the new Attorney General's interpretation of 2C:39-1w. "Assault Firearm" means "Avtomat Kalashnikov Type Semiautomatic Firearms".

[BRN169 6]

In my opinion, the only thing that allowed us to own AR and AK style rifles was the Attorney General's clarification letter from a few years ago which carved out exemptions based on the evil features compliance game. It sure looks like the new Attorney General may be in the process of re-clarifying the clarification, and not in our favor.

Who are you going to complian to? The law hasn't changed, it's interpretation has. No NJ court will back our position. Fox viewers nationwide may realize a travesty when they see it, but here in NJ it will be business as usual. Our only friends in this state are Federal Courts.

 

 

I don't think we know that. AFAIK, there has been no major court case on "re-clarifying the clarification" and re-interpretation of firearms laws. A class action is the only way to see what happens in NJ courts. A place to start would be to identify 2A supporting gun-owning judges and file motion there, make a big stink in the news media ... go from there.

 

Wow, how old are you guys? The Colt Match Target/Springfield M1A AG Directive from March 31, 1997 and the AG guidelines issued August 19, 1996, regarding the “substantially identical” provision of the assault weapons law were a direct result of the Coalition for New Jersey Sportsmen, Springfield Armory and Colt Manufacturing suing the state over the language in the law. Specifically pinning them down on what "substantially identical" meant. The judge in the case asked the AG to give his interpretation and that is what we got. They grasped for every straw they could but the "banned as a type" crap was a rather poorly researched stretch to protect as much of the law as they could... They did manage to get the language in the bill that attempted to give the AG the ability to update the list of weaspons annually in the law... Could you imagine?

[vladtepes 1,060]

in the bill that attempted to give the AG the ability to update the list of weaspons annually in the law... Could you imagine?

 

 

yeah I can imagine..

 

2011 list of NJ legal firearms..

 

1. single shot shotgun

2. single shot 22 bolt action rifle

 

2011 list of illegal firearms..

 

everything else...

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

yeah I can imagine..

 

2011 list of NJ legal firearms..

 

1. single shot shotgun

2. single shot 22 bolt action rifle

 

2011 list of illegal firearms..

 

everything else...

 

You forgot one thing, the shotgun will be .410 or smaller.....

[vladtepes 1,060]

I have a really good idea.. lets stop asking the police about "other" rifles and if they are legal or not.. assume that guns you legally purchased in NJ from legitimate operating firearms dealers are legal until otherwise told.. I have this funny feeling that ringing the firearms divisions phone off the hook asking about every variant there is, will only create more problems... learn the lesson we learned when people repeatedly called about the M1 carbine.. STOP BOTHERING THE NJSP...

 

just my 2 cents..

 

 

THIS.

 

Who is to blame?

 

a ) New Jersey's vague laws

b ) Anti-Gun Politicians and Cronies

c ) Distributors who lack balls, i.e. Century Arms.

d ) Ourselves for referring to WASRs, SARs and others as AK-47s.

 

while I am sure they all share a little of the blame.. I am going to go with D... NJ has already illustrated it is completely out of touch with firearms related items.. If people would not ring the phones off the hooks in the NJSP firearms division I think it unlikely that this stuff would even come up as they may not even realize it exists...

 

but seriously.. wasr.. sar.. they are NOT AK GUNS.. they are different guns period.. and providing they are not "substantially identical" as clearly defined.. they they should be legal without any serious consideration..

[vladtepes 1,060]

You forgot one thing, the shotgun will be .410 or smaller.....

 

 

lol

no doubt

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

lol

no doubt

 

 

dude, that single shot shotgun will have to be .22 using ratshot

[BRN169 6]

dude, that single shot shotgun will have to be .22 using ratshot

 

LOL the only legal ones would be .410 airsoft shotguns...

[usnmars 136]

Does anybody have this in writing yet? I am ready to stir up a $hit storm!!!!

[kenw 293]

I haven't heard anything.

[usnmars 136]

Has anybody even heard anything from the NRA yet? And they wonder why I didn't renew my membership this year--LOL

[maideneddie 35]

So if you didn't purchase this gun from Cheyanne Mountain, how would you know it is no longer legal? Would the state police contact you, or are you on your own to stay up to date with current NJ gun laws? This whole thing seems to be a little convoluted to me.

