Played with a GSG Pistol.

[Maksim 1,504]

Wow.... totally awesome stuff. I saw a carbine at Cheyenne not too long ago go for $525. Last night, forgot to mention, when picking up the XD, the place where I picked up my XD had a GSG in a pistol.

 

I got to say, taking away the rear stock, it truly feels well made. The fixed stock on the carbine felt kind of cheap.

 

My one question though, how can anyone see through the sights on the thing? It is terrible. I couldnt even make out the front post.

[tbtrout 141]

That is because you are getting old and your sight is fading.

[PoorSoulInJersey 1]

I didn't think the pistol version was Jersey legal for some reason. Maybe the weight?

[Maksim 1,504]

I didnt think so either... but it is apparently. You just need a pistol permit.

[djg0770 481]

I didnt think so either... but it is apparently. You just need a pistol permit.

 

According to Jersey Police Supply it is not legal, but it wouldn't be the first time that a supposed informed source was not accurate.

[Maksim 1,504]

Well, they have some GSG's that are carbines that were chopped down.

 

And then there are GSg pistols.

 

Other key is how many rounds they come with.

 

They sell them in 10 and 22 round magazines.

 

The one I played with is a 10rd GSG Pistol.

[NJ-Tom 4]

There are 15 round magazines available for the GSG-5 however they have been on backorder for many months.

[BMWR12 35]

it is illegal since it is over 50 ounces unloaded.

[Maksim 1,504]

Yep, just got some clarification from another FFL... illegal because it is over the weight limit, has a flash suppressor, and the magazine is in front of the grip.

[Tom609 27]

illegal because it is over the weight limit, has a flash suppressor, and the magazine is in front of the grip.

 

Wow, any one of which could cause sudden death or mayhem. Thank goodness we're protected.

:shock:

[NJChiroDoc 0]

Wow, any one of which could cause sudden death or mayhem. Thank goodness we're protected.

 

illegal because it is over the weight limit, has a flash suppressor, and the magazine is in front of the grip.

 

Wow, any one of which could cause sudden death or mayhem. Thank goodness we're protected.

:shock:

 

lol

[PK90 3,573]

IMO, the GSG-5 pistol is LEGAL. Why? Because it is not on the named list, AND the NJAG Guideline addresses firearms that are on the LIST. In fact, the guideline mentions the list SEVEN times.

[Maksim 1,504]

Paul,

 

what about the weight factors, magazine in front of grip, etc.... or is that only applicable to the list?

[PK90 3,573]

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/assltf.htm

 

TO: Director Terrence P. Farley, Division of Criminal Justice

All County Prosecutors

All Law Enforcement Chief Executives

FROM: Attorney General Peter Verniero

DATE: August 19, 1996

SUBJECT: Guidelines Regarding the "Substantially Identical" Provision in the State's Assault Firearms Laws

 

I. Introduction

 

In recent weeks there has been a question about the meaning of the term "substantially identical" in New Jersey's assault firearms law. The Legislature addressed this question in the provisions of the Code of Criminal Justice, and despite the clarity of the law, it is appropriate for the Attorney General to provide guidance to the prosecutors in order to ensure that the law is administered uniformly and effectively throughout the State. N.J.S.A. 52:17B-98. I am directing the prosecutors, as chief law enforcement officers of their respective counties, to share this guidance with local police departments, who in turn should provide copies of this memorandum to any member of the public who requests information on assault firearms.

 

II. Guidelines

 

New Jersey law lists firearms that are prohibited "assault firearms." N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1w.(1). In addition, the law provides that the term "assault firearm" includes, "Any firearm manufactured under any designation which is substantially identical to any of the firearms listed" in the law. N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1w.(2). Thus, a firearm is an assault firearm if it is included on the list of banned firearms or if it is manufactured under a different designation than a firearm on the list but is "substantially identical" to a specific listed firearm.

 

We believe "substantially identical" is clear by its plain meaning. The Criminal Code provides that the statutes in the Code must be read "according to the fair import of their terms." N.J.S.A. 2C:1-2c. The Criminal Code explains that where language may be susceptible to different readings it must be construed to "give fair warning of the nature of the conduct proscribed." N.J.S.A. 2C:1-2a.(4), c. Simply put, the phrase "substantially identical" must be given its plain meaning, one that gives fair warning.

 

The term "substantial" means pertaining to the substance, matter, material or essence of a thing. The term "identical" means exactly the same. Hence, a firearm is substantially identical to another only if it is identical in all material, essential respects. A firearm is not substantially identical to a listed assault firearm unless it is identical except for differences which do not alter the essential nature of the firearm.

 

The following are examples of manufacturer changes that do not alter the essential nature of the firearm: name or designation of the firearm; the color of the firearm; the material used to make the barrel or stock of the firearm; the material used to make a pistol grip; a modification of a pistol grip. This is not an exclusive list.

 

A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria:

 

A. semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following:

 

1. a folding or telescoping stock;

2. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

3. a bayonet mount;

4. a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

5. a grenade launcher;

 

B. a semi-automatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following:

 

1. an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

2. a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;

3. a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;

4. manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and

5. a semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm; and,

 

C. a semi-automatic shotgun that has at least 2 of the following:

 

1. a folding or telescoping stock;

2. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

3. a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and

4. an ability to accept a detachable magazine.

