JackDaWack 2,895 Posted March 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Redeye65 said: I feel they are trying their best to limit firearms licenses with out having major lawsuits filed against them, while using the whole COVID/swamped/short handed excuse. When I went in for my FID, every office I walked past with a window had people in there doing nothing but chatting, the records dept where I picked up my FID had two women in it BSing without a care in the world. I would fire employees who had a work ethic like this. Try and prove any of this, runs you right into a brick wall. Well they used to pull the "we haven't gotten the background check from the state yet, or the mental health check" now with FARS, we see thats done relatively quickly.. so what's the excuse now? For most people with no local files to even look into, they're basically saying it takes months to fill out a card smaller than a post it note. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sniper 6,372 Posted March 7, 2021 48 minutes ago, JackDaWack said: so what's the excuse now? In my town, they told me someone works part time on permits, like one day a week. These aren't a priority for the PDs... they just get to them when they get to them. Probably don't have the budget to hire additional manpower to process additional permits, or just not important to them, compared all the other important, everyday crap.... like eating doughnuts... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
revenger 473 Posted March 7, 2021 you should ALWAYS record any interaction on matters such as this. This retiree should be charged with violating your civil rights The agency I work for I utilize this all the time and its not to defend myself from the democrats on the street, its to defend myself from the the adjoining cubicles. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bomber 1,092 Posted March 7, 2021 5 hours ago, JackDaWack said: But are they swamped? Applications are digital these days, and the state does the background check. Permits are now digital. So what the fuck do these police departments do these days? No doubt they could process FID applications much, much faster but there is zero incentive to do so: They get paid the same no matter what speed they work. Most N.J. PD chief's are big on gun control and the courts and politicians back them up. 3 hours ago, Redeye65 said: I feel they are trying their best to limit firearms licenses with out having major lawsuits filed against them, N.J courts are packed with hardcore leftists, they're not concerned about lawsuits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted March 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Sniper said: In my town, they told me someone works part time on permits, like one day a week. These aren't a priority for the PDs... they just get to them when they get to them. Probably don't have the budget to hire additional manpower to process additional permits, or just not important to them, compared all the other important, everyday crap.... like eating doughnuts... Seems like a good time to present the argument again and carry it to a higher court if needed. The courts gave them immunity to delay permits indefinitely, and they have obviously taken advantage of the ruling beyond its purpose. Tons of examples where background checks were complete and PDs waited months to issues permits/ID'S. Get some ass on tape threatening to make it even longer and you have a prime civil suit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EdF 323 Posted March 7, 2021 Has anyone contacted or considered contacting the state representatives or municipal council members? The PDs aren't worried about the 30 statute because the courts backed them up. But, the courts ignored/overrode the legislature with that ruling and some of them might be pissed off. Even if they are not pissed about it, they don't want to hear from constituents having problems. Let them know that they will be held accountable. I don't think that we will ever get back to the text of the 30 day statute. But, we could take steps. Perhaps making the PD provide a written notice every 30 days, to include the reasons for the delay and any negative findings. These notices could be collected by the state police and a periodic report could be produced on the time that it takes to get issued and the reasons for the delay. Small steps . . . 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bomber 1,092 Posted March 7, 2021 51 minutes ago, EdF said: I don't think that we will ever get back to the text of the 30 day statute. Did the PD's at any point bother to abide by the 30 day statute? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EdF 323 Posted March 7, 2021 19 hours ago, Bomber said: Did the PD's at any point bother to abide by the 30 day statute? I have to admit that I don't know the history. But, it doesn't matter. The legislature specified 30 days and the courts ruled that "public safety" takes precedence. The proper response from the legislature is to revisit and clarify their intent. They are too chickenshit to do so. They should be hearing from those who vote for or against them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted March 7, 2021 3 hours ago, Bomber said: Did the PD's at any point bother to abide by the 30 day statute? I have applied through two towns because of moving. Both had my permits in hand by or around 30 days. A lot of towns are good like that. I even got a sincere apology when I moved and it took 2 months for all the paper work to transfer from my old town. I have never had the option to personally get involved with these issues, in my 12 years I've never had a delay that wasn't reasonable. Knowing there are PDs that pull this crap irks the shit out of me. Cause it could have easily been me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,264 Posted March 7, 2021 6 hours ago, revenger said: you should ALWAYS record any interaction on matters such as this. This retiree should be charged with violating your civil rights The agency I work for I utilize this all the time and its not to defend myself from the democrats on the street, its to defend myself from the the adjoining cubicles. this. record everything. nj is a 1 party state. you have no requirement to tell them you're recording them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WayOutWest 2 Posted March 8, 2021 I wouldn’t even be surprised if this incompetent pushes it to 7 months because I questioned the 30 day statute. Everybody who I got in contact with over there sounded like they had a chip on their shoulder. The secretary said they had about 6,000 files. But the day I dropped off my check in the mailbox I only saw another check in there. Shit sounds like fake news and using excuses for the delay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,264 Posted March 8, 2021 some depts(as i think others have mentioned) just don't have the funds to add manpower to do their part of the checks. a local pd that i know of doesn't even have their own computer link into the fars system.....their firearms officer needs to go to another towns station to do his work. and he's the only one. they can't hire help for him. the town i live in took me 8 months to get 2 p2p's. i wass told that they're backed up due to the increase. they had 3 detectives working on them. a couple of you on this board know where i live, and know my town. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WayOutWest 2 Posted March 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said: some depts(as i think others have mentioned) just don't have the funds to add manpower to do their part of the checks. a local pd that i know of doesn't even have their own computer link into the fars system.....their firearms officer needs to go to another towns station to do his work. and he's the only one. they can't hire help for him. the town i live in took me 8 months to get 2 p2p's. i wass told that they're backed up due to the increase. they had 3 detectives working on them. a couple of you on this board know where i live, and know my town. From what I gathered there are supposedly two people doing this work in my area. This city does not seem like the kind of place that people were rushing to get their permits filled out. Englishtown is another story Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EdF 323 Posted March 8, 2021 There's not a town in NJ (opinion!) that any officers dedicated to firearms work. If they tell you that they have three people, that's three people working on firearms when they have nothing else to do. If there's a bicycle stolen from the school yard (do kids even ride bikes to school anymore?) that will get priority. As I remember, the 30 limit and the overriding court decision predate computer checks and computerized records. The FARS system and other automation would allow quicker checks but local PDs on tight budgets just cut available resources so everything takes just as long as it always has. The court ruling left the process open ended so there is no need for them to worry about how long they take. Today, the checks could easily be in less than 30 days. The problem is that they spend more than 30 days sitting on desks. Perhaps another challenge to the statute would produce a different result. But, the reality is that the states firearms law should ALL be revisited. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FDHog 613 Posted March 8, 2021 I remember my FID card took about 3 months back before everything was computerized. Also, I was new to the town. My P2P's used to take about 8-10 weeks. I have a buddy of mine in Red Bank who's in the same boat as you. He filed roughly when you did and is still waiting. It really pissed him off when I got my last P2P's in 19 days. There's no excuse for these things taking this long with the computer filing except for the local PD,s sitting on them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,264 Posted March 9, 2021 12 hours ago, EdF said: There's not a town in NJ (opinion!) that any officers dedicated to firearms work. this i believe is correct. in my town, they have 3 detectives working on them. the town that the cop i was referencing before has him. he's a patrol officer. he's the only one in his town doing them. he does however go in sometimes on his off days to do these. 