[BRN169 6]

So if you didn't purchase this gun from Cheyanne Mountain, how would you know it is no longer legal? Would the state police contact you, or are you on your own to stay up to date with current NJ gun laws? This whole thing seems to be a little convoluted to me.

 

Welcome to New Jersey...

[tuktuk 16]

while walking into the CMO i met another IO rifle owner who just surrendered his, he was mad as hell. while talking to staff inside one more owner walked it. so at least the store did a good job on contacting ppl. i spoke to Dave (the owner of CMO). he told me that they have no idea why IO rifles are being pulled. he said he was on the phone with NRA and IO the whole day yday and today in the mourning. both NRA and IO hired lawyers and challenging the state. he gave me several options: full refund, full credit plus discount towards any firearm in the store or to let CMO keep my IO rifle for 2-3 weeks to see where the wind will blow. when i asked him about ordering that Century Polish rifle he was hesitant to do so. Dave didnt say yes and he didnt say no. he just said lets wait a lil and see wat happens. so this is all the info i got so far. they said they will call me if there are any news.

[Radek 73]

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This state is depriving me of happiness and should be abolished from the union! Of course, we all will have to move to America, which is fine by me.:thsmiley_deadhorse:

[halbautomatisch 60]

You ARE kidding right?? You are talking about the same state, where the State Supreme Court Violated the State Cosntitution pertaining to Elections, to keep a Senate Seat Democrat. There is no WAY IN HELL the SCONJ would ever rule in FAVOR of any gun owner.

I know the courts in this state is as biased to left as they come. But the federal courts also have done nothing.

 

I think we need to remind Christie he will have major political problems in the future if he pisses off gun owners (especially nationally).

[stever 16]

Possibly this is what we need to trigger SAF and others to start the wheels rolling for a federal lawsuit against NJ..this just might be the catalyst to spark it...this reeks of 2nd amend unconstitutional abuse.

[matty 810]

while walking into the CMO i met another IO rifle owner who just surrendered his, he was mad as hell. while talking to staff inside one more owner walked it. so at least the store did a good job on contacting ppl. i spoke to Dave (the owner of CMO). he told me that they have no idea why IO rifles are being pulled. he said he was on the phone with NRA and IO the whole day yday and today in the mourning. both NRA and IO hired lawyers and challenging the state. he gave me several options: full refund, full credit plus discount towards any firearm in the store or to let CMO keep my IO rifle for 2-3 weeks to see where the wind will blow. when i asked him about ordering that Century Polish rifle he was hesitant to do so. Dave didnt say yes and he didnt say no. he just said lets wait a lil and see wat happens. so this is all the info i got so far. they said they will call me if there are any news.

 

Well, good that someone is talking with lawyers about this,especially the manufacturer. I would think someone who was required to turn their gun in would also be mad enough to consult a lawyer.

 

Christie the Fat Slob has done worse than appoint a do-nothing AG, he appointed an AG that is politically opposite to a core group of supporters that put him in the Govs chair. Why, I don't know, but I have a feeling it may have something to do with Sheila Oliver being the Assembly Ldr and Dick Codey being ousted by Sweeney. Nothing in politics happens by accident, especially in NJ. Probably a tradeoff between Oliver, Sweeney and Tubbo Christie, so Chris Lardass could get some traction in the state legislature for his other smoke and mirros nonsense. In the end, Dow, like the others before her will not make a dent in, or even notice corruption in NJ. But will claim accomplishments such as tightening gun control by "re-interpreting" existing laws.

To add to the tinfoil hattery---Perhaps the AG re-interpretations are trial balloons for the BATFE and other states to bypass the legislative process and courts, by having un-elected buerorats do the dirty work---

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

Christie the Fat Slob has done worse than appoint a do-nothing AG, he appointed an AG that is politically opposite to a core group of supporters that put him in the Govs chair. Why, I don't know, but I have a feeling it may have something to do with Sheila Oliver being the Assembly Ldr and Dick Codey being ousted by Sweeney. Nothing in politics happens by accident, especially in NJ. Probably a tradeoff between Oliver, Sweeney and Tubbo Christie, so Chris Lardass could get some traction in the state legislature for his other smoke and mirros nonsense. In the end, Dow, like the others before her will not make a dent in, or even notice corruption in NJ. But will claim accomplishments such as tightening gun control by "re-interpreting" existing laws.

