NJSP REQUALIFICATION

[1LtCAP 4,264]

45 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

The SP.182 is the form that your instructor signs as proof that you completed the training.

The additional form, the SP.182a does not require your instructor's signature, and is a form to tell the PD which guns you intend to carry.

i'm still not clear. is the 182a a state required form? or a form that some pd's are asking for and others aren't? because my dept sent me a copy of the 182 dated 9/23 which they want rather than the one dated 6/23 that i submitted. they said nothing about any other forms.

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

19 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

i'm still not clear. is the 182a a state required form? or a form that some pd's are asking for and others aren't? because my dept sent me a copy of the 182 dated 9/23 which they want rather than the one dated 6/23 that i submitted. they said nothing about any other forms.

The statute says:
2C:58-4 Permits to carry handguns.
2C:58-4. c.   Investigation and approval...
 
   ...The chief police officer or the superintendent, as the case may be, shall also determine and record a complete description of each handgun the applicant intends to carry...

The SP.182a form is the chosen method to achieve this.

[glockncolts 50]

21 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

i'm still not clear. is the 182a a state required form? or a form that some pd's are asking for and others aren't? because my dept sent me a copy of the 182 dated 9/23 which they want rather than the one dated 6/23 that i submitted. they said nothing about any other forms.

You may carry any firearm you own. I would not fill it out and have not seen any pd require it....

[xXxplosive 824]

the NJSP require it on their on line app. as one of the steps / completion or one cannot proceed...........

[124gr9mm 859]

5 minutes ago, glockncolts said:

You may carry any firearm you own. I would not fill it out and have not seen any pd require it....

The statute is in the post above yours (looks like it was posted at the same time).

If you don't have it submitted you'll be out of compliance.  Probably just a warning if you every get arrested and don't have it on file, but you'll definitely need it when you renew.

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

15 minutes ago, glockncolts said:

You may carry any firearm you own. I would not fill it out and have not seen any pd require it....

 

8 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

The statute is in the post above yours (looks like it was posted at the same time).

If you don't have it submitted you'll be out of compliance.  Probably just a warning if you every get arrested and don't have it on file, but you'll definitely need it when you renew.

The wording of the statute is peculiar. The onus is on the Chief or Superintendent to determine what you intend to carry at the time that you submit the application. There is also a section that allows the NJSP Superintendent to specify the required forms used to apply.

I read this as making the SP.182a mandatory when you apply as allowable under the statute.

However, the day you apply is an single point in time. What you intend to carry at that time and what you intend to carry a year later are not necessarily the same thing. There may be a gun (or three) that you didn't even own at the time you applied for your carry permit. There is nothing in the statute that gives NJSP or any PD the authority to demand any additional forms between permit applications.

TLDR; I believe the SP.182a form can be required to be submitted as part of an application for a permit. It does not need to be filled in at any other time.

[xXxplosive 824]

My son in Hunterdon County said it was required when he applied on the NJSP App. or he could not continue to the next step.

[glockncolts 50]

9 minutes ago, xXxplosive said:

My son in Hunterdon County said it was required when he applied on the NJSP App. or he could not continue to the next step.

Was it his initial application?

[xXxplosive 824]

I believe so....

[glockncolts 50]

This is the thread about requalification. . I have never seen that form required for requal.. omo 

[xXxplosive 824]

Check NJSP website...........

[124gr9mm 859]

1 hour ago, glockncolts said:

This is the thread about requalification. . I have never seen that form required for requal.. omo 

Indeed, but this is a good discussion, and what you haven't seen could probably fill a library (just kidding!!)

When I did my requal (the subject of this thread) the instructor handed us a completed 182 and blank 182a and advised to hand BOTH completed forms in to our local PD.  My local firearms clerk thanked me when I handed it in and advised that she was expecting to receive them 'from everyone'.

 

 

 

[Golf battery 1,223]

5 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

 

The wording of the statute is peculiar. The onus is on the Chief or Superintendent to determine what you intend to carry at the time that you submit the application. There is also a section that allows the NJSP Superintendent to specify the required forms used to apply.

I read this as making the SP.182a mandatory when you apply as allowable under the statute.

However, the day you apply is an single point in time. What you intend to carry at that time and what you intend to carry a year later are not necessarily the same thing. There may be a gun (or three) that you didn't even own at the time you applied for your carry permit. There is nothing in the statute that gives NJSP or any PD the authority to demand any additional forms between permit applications.

TLDR; I believe the SP.182a form can be required to be submitted as part of an application for a permit. It does not need to be filled in at any other time.

Yup. Exactly.  What i was texting you last night. Within new bylaws.  Do you need a use of force class if you qualified prior to their dates listed    It denotes nothing about that.  

[Tunaman 549]

I consider it a gift that we dont have to qualify with every gun anymore.  More guns meant more money.  That is now gone.  Send the form in.  Thanks to Dan Schmutter ,  Scott Bach,  Evan Nappen, Anthony Colandro and all others that were involved with getting these restrictions removed.  These guys are doing the heavy lifting behind the scenes.  Pay attention people.

[kc17 622]

2 hours ago, Tunaman said:

I consider it a gift that we dont have to qualify with every gun anymore.  More guns meant more money.  That is now gone.  Send the form in.  Thanks to Dan Schmutter ,  Scott Bach,  Evan Nappen, Anthony Colandro and all others that were involved with getting these restrictions removed.  These guys are doing the heavy lifting behind the scenes.  Pay attention people.

Fully agree, our side has made significant strides recently; I can only imagine the long hours they have been putting in.

I do want to point out, not all ranges were/are charging per gun for qualifications though. When I did my initial qualification at Shooters for example, I had two guns signed off on for the price of one. I'd have to check my notes, but I think they did up to five or ten before they charged an extra fee. They were also cheaper than many other ranges. As mentioned in this thread, they are also offering to requalify 4000 people under the new rules at no charge, I was one of them. Let's say they can get the required FBI Q Targets for 50 cents a pop (they use the cardboard version). That's $2000 out of Shooters' pocket just on targets, assuming all 4000 people come back to requalify. Labor costs are likely fixed, unless they needed to increase employee work hours to get them done, I don't know. But it's still work hours they are putting in while not generating revenue. They also have to close those lanes to potential paying customers for the qualification. 

How many other ranges are doing that? I think more are going the opposite route and charging for requalification. Some of them forced people to pay for additional courses before letting them qualify in the first place also. I agree it is the range's right to do so, it's their business and they can set their own policies and rates as they wish. Just as it's my right to go someplace else, for as long as there's still options out there. 

When I went to Shooters to requalify, I purchased a bit over $250 worth of merchandise as a small thank you. They'd get much more of my money from other purchases if they weren't nearly an hour away (more when shore traffic is factored in). The places charging at every chance they can... I won't spend a dime there unless I have no other choice. 

[Tunaman 549]

1 minute ago, kc17 said:

Fully agree, our side has made significant strides recently; I can only imagine the long hours they have been putting in.

I do want to point out, not all ranges were/are charging per gun for qualifications though. When I did my initial qualification at Shooters for example, I had two guns signed off on for the price of one. I'd have to check my notes, but I think they did up to five or ten before they charged an extra fee. They were also cheaper than many other ranges. As mentioned in this thread, they are also offering to requalify 4000 people under the new rules at no charge, I was one of them. Let's say they can get the required FBI Q Targets for 50 cents a pop (they use the cardboard version). That's $2000 out of Shooters' pocket just on targets, assuming all 4000 people come back to requalify. Labor costs are likely fixed, unless they needed to increase employee work hours to get them done, I don't know. But it's still work hours they are putting in while not generating revenue. They also have to close those lanes to potential paying customers for the qualification. 

How many other ranges are doing that? I think more are going the opposite route and charging for requalification. Some of them forced people to pay for additional courses before letting them qualify in the first place also. I agree it is the range's right to do so, it's their business and they can set their own policies and rates as they wish. Just as it's my right to go someplace else, for as long as there's still options out there. 

When I went to Shooters to requalify, I purchased a bit over $250 worth of merchandise as a small thank you. They'd get much more of my money from other purchases if they weren't nearly an hour away (more when shore traffic is factored in). The places charging at every chance they can... I won't spend a dime there unless I have no other choice. 

Just remember that some ranges that have qualified THOUSANDS of RPO's,  and Security using the old standards.  It is not the ranges fault that the state changed the rules(for the better for us).  Some ranges can absorb that loss and some cant.  The slight cost for the requal covers the renewal in 2 yrs anyway so the cost is almost moot at this point.  Renewal should be a breeze. 

[xXxplosive 824]

After making almost 400K on the backs of NJ gun owners....I believe they can afford the price of targets...stop cryin'......omo.....the private instructor I use showed up in his brand new pick-up.....NG.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

49 minutes ago, xXxplosive said:

After making almost 400K on the back of NJ gun owners....I believe they can afford the price of targets...stop cryin'......omo.....the private instructor I use showed up in his brand new pick-up.....NG.

is that 400k net or gross? how about their insurance? and the pay for their instructors? and utilities?  

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

16 hours ago, Golf battery said:

Yup. Exactly.  What i was texting you last night. Within new bylaws.  Do you need a use of force class if you qualified prior to their dates listed    It denotes nothing about that.  

2C:58-4 Permits to carry handguns.

   2C:58-4. g.   Training requirement. (1) On or prior to the first day of the seventh month following the enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.), the superintendent shall establish training requirements in the lawful and safe handling and storage of firearms, which shall consist of an online course of instruction, in-person classroom instruction, and target training administered by a certified firearm instructor on a firing range approved by the superintendent and on the list of approved ranges published on the State Police website. The training shall include, but not be limited to, demonstration of a level of proficiency in the use of a handgun in such manner as required by the superintendent and training, developed or approved in conjunction with the Police Training Commission, on justification in the use of deadly force under State law.
 
   (2) A person who obtained a permit pursuant to this section prior to the first day of the seventh month following the date of enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.) and which permit is not scheduled to expire until at least one year following the enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.) shall comply with the training requirement established pursuant to this subsection no later than the first day of the tenth month following the date of enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.).

 

There are 3 parts to the new training protocol. The range portion (CCARE) is only part. Completion of the online training and the instructor lead class on use of force are the other 2 parts and must be completed as well.

It should be noted that the deadline was extended to December 31st, 2023 when the AG sent his memo about CCARE.

 

If you did use of force as part of the training you received prior to July 21st (or maybe 18th, or maybe 1st) and it covered all of the aspects now defined in the NJSP document, you are good to go. Your instructor should be able to sign an SP.182 for you without any further training.

[xXxplosive 824]

2 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

is that 400k net or gross? how about their insurance? and the pay for their instructors? and utilities?  

If it weren't for Thomas and Bruen this windfall of 400K would have never happened.......get a cryin' towel.............omo.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

4 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

is that 400k net or gross? how about their insurance? and the pay for their instructors? and utilities?  

Has any of that a actually changed their bottom line? Or are they just adding to it?

[xXxplosive 824]

It's a "Bonus"........bad enough having to deal with the likes of NJ while being fleeced by the folks who are supposed to be.....wait for it............ the "Tip Of The Spear".........Ha, what a joke.......omo.

[10X 3,298]

32 minutes ago, xXxplosive said:

bad enough having to deal with the likes of NJ while being fleeced by the folks who are supposed to be.....wait for it............ the "Tip Of The Spear"

I guess we should nationalize all of the ranges.  Only under a socialist system would we eliminate the problem of people overpaying for firearms training.

[Tunaman 549]

1 hour ago, xXxplosive said:

It's a "Bonus"........bad enough having to deal with the likes of NJ while being fleeced by the folks who are supposed to be.....wait for it............ the "Tip Of The Spear".........Ha, what a joke.......omo.

Yea we get it...everyone is trying to fleece you.  Time to get out of your mothers basement.

[124gr9mm 859]

1 hour ago, xXxplosive said:

It's a "Bonus"........bad enough having to deal with the likes of NJ while being fleeced by the folks who are supposed to be.....wait for it............ the "Tip Of The Spear".........Ha, what a joke.......omo.

Nobody's forcing you to do anything, so i'm not sure how you're getting fleeced.  If you don't want to follow the absurd process to get a carry permit right now then don't do it.  Wait until NJ follows the rest of the sane states and goes to Constitutional carry.  Nobody will give a shit if you do or if you don't, so you're not compelled to act.

IF you want to get a carry permit then you need to have a residence in NJ, DL, qual, FID, fingerprints, references, etc, etc.

All of those things cost money.

Right, ranges in NJ should open their doors and loose money because some random guy who calls himself 'xXxplosive' on an internet forum cries like a 3rd grader about 'muh gun groups should represent me for free'.

 

 

 

 

[Tunaman 549]

27 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

Nobody's forcing you to do anything, so i'm not sure how you're getting fleeced.  If you don't want to follow the absurd process to get a carry permit right now then don't do it.  Wait until NJ follows the rest of the sane states and goes to Constitutional carry.  Nobody will give a shit if you do or if you don't, so you're not compelled to act.

IF you want to get a carry permit then you need to have a residence in NJ, DL, qual, FID, fingerprints, references, etc, etc.

All of those things cost money.

Right, ranges in NJ should open their doors and loose money because some random guy who calls himself 'xXxplosive' on an internet forum cries like a 3rd grader about 'muh gun groups should represent me for free'.

 

 

 

 

He has a gripe about Anthony that he cant let go.  Just keeps on embarrassing himself.

[xXxplosive 824]

.........

[Ringwoodfrank 24]

So I don’t know if this was discussed in this thread, but my Chief of Police emailed me back that no requalification paperwork was required until renewal. 
As the guy who issued and signed my permit, I’m more than good. 

[JohnnyB 4,325]

3 minutes ago, Ringwoodfrank said:

So I don’t know if this was discussed in this thread, but my Chief of Police emailed me back that no requalification paperwork was required until renewal. 
As the guy who issued and signed my permit, I’m more than good. 

Brings up a question in my mind. The permit is a New Jersey permit to carry sanctioned by the state. To keep your permit valid past 12/31/23 certain training requirements were amended to include holster draw, etc. The STATE requires a form SP 182 be presented to whoever issued your permit to prove you met that requirement.

Let's just say You get stopped in any other town in NJ and run into a problem and they check to see if you did the re-qualification and turned in the SP 182.  They ask your CPD for the form and he says he does not have it and knows nothing about that requirement. So your CPD made a mistake. Does that mean that you are good to go and your permit is valid since the CPD screwed up?  I would say your permit would be considered invalid since the rules were not followed regardless of whos fault it is.

"As the guy who issued and signed my permit, I’m more than good."  I would strongly suggest you re-think that statement!

 

[Ringwoodfrank 24]

I’m not going to overthink my statement.  Unless and until I receive correspondence from the State Attorney General, I will follow the guidance of the Chief, along with his written affirmation email that requalification was not required until renewal.