue the Speer 64gr Gold Dots. I switched my agency and the county team to the Federal TRU. 

[GunsnFreedom 245]

23 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

Sounds expensive

.50 per round.  Not crazy

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I had issues with some 64 grainers a few years ago testing some ammo out.  The 55s, 62s, 75s and 77s where reliable but not the 64 grain soft points.

[1LtCAP 4,263]

ok. my turn for the stupid questions.

 with the different ammos you guys are suggesting....and knowing it's gfor home defense........do we care much about the barrel twist rate?

[Ray Ray 3,566]

The IMI stuff that @Krdshrk posted in another thread looks like a winner.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

3 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

ok. my turn for the stupid questions.

 with the different ammos you guys are suggesting....and knowing it's gfor home defense........do we care much about the barrel twist rate?

Short answer, no

Unless you are varmint hunting with a 1 in 12 twist rate and shooting 45 grainers.  

Or

Shooting long range competition with a 1 in 7 twist rate and using 77 grainers.

[voyager9 3,434]

Been posted before but a good image

[kotkot 26]

I use 55g Hornady soft point for reloads.  all my barrels are 1:8. no issues... 

[raz-0 1,259]

IMO, projectiles I like. 

Cheap DIY - hornady 55gr jsp going about 2800 fps. hornady 62gr OTM about the same speed is nice, and the higher BC means the lower velocity works out for you over a wider range. People have been liking them as cheap fodder for nuisance hogs.  You can also score 55gr fusion and gold dot bullets in bulk for very reasonable prices on occasion. The 62Gr version of both seems to be less bitchy to load. For 64gr stuff you can go with the nosler bonded performance bullets new and pristine. They do have a pretty flat point though. Hornady z-max 55gr and v-max 55gr bullets are nice and accurate, and have a thick cooper portion at the base of the projectile. Nosler 55gr varmint (orange tip, the pricier stuff) and 60gr varmint bullets are constructed similarly. I find the nosler 60gr to be more picky about loading. If you want expensive, the barnes TSX product line and 77gr OTM from either sierra or nosler work well. 

 

Non diy 

I haven't seen the 62gr OTM anywhere. As far as I know only midsouth sells the heads. So no pre packaged stuff I have been able to find. 

The hronady 55gr jsp is availabel in 50 round bulk boxes labeled training. It also gets recommended for hogs by some vendors. Item 80255, however might be a litle faster than I would like for the bullet. 

The hornady bonded sutff is available as the fusion hunting line and the TRU defensive line. 

Hornady vmax and zmax stuff is available in their z amax line and tap products. 

The speer bullets are of course in the gold dot rifle ammo. 

the nosler bullet is in the winchester powermax hunting ammo, 64gr winchester ranger bonded solid base, and nosler defense ammo. 

Barnes TSX is available from black hills or their own vor-tx line. 

The 77gr OTM bullets are cheapest loaded in IMI razor core ammo. 

 

 

 

[Guest]

I like Bite The Bullet for cheap bulk ammo and always cheap prices.https://www.bitethebullet.co/

doesn't shoot any better or worse than name brands of the same grain, except I find it leaves a lot of dust in the chamber and barrel (my rifle is a piston)

[Krdshrk 3,877]

3 hours ago, raz-0 said:

The 77gr OTM bullets are cheapest loaded in IMI razor core ammo. 

On sale right now too at Midway

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?promotionid=1206623

[silverado427 10,722]

1 hour ago, Krdshrk said:

On sale right now too at Midway

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?promotionid=1206623

Thanks I just ordered some

[Ray Ray 3,566]

3 hours ago, Krdshrk said:

On sale right now too at Midway

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?promotionid=1206623

300 clams for 500 rounds?  yikes

[Scorpio64 5,155]

1 hour ago, Ray Ray said:

300 clams for 500 rounds?  yikes

That's a good price for 77gr Razor Core.  I use PPU 75gr OTM. It runs 45 cents per round in bulk and shoots .5 moa in my rifle. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ray Ray said:

300 clams for 500 rounds?  yikes

get the 55 grain then. $120 for 450 rounds and free shipping is a solid deal. I shoot a lot of that through my rifle, no complaints. It's probably one of the better quality 55 gr made.

[stuckinNJ 81]

I buy Hornady TAP 55 gr from Sportsman Outdoor Superstore. It’s priced well now but occasionally goes on sale for $10 or $11 a box.  

https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/175141

Shipping is reasonable, too.

[bry@n 195]

I’ve been using the 64gr Gold Dots. Have to check the federal that HE references. 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

12 hours ago, JR88USMC said:

get the 55 grain then. $120 for 450 rounds and free shipping is a solid deal. I shoot a lot of that through my rifle, no complaints. It's probably one of the better quality 55 gr made.

223 or 556?

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

223 or 556?

5.56

[raz-0 1,259]

Apparantly the nosler 64gr bonded bullet is also loaded in the freedom munitions boar buster round for a little over a buck a piece. Whcih isn't bad given that I ahve never found the bullets for less than $0.39 a piece ever. Usually $0.42. 

[High Exposure 5,664]

Bonded ammo isn't really the best choice for FISHing. You want the ammo to break up and slow down if you miss. You do not want it to stay intact and retain velocity and mass. You also don't want to shoot through your target and worry about where the round goes next.

Bonded is great if you are shooting through glass or car doors, it is kind of specialized. It would probably work well on animals with tough hides and thick bodies where your rounds need to penetrate further, but for HD or SD, not so much.

[raz-0 1,259]

49 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Bonded ammo isn't really the best choice for FISHing. You want the ammo to break up and slow down if you miss. You do not want it to stay intact and retain velocity and mass. You also don't want to shoot through your target and worry about where the round goes next.

Bonded is great if you are shooting through glass or car doors, it is kind of specialized. It would probably work well on animals with tough hides and thick bodies where your rounds need to penetrate further, but for HD or SD, not so much.

My list is based on effectiveness of penetration and if it'll make a big enough hole to bleed out of. It's more or less pass/fail with some marginal budget rounds included. Bonded is bonded. It'll penetrate more, but it'll work well at expanding and retaining weight. 

You recommended 64gr TRU. Which from the LEO catalog looks a heck of a lot like it is bonded based on the remnants, although that may just be the lower velocity they are pushing it at from a 14.5" barrel. Or it's using the cannelure to act as an interlock design. 

My personal favorite on paper is the nosler 60 gr varmint. The 55gr BT TRU ammo seems to be the 55gr version since it appears to have an orange tip. The 60 grain increases the size of the solid copper portion at the back and can be had with cannelure like the TRU ammo. Getting ahold of the 55gr with cannelure is random industry lottery of if nosler has a contract overrun. It can be had relatively affordably so it is possible to practice with it without an insane budget if you roll your own. It's preferred envelope is at .223 pressures, said envelope is pretty generous velocity wise, and the SD and BC are such that at those .223 pressures, you keep it in a pretty happy zone. It'll also likely stay in the bad guy, or lose most of the velocity there. It's just kind of picky on barrel and powder for accuracy. The 55gr is less dramatic in that regard and the v-max and z-max 55gr ammo even more so. Construction between them is similar. 

But with all of them except maybe the lightweight bulk soft point, you miss, it's going to send a decent chunk of bullet through standard construction material, and a fair amount of it.