To add to the tinfoil hattery---Perhaps the AG re-interpretations are trial balloons for the BATFE and other states to bypass the legislative process and courts, by having un-elected buerorats do the dirty work---

 

 

I always told people, we're one step forward with Sweeney in the Senate, but at least two steps back with Paula Dow as NJ AG. *SHE* is the one to keep an eye on. Remember, she stated in one NJ newspaper that gun buybacks weren't about reducing crime, or getting guns off the streets, they're about getting guns out of people's homes!!

[BRN169 6]

Possibly this is what we need to trigger SAF and others to start the wheels rolling for a federal lawsuit against NJ..this just might be the catalyst to spark it...this reeks of 2nd amend unconstitutional abuse.

 

This may be the next or perhaps a second issue to attack but it is clear from the 4th and 2nd circuit cases that have already been filed what they intend to do. We are the most likely target for attack in the 3rd circuit given the climate we live with in this state. NJ has so many things wrong with its gun laws and the way it persecutes gun owners, every gun rights group could pick a different issue to attack and we would still find things we were not happy with. You will see some movement sooner than you think... Sit tight grasshopper, go buy a big bag of popcorn and get ready for the show.

[halbautomatisch 60]

If you are wondering how we got to this point in this state, the anti gun legislators actually documented their arrogance in the criminal code.

 

I think the first finding of the legislature should read "New Jersey's commitment to violating your constitutional rights is unrivaled anywhere in the nation"

 

 

 

 

 

 

2C:58-2.2 Findings, declarations relative to sale of handguns.

 

1. a. The Legislature finds:

 

New Jersey's commitment to firearms safety is unrivaled anywhere in the nation;

 

New Jersey was the first state to require retail dealers to include, as part of every handgun sale, either a State Police approved trigger lock or a locked case, gun box, container or other secure facility;

 

To encourage all firearms owners to practice safe storage, the State has waived all sales taxes on trigger locks, firearms lock-boxes and vaults and, under the "KeepSafe" program, offers an instant $5 rebate to all retail firearms purchasers who buy a compatible trigger locking device along with their firearm;

 

New Jersey was the first state to require all firearms dealers to prominently display State-provided firearms information and safety warnings;

 

New Jersey was one of the first states to make parents and guardians statutorily responsible for unwittingly or carelessly permitting minors under their control to gain access to loaded firearms;

 

New Jersey statutorily prohibits anyone under the age of 18 years from purchasing or otherwise acquiring a firearm and permits such minors to possess or carry a firearm only in a very limited number of strictly defined situations and under the direct supervision of a qualified parent, guardian or instructor;

 

To enforce this strict regulatory scheme, New Jersey imposes harsh penalties, including a mandatory minimum prison term of three years, on anyone who knowingly sells, transfers or gives a firearm to a person under the age of 18 years; and

 

New Jersey was the first state to allocate, as part of its annual Appropriations Act, moneys dedicated exclusively for the development of personal handgun technology, and the amount so allocated, $1,000,000, was one-fifth the total amount the federal government allocated toward the development of this important firearms safety technology in the same fiscal year.

[Parker 213]

Maybe the AG decided so after watching this video?

http://www.apacheclips.com/media/24784/HAHA_Jihadi_Accident/

[vjf915 456]

You will see some movement sooner than you think... Sit tight grasshopper, go buy a big bag of popcorn and get ready for the show.

I dont know if its just you, or others that are saying this.....but I KEEP seeing it on this forum. I really do hope that this is true. And if it is true, I think we should make it a little more public on this forum as to which organizations are a little more prevalent in this "show".....as I, and I hope others, would like to support those who actually plan to be ACTIVE in fighting these situations.

[BRN169 6]

I dont know if its just you, or others that are saying this.....but I KEEP seeing it on this forum. I really do hope that this is true. And if it is true, I think we should make it a little more public on this forum as to which organizations are a little more prevalent in this "show".....as I, and I hope others, would like to support those who actually plan to be ACTIVE in fighting these situations.

 

 

Lets look at what we know...

 

1) SAF is filing federal law suits against the most restrictive carry states one at a time much as they did in the run up to McDonald: CA, IL, MD, NY, etc.