12 hours ago, EdF said: As I remember, the 30 limit and the overriding court decision while the 30 day limit is a statute, it is nothing more than a strong suggestion. there are no consequences prescribed for not meeting that limit, thus making it a big nothingburger....although it makes the general public think that it's a fair law. 4 hours ago, FDHog said: I remember my FID card took about 3 months back before everything was computerized. Also, I was new to the town. My P2P's used to take about 8-10 weeks. I have a buddy of mine in Red Bank who's in the same boat as you. He filed roughly when you did and is still waiting. It really pissed him off when I got my last P2P's in 19 days. There's no excuse for these things taking this long with the computer filing except for the local PD,s sitting on them. my initial fPid took 8 months. this was around 10'ish years ago. my last pair of p2p's took.......about 8 months. this last application was filed this past year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FDHog 613 Posted March 9, 2021 Guess my local PD is gun friendly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EdF 323 Posted March 9, 2021 11 hours ago, 1LtCAP said: while the 30 day limit is a statute, it is nothing more than a strong suggestion. there are no consequences prescribed for not meeting that limit, thus making it a big nothingburger....although it makes the general public think that it's a fair law. Well . . . The consequence was that the PD was required to issue the FID at the 30 day mark. I'm not sure what other consequence could be prescribed. This is why there WAS a court case. Someone didn't get their card and took the PD to court. The court decided that it didn't like the statute as written and removed the 30 day requirement without providing another. The proper action following the court decision would have been for the legislature to revisit the statute and come up with something that would satisfy the court. In this case, the legislature punted. This isn't how things are supposed to work. This is one of the reasons that I am considering running for assembly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted March 9, 2021 On 3/7/2021 at 9:20 AM, WayOutWest said: They can’t be doing a’lot because the main municipal building is locked and the only people allowed in are the police A lot of what exactly? There's a 400% increase in Yellow Card applicants over the same time period last year. 13 years ago my 18 yr old Eagle Scout waited 6 months for his Yellow Card. You people have NO idea the way it USED to be! Try not to piss in too many people's corn flakes. You don't want every P2P to go to the bottom of the pile... That being said, a right delayed is a right denied. I've been fighting for 2A rights my entire adult life! ~R Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bomber 1,092 Posted March 9, 2021 3 hours ago, EdF said: Well . . . The consequence was that the PD was required to issue the FID at the 30 day mark. This is why there WAS a court case. Someone didn't get their card and took the PD to court. Right. Meaning some PD's were taking their sweet time processing FID applications long before anyone ever heard of coronavirus. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WayOutWest 2 Posted March 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Smokin .50 said: A lot of what exactly? There's a 400% increase in Yellow Card applicants over the same time period last year. 13 years ago my 18 yr old Eagle Scout waited 6 months for his Yellow Card. You people have NO idea the way it USED to be! Try not to piss in too many people's corn flakes. You don't want every P2P to go to the bottom of the pile... That being said, a right delayed is a right denied. I've been fighting for 2A rights my entire adult life! ~R When I went to IDentoGo the woman said a 400% increase in New Jersey, not the city where I reside. Which only took a few days to clear and now it’s in the process of my local PD which are delaying it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,264 Posted March 9, 2021 4 hours ago, EdF said: Well . . . The consequence was that the PD was required to issue the FID at the 30 day mark. I'm not sure what other consequence could be prescribed. This is why there WAS a court case. Someone didn't get their card and took the PD to court. The court decided that it didn't like the statute as written and removed the 30 day requirement without providing another. The proper action following the court decision would have been for the legislature to revisit the statute and come up with something that would satisfy the court. In this case, the legislature punted. This isn't how things are supposed to work. This is one of the reasons that I am considering running for assembly. THAT'S not a consequence. loss or holdup of funding, fines, fines for the chief or the officer in charge.....some sort of penalty. that then makes it an actual law. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,259 Posted March 9, 2021 On 3/7/2021 at 11:56 AM, Bomber said: No doubt they could process FID applications much, much faster but there is zero incentive to do so: They get paid the same no matter what speed they work. Most N.J. PD chief's are big on gun control and the courts and politicians back them up. N.J courts are packed with hardcore leftists, they're not concerned about lawsuits. It really baffles me, given how easy it is to find lots of non criminal types waiting many months to exercise their right that has been burdened by unknown and unspecified processes that do not even have to abide by the law as written that this hasn't been taken to court, especially given the current composition of SCOTUS. This strikes me very much as something winnable even by the opposition simply trying to moot the case by altering the statute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EdF 323 Posted March 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Bomber said: Meaning some PD's were taking their sweet time processing FID applications long before anyone ever heard of coronavirus. Yes . . . We've known that for quite some time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EdF 323 Posted March 9, 2021 15 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said: THAT'S not a consequence. loss or holdup of funding, fines, fines for the chief or the officer in charge.....some sort of penalty. that then makes it an actual law. That's just not how laws like this work . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JC_68Westy 1,024 Posted March 10, 2021 On 3/7/2021 at 1:00 PM, EdF said: Has anyone contacted or considered contacting the state representatives or municipal council members? The PDs aren't worried about the 30 statute because the courts backed them up. But, the courts ignored/overrode the legislature with that ruling and some of them might be pissed off. Even if they are not pissed about it, they don't want to hear from constituents having problems. Let them know that they will be held accountable. I don't think that we will ever get back to the text of the 30 day statute. But, we could take steps. Perhaps making the PD provide a written notice every 30 days, to include the reasons for the delay and any negative findings. These notices could be collected by the state police and a periodic report could be produced on the time that it takes to get issued and the reasons for the delay. Small steps . . . I agree 100%. Civil servants never want a complaint against them. Even if the retiree is best buds with the Chief a formal complaint is something that is a headache for the retiree and the Chief. It is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. The ass-kissing citizen will get walked on all day long. You need to assert yourself either directly or getting either a local or state rep involved. A lazy civil servant will do you no favors just because you kiss their ass. Call the NJSP firearms unit number and inform them of what happened. I had an incident when I was living in NJ when OGAM became law and my local department would not issue more than one PP. I called the NJSP firearms unit and spoke with the sergeant to get clarification on the law. He called the local PD and told them that they were violating my rights and could be sued as a result. My permits (4) were delivered by a Sgt from the local PD with an apology for their misunderstanding of the law. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WayOutWest 2 Posted March 10, 2021 26 minutes ago, JC_68Westy said: I agree 100%. Civil servants never want a complaint against them. Even if the retiree is best buds with the Chief a formal complaint is something that is a headache for the retiree and the Chief. It is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. The ass-kissing citizen will get walked on all day long. You need to assert yourself either directly or getting either a local or state rep involved. A lazy civil servant will do you no favors just because you kiss their ass. Call the NJSP firearms unit number and inform them of what happened. I had an incident when I was living in NJ when OGAM became law and my local department would not issue more than one PP. I called the NJSP firearms unit and spoke with the sergeant to get clarification on the law. He called the local PD and told them that they were violating my rights and could be sued as a result. My permits (4) were delivered by a Sgt from the local PD with an apology for their misunderstanding of the law. Would I be able to call them for my issue? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JC_68Westy 1,024 Posted March 10, 2021 Just now, WayOutWest said: Would I be able to call them for my issue? Not sure they would or could do anything about a personnel issue. That is for the Chief/Deputy Chief. I would start with them and escalate with a local politician or state rep if that doesn't work. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,326 Posted March 10, 2021 55 minutes ago, JC_68Westy said: Not sure they would or could do anything about a personnel issue. That is for the Chief/Deputy Chief. I would start with them and escalate with a local politician or state rep if that doesn't work. Good luck finding a state rep in the PRNJ who will help you acquire a gun faster! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JC_68Westy 1,024 Posted March 10, 2021 9 hours ago, JohnnyB said: Good luck finding a state rep in the PRNJ who will help you acquire a gun faster! It is not about finding a gun faster. It is about getting a lazy public worker to do their job. It is also about dealing with threats from the public worker. They need to be held accountable for their job performance and actions. Nothing will ever change if people think you need to walk on eggshells and kiss their asses to have them perform their duties. Someone has to speak up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites