NJ LAWMAKERS ANNOUNCE PLANS TO DESTROY RIGHT TO CARRY

[Grima Squeakersen 483]

On 6/28/2023 at 12:36 PM, DAHL said:

This could be the right strategy but it will just add time. We just might get a watered down carry ban since the 3rd circuit knows of the NRA/ANJRPC appeal plan and may just give us enough to thwart this off. On the plus side ANJRPC has hired a top attorney to take this the rest of the way.  Not withstanding, NJ carry laws are still very restrictive, with discriminatory; high fees, expensive training and no provisions for the inexperienced shooter, or the handicapped to exercise their 2nd amendment rights .

It saddens me to think that our advocacy organizations might be bought off with a bogus compromise that falls far short of what the Bruen and Heller decisions promised (and I think that even Bruen was relatively weak sauce compared to a literal reading of the Constitution and 2nd A).

[Grima Squeakersen 483]

On 6/28/2023 at 11:05 AM, Fawkesguy said:

Can a small number of votes make a big difference?  Yes.  Are NJ gun owners any sort of unified, effective voting bloc?  No.  We are a fringe group in this state.  

If I had to choose between being part of such a fringe group, or being part of a unified, effective voting bloc that runs roughshod over the liberties of other individuals in the process of exerting its politcal will, I'd grumble (a lot) and take the first option, frustrating though it may be.

[Fawkesguy 57]

1 hour ago, Grima Squeakersen said:

If I had to choose between being part of such a fringe group, or being part of a unified, effective voting bloc that runs roughshod over the liberties of other individuals in the process of exerting its politcal will, I'd grumble (a lot) and take the first option, frustrating though it may be.

Yep, never suggested otherwise.  I'm totally in the "fringe" group.  

[1LtCAP 4,264]

16 hours ago, Grima Squeakersen said:

It saddens me to think that our advocacy organizations might be bought off with a bogus compromise that falls far short of what the Bruen and Heller decisions promised (and I think that even Bruen was relatively weak sauce compared to a literal reading of the Constitution and 2nd A).

i'm hoping that doesn't happen. but i'm fearful that it will, considering that some of those organizations(nra for example) have historically bargained our rights away.

[siderman 1,139]

3 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

i'm hoping that doesn't happen. but i'm fearful that it will, considering that some of those organizations(nra for example) have historically bargained our rights away.

On a national level, yes. However NJ's own chapter of NRA is ANJRPC and they have a great team of officers and lawyers that have been fairly aggressive recently. They have reasons going about their business and have the state on its heels. Give them some well deserved credit.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

1 hour ago, siderman said:

On a national level, yes. However NJ's own chapter of NRA is ANJRPC and they have a great team of officers and lawyers that have been fairly aggressive recently. They have reasons going about their business and have the state on its heels. Give them some well deserved credit.

oohh i give them a ton of credit for what they've accomplished, and hope they keep the train rolling.....

[Grima Squeakersen 483]

On 6/30/2023 at 8:29 AM, 1LtCAP said:

i'm hoping that doesn't happen. but i'm fearful that it will, considering that some of those organizations(nra for example) have historically bargained our rights away.

I'm reluctant to ascribe this motivation to the entirety of those organizations, as that would implicate rank and file members who are trying very hard to pick the best options for defending their liberties, but I think that, in addition to the NRA, there are quite a number of "movers and shakers" in more local organizations (in NJ and elsewhere) who would gladly trade our full 2A rights for greater personal power and influence. I won't mention any names, but I expect that quite a few of us can recognize the symptoms.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

35 minutes ago, Grima Squeakersen said:

I'm reluctant to ascribe this motivation to the entirety of those organizations, as that would implicate rank and file members who are trying very hard to pick the best options for defending their liberties, but I think that, in addition to the NRA, there are quite a number of "movers and shakers" in more local organizations (in NJ and elsewhere) who would gladly trade our full 2A rights for greater personal power and influence. I won't mention any names, but I expect that quite a few of us can recognize the symptoms.

in hindsight, i probably over-generalized with what i'd typed before.

[DAHL 59]

That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. ----George Orwell

The statement is a big order to keep with Liberals continually looking to destroy our constitutional and God given rights.  Regardless today is July 1st so where are the so called "new training requirements"? 

[Fawkesguy 57]

4 minutes ago, DAHL said:

today is July 1st so where are the so called "new training requirements"? 

Yep.  Every day that goes by without them published means less time for us to comply.

 

[b47356 21]

On 6/28/2023 at 10:52 AM, DAHL said:

As for the trial on the cancel carry bill; it is likely that the same two far left judges will swing the ruling against us.

I can't help but wonder if folks understand that what is going on right now in the 3rd circuit (on the carry killer law) is a fight over Bumb's injunction, not the case as a whole. What is in Bumb's courtroom has barely started.

And it is just further delayed by both the defendant and the plaintiff  appealing Bumb's ruling.

Do you really think SCOTUS is going to insert itself into a case that hasn't been heard yet?

5 years from now we will have an answer.

[ESB 247]

Are the increased fees going to be addressed in the lawsuit or anything?  Wonder if the pistol purchase fees will go back to $4, down from current $25.  

[dilbert1967 146]

Wrong thread

[FairbanksRusty 64]

3 hours ago, ESB said:

Are the increased fees going to be addressed in the lawsuit or anything?  Wonder if the pistol purchase fees will go back to $4, down from current $25.  

Everyone has been happily paying the new fees. If you’re paying the fees then you must be okay with the new changes? They’ll assume so, so I doubt they’re going back. 

[1LtCAP 4,264]

5 minutes ago, FairbanksRusty said:

Everyone has been happily paying the new fees. If you’re paying the fees then you must be okay with the new changes? They’ll assume so, so I doubt they’re going back. 

i don;t want to pay the new fees....but i think my desire for that 1911 is outweighing thedetriment of the new fees......

[xXxplosive 827]

there's nothin' in the 2A that says anything about fees.........no, not everyone is happy to pay for our Constitutional Rights....the problem is we're so use to paying for everything fellas thinks this is the way it's done....need to look at the other 26 states that say it isn't.

[Vdep217 64]

5 hours ago, ESB said:

Are the increased fees going to be addressed in the lawsuit or anything?  Wonder if the pistol purchase fees will go back to $4, down from current $25.  

Was 2 dollars not 4

[Cheflife15 455]

Is there a sticky with updated places we can legally carry? If not, maybe we can get one.

[DAHL 59]

I will go with the opinion that during the trial over the cancel carry bill in Sept,  the 3rd circuit court knowing the intention of the ANJRPC/FPC  to take this to the supreme court if things do not go well; will only rule partially in our favor and keep it as it is now. The state of NJ will go along with that, we get screwed again,  and Platkin then says see "we got guns off the street" and made the people of NJ safer. It may or may not go this way but with the same trio of judges that shot down most of the Bumb  injunction, can we expect more? I hope that I am wrong .

[xXxplosive 827]

7/8 and waiting.............

[GrumpyOldRetiree 38]

On 7/1/2023 at 8:53 PM, Cheflife15 said:

Is there a sticky with updated places we can legally carry? If not, maybe we can get one.

This site stays pretty much up-to-date:

https://www.news2a.com/nj-concealed-carry-faq/

[xXxplosive 827]

so if ya look at that list.............basically nowhere.......omo.

[GrumpyOldRetiree 38]

16 minutes ago, xXxplosive said:

so if ya look at that list.............basically nowhere.......omo.

Yep...pretty much...at least until our cases are adjudicated.

Except in your car, stores that don't prohibit it and private residences whose legal tenant/owner has granted you explicit permission. Oh...and "Filming locations"...whatever that means.

The usual caveats apply...IANAL, this post DOES NOT constitute legal advice. Consult an attorney for legal advice. If anyone is aware that I am not correct, please post your corrections for the benefit of all.

[Grima Squeakersen 483]

On 7/8/2023 at 2:45 PM, DAHL said:

I will go with the opinion that during the trial over the cancel carry bill in Sept,  the 3rd circuit court knowing the intention of the ANJRPC/FPC  to take this to the supreme court if things do not go well; will only rule partially in our favor and keep it as it is now. The state of NJ will go along with that, we get screwed again,  and Platkin then says see "we got guns off the street" and made the people of NJ safer. It may or may not go this way but with the same trio of judges that shot down most of the Bumb  injunction, can we expect more? I hope that I am wrong .

The only thing I see to prevent that happening is that judges seem to hate to be over-ruled by a higher court. Sucks to have our rights contingent on some politically-connected a-hole's inflated ego, but good things sometimes happen for bad reasons, and in this case, I'd accept that result.

[Grima Squeakersen 483]

On 7/8/2023 at 3:04 PM, GrumpyOldRetiree said:

This site stays pretty much up-to-date:

https://www.news2a.com/nj-concealed-carry-faq/

The page at that link is dated May 16, before the partial overturning of Bumb's injunction. Way out of date.

[Grima Squeakersen 483]

On 7/8/2023 at 4:01 PM, GrumpyOldRetiree said:

Yep...pretty much...at least until our cases are adjudicated.

Except in your car, stores that don't prohibit it and private residences whose legal tenant/owner has granted you explicit permission. Oh...and "Filming locations"...whatever that means.

The usual caveats apply...IANAL, this post DOES NOT constitute legal advice. Consult an attorney for legal advice. If anyone is aware that I am not correct, please post your corrections for the benefit of all.

My understanding is that we can currently carry in any store or other commercial venue that is open to the public and has not posted a sign prohibiting carry. There is another thread here that lists such stores, and to this point, those appear to be few and far between. We can also carry walking around potentially dangerous neighborhoods (which today seems to be all of them). Current carry status sucks, but imo there is little point it making it seem evn worse than it actually is.

[xXxplosive 827]

What about having it in the center console of the suv your driving............

[TuscanRaider 8]

On 7/8/2023 at 4:01 PM, GrumpyOldRetiree said:

Yep...pretty much...at least until our cases are adjudicated.

Except in your car, stores that don't prohibit it and private residences whose legal tenant/owner has granted you explicit permission. Oh...and "Filming locations"...whatever that means.

The usual caveats apply...IANAL, this post DOES NOT constitute legal advice. Consult an attorney for legal advice. If anyone is aware that I am not correct, please post your corrections for the benefit of all.

You can carry it on any private property that doesn't have a sign prohibiting it.  So the mall, Home Depot, grocery stores, CVS, Costco, the boardwalk, basically any retail establishment I've encountered.  You can also take it to any BYOB.  So while the ruling sucks, its far from no where.  The only thing that that annoyed me is the restaurant that serves alcohol.  Not that I ever drank while carrying, but it is limiting.  For the most part, I'd say 75% of my routine has been uninterrupted.   Lets hope we get a favorable ruling and not worry about the hoops we have to jump thru.

[antimatter 139]

9 minutes ago, TuscanRaider said:

You can carry it on any private property that doesn't have a sign prohibiting it.  So the mall, Home Depot, grocery stores, CVS, Costco, the boardwalk, basically any retail establishment I've encountered.  You can also take it to any BYOB.  So while the ruling sucks, its far from no where.  The only thing that that annoyed me is the restaurant that serves alcohol.  Not that I ever drank while carrying, but it is limiting.  For the most part, I'd say 75% of my routine has been uninterrupted.   Lets hope we get a favorable ruling and not worry about the hoops we have to jump thru.

I believe you are correct with most of what you have pointed out; however the only thing I would add is some corporations do have blanket policies on firearms like Costco which I just discovered -  (https://customerservice.costco.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/709/~/are-guns-%26-personal-firearms-allowed-in-costco-warehouses%3F) 

its just another thing we all need to be aware of!

Funny you mention the boardwalk; there are signs for no loitering, no pot, no dogs and no disrobing - but nothing about firearms (seaside that is). 
 

 

 

[TuscanRaider 8]

5 minutes ago, antimatter said:

I believe you are correct with most of what you have pointed out; however the only thing I would add is some corporations do have blanket policies on firearms like Costco which I just discovered -  (https://customerservice.costco.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/709/~/are-guns-%26-personal-firearms-allowed-in-costco-warehouses%3F) 

its just another thing we all need to be aware of!

Funny you mention the boardwalk; there are signs for no loitering, no pot, no dogs and no disrobing - but nothing about firearms (seaside that is). 
 

 

 

Thanks....I guess I'll let the Costco membership lapse and keep Sams Club.  I didn't need both anyway! LOL