 

III. Inquiries from Private Citizens

 

Law enforcement officers should, whenever possible, attempt to be helpful and to respond to inquiries concerning particular firearms. Private citizens should also be encouraged to consult with their own attorneys and, where necessary, referred to the Firearms Unit of the Division of State Police.

 

IV. Purpose and Effect of these Guidelines

 

In enforcing this law, prosecutors and police should remember that an assault firearms offense requires proof that the defendant knows he or she possesses an assault firearm, e.g., that the defendant knows that the firearm is "substantially identical" to one of the named assault weapons.

 

These guidelines should be followed by all county prosecutors and all law enforcement officers in this State so that the State's assault firearms laws will be uniformly enforced throughout the State.

Nothing above applies if the firearm is not "substantially identical" to a named firearm on the list.

[Larain60 1]

Paul have you sold a GSG pistol or know any dealers selling in NJ?

 

Id love to have one, would go nice with the GSG Rifle.

[Maksim 1,504]

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/assltf.htm

 

TO: Director Terrence P. Farley, Division of Criminal Justice

All County Prosecutors

All Law Enforcement Chief Executives

FROM: Attorney General Peter Verniero

DATE: August 19, 1996

SUBJECT: Guidelines Regarding the "Substantially Identical" Provision in the State's Assault Firearms Laws

 

I. Introduction

 

In recent weeks there has been a question about the meaning of the term "substantially identical" in New Jersey's assault firearms law. The Legislature addressed this question in the provisions of the Code of Criminal Justice, and despite the clarity of the law, it is appropriate for the Attorney General to provide guidance to the prosecutors in order to ensure that the law is administered uniformly and effectively throughout the State. N.J.S.A. 52:17B-98. I am directing the prosecutors, as chief law enforcement officers of their respective counties, to share this guidance with local police departments, who in turn should provide copies of this memorandum to any member of the public who requests information on assault firearms.

 

II. Guidelines

 

New Jersey law lists firearms that are prohibited "assault firearms." N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1w.(1). In addition, the law provides that the term "assault firearm" includes, "Any firearm manufactured under any designation which is substantially identical to any of the firearms listed" in the law. N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1w.(2). Thus, a firearm is an assault firearm if it is included on the list of banned firearms or if it is manufactured under a different designation than a firearm on the list but is "substantially identical" to a specific listed firearm.

 

We believe "substantially identical" is clear by its plain meaning. The Criminal Code provides that the statutes in the Code must be read "according to the fair import of their terms." N.J.S.A. 2C:1-2c. The Criminal Code explains that where language may be susceptible to different readings it must be construed to "give fair warning of the nature of the conduct proscribed." N.J.S.A. 2C:1-2a.(4), c. Simply put, the phrase "substantially identical" must be given its plain meaning, one that gives fair warning.

 

The term "substantial" means pertaining to the substance, matter, material or essence of a thing. The term "identical" means exactly the same. Hence, a firearm is substantially identical to another only if it is identical in all material, essential respects. A firearm is not substantially identical to a listed assault firearm unless it is identical except for differences which do not alter the essential nature of the firearm.

 

The following are examples of manufacturer changes that do not alter the essential nature of the firearm: name or designation of the firearm; the color of the firearm; the material used to make the barrel or stock of the firearm; the material used to make a pistol grip; a modification of a pistol grip. This is not an exclusive list.

 

A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria:

 

A. semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following:

 

1. a folding or telescoping stock;

2. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

3. a bayonet mount;

4. a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

5. a grenade launcher;

 

B. a semi-automatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following:

 

1. an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

2. a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;

3. a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;

4. manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and

5. a semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm; and,

 

C. a semi-automatic shotgun that has at least 2 of the following:

 

1. a folding or telescoping stock;

2. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

3. a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and

4. an ability to accept a detachable magazine.

 

III. Inquiries from Private Citizens

 

Law enforcement officers should, whenever possible, attempt to be helpful and to respond to inquiries concerning particular firearms. Private citizens should also be encouraged to consult with their own attorneys and, where necessary, referred to the Firearms Unit of the Division of State Police.

 

IV. Purpose and Effect of these Guidelines

 

In enforcing this law, prosecutors and police should remember that an assault firearms offense requires proof that the defendant knows he or she possesses an assault firearm, e.g., that the defendant knows that the firearm is "substantially identical" to one of the named assault weapons.

 

These guidelines should be followed by all county prosecutors and all law enforcement officers in this State so that the State's assault firearms laws will be uniformly enforced throughout the State.

Nothing above applies if the firearm is not "substantially identical" to a named firearm on the list.

 

got it, so basicly, it does have at least 2 features on the list for the semi auto pistol, however it doesnt count as that only applies to the firearms on the list, which the gsg5 pistol is not on anyway.

[PK90 3,573]

And neither are the Ruger 10/22 Charger or Kel-Tec PLR-16 on the list.

[The_Matrix 105]

Sweet!!!!

[The_Matrix 105]

Common sense...try changing parts from HK SP89 to a GSG 5PK....impossible. How can they be identical?