2) They are looking for cases strategically by district.

3) They have filed against individual county sheriffs in CA in District 9

4) They have filed against IL in District 7

5) They have filed against MD in District 4

6) They have filed against NY in District 2

 

 

 

When you compare the US District Court map with the 2011 "right-to-carry" map, what is left; District 1 and District 3... Obviously Massachusetts and New Jersey would be the most likely candidate states in those respective districts. The strategery would seem to be to shotgun the District Courts looking for conflicting decisions that could be run all the way up to the SCOTUS. They are turning the way liberals have used the courts for the last 40+ years in an organized effort to attack our liberties against them and I for one am happy as hell they are finally sticking it to them with their own process. The trick now is to get these cases up to the top before our Marxist in Chief can further corrupt the SCOTUS. All you need is one more Marxist on the bench to flip the 5-4 majority against the Constitution and we will be twisting in the wind for a decade.

 

That said we also know the SAF has been soliciting potential candidate cases in NJ through the ANJRPC and NJCSD. I am sure with NJ being so openly hostile to gun rights they are crossing their Ts and dotting their Is. They could also be looking at multiple litigants in this state in either a combined complaint or separate individual complaints which would further delay filing. Either way I am shocked we have not already seen something filed and I can't imagine they would not file something before the end of the year... I have been somewhat ahead of the curve in calling this stuff for the last 10 years I have been paying attention to it, lets say I have had a better than good batting average in reading the tea leaves and if they do not file against NJ and or MA in at least the next 2-5 weeks I will be highly shocked. I am confident that NJ is going to get its a** handed to it in short order and am sort of surprised at the political hacks in Trenton content in their smug distain for gun rights that they do not see the tsunami coming.

[kenw 293]

I have been somewhat ahead of the curve in calling this stuff for the last 10 years I have been paying attention to it, lets say I have had a better than good batting average in reading the tea leaves and if they do not file against NJ and or MA in at least the next 2-5 weeks I will be highly shocked. I am confident that NJ is going to get its a** handed to it in short order and am sort of surprised at the political hacks in Trenton content in their smug distain for gun rights that they do not see the tsunami coming.

Maybe it's because instead of relying on tea leaves and wishful thinking, they actually have facts.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

Lets look at what we know...

 

1) SAF is filing federal law suits against the most restrictive carry states one at a time much as they did in the run up to McDonald: CA, IL, MD, NY, etc.

2) They are looking for cases strategically by district.

3) They have filed against individual county sheriffs in CA in District 9

4) They have filed against IL in District 7

5) They have filed against MD in District 4

6) They have filed against NY in District 2

 

 

 

When you compare the US District Court map with the 2011 "right-to-carry" map, what is left; District 1 and District 3... Obviously Massachusetts and New Jersey would be the most likely candidate states in those respective districts. The strategery would seem to be to shotgun the District Courts looking for conflicting decisions that could be run all the way up to the SCOTUS. They are turning the way liberals have used the courts for the last 40+ years in an organized effort to attack our liberties against them and I for one am happy as hell they are finally sticking it to them with their own process. The trick now is to get these cases up to the top before our Marxist in Chief can further corrupt the SCOTUS. All you need is one more Marxist on the bench to flip the 5-4 majority against the Constitution and we will be twisting in the wind for a decade.

 

That said we also know the SAF has been soliciting potential candidate cases in NJ through the ANJRPC and NJCSD. I am sure with NJ being so openly hostile to gun rights they are crossing their Ts and dotting their Is. They could also be looking at multiple litigants in this state in either a combined complaint or separate individual complaints which would further delay filing. Either way I am shocked we have not already seen something filed and I can't imagine they would not file something before the end of the year... I have been somewhat ahead of the curve in calling this stuff for the last 10 years I have been paying attention to it, lets say I have had a better than good batting average in reading the tea leaves and if they do not file against NJ and or MA in at least the next 2-5 weeks I will be highly shocked. I am confident that NJ is going to get its a** handed to it in short order and am sort of surprised at the political hacks in Trenton content in their smug distain for gun rights that they do not see the tsunami coming.

 

 

I don't know about you, but with this Brian Aitken nonsense going down, CCW should be the least of our worries right now......CCW don't mean anything as long as the NJ Courts say that people who own firearms own them at their own risk.

[BRN169 6]

I don't know about you, but with this Brian Aitken nonsense going down, CCW should be the least of our worries right now......CCW don't mean anything as long as the NJ Courts say that people who own firearms own them at their own risk.

 

While it is a shame what has happened to him that is a somewhat recent event. What I am talking about is a coordinated multi-state legal effort that has been in the planning for more than a decade and the execution of which has been ongoing for the last several years. That effort will inevitably render moot the types of unconstitutional laws which this state used to persecute Brian for exercising his right to own firearms. What I am looking at is a big picture effort. The bulk of the injustice done to Brian will right itself shortly when his case is appealed. In the short term I do not see him overcoming the hi-cap magazine charges which still hold the weight of a third degree crime. That may get straightened out once Heller II is resolved as it addresses assault weapons and magazine capacities as weapons "commonly in use" and thus protected under the second amendment... I am confident better times are ahead of NJ gun owners.

[BRN169 6]

Maybe it's because instead of relying on tea leaves and wishful thinking, they actually have facts.

 

And which one would you be, Siskel or Ebert?

 

I have laid out the events as I see them unfolding for everyone's review. What would be your astutely informed observations of the situation as it is currently unfolding?

 

I'm interested in hearing them there facts that I don't have...

[sig2009 3]

The NRA is actually getting involved with something happening in NJ! I am truely shocked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kenw 293]

And which one would you be, Siskel or Ebert?

 

I have laid out the events as I see them unfolding for everyone's review. What would be your astutely informed observations of the situation as it is currently unfolding?

 

I'm interested in hearing them there facts that I don't have...

Okay, I'll play one more round.

 

I'll first say that I find your optimism refreshing, and in spite of what follows, I hope you're right and I'm wrong. However,

 

Making predictions, without substantiating facts or history of credibility, is both useless and inflammatory.

 

While I'm sure you believe what you're saying, the fact that nobody else seems to have any insight into this massive legal effort that has been building up on a national scale for at least a decade gives me pause to suspect your credibility. It's possible that you alone are privy to this great plan, and that you alone are granted sole permission to hint around the edges about its existence, but that wouldn't be my first thought.

 

No matter, the end of the year is coming, and your prediction of 2 to 5 weeks before something newsworthy happens to make moot the current NJ firearms laws will be soon tested. I suspect you may have to switch from tea leaves to the bones of rodents for your divining.

[BRN169 6]

Okay, I'll play one more round.

 

I'll first say that I find your optimism refreshing, and in spite of what follows, I hope you're right and I'm wrong. However,

 

Making predictions, without substantiating facts or history of credibility, is both useless and inflammatory.

 

While I'm sure you believe what you're saying, the fact that nobody else seems to have any insight into this massive legal effort that has been building up on a national scale for at least a decade gives me pause to suspect your credibility. It's possible that you alone are privy to this great plan, and that you alone are granted sole permission to hint around the edges about its existence, but that wouldn't be my first thought.

 

No matter, the end of the year is coming, and your prediction of 2 to 5 weeks before something newsworthy happens to make moot the current NJ firearms laws will be soon tested. I suspect you may have to switch from tea leaves to the bones of rodents for your divining.

 

I understand, nobody is more pessimistic than I except maybe my wife...

 

You have heard of Heller and McDonald I assume. They did not just appear out of thin air, they were the culmination of many years and even many more cases the took place in a calculated plan. They were only the best cases out of numerous other circuit court cases that made it to the SCOTUS. Think of them as a 1 - 2 punch Heller is the left lead and McDonald is the right cross. Now that the Second Amendment has been held as an individual civil right and has been incorporated against the states the fun begins. The 1 - 2 punch has dealth with the Keep part of Keep and Bear Arms the next logical step is to deal with the Bear part...

 

 

5/5/2009 9th Circuit

The Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) and the Calguns Foundation have filed suit against the Sacramento, CA County sheriff John McGinness and Yolo, CA County Sheriff Ed Prieto over the policies for issuance of carry permits.

 

7/15/2010 2nd Circuit

The Second Amendment Foundation has filed a federal lawsuit against Westchester County, New York and its handgun permit licensing officers, seeking a permanent injunction against enforcement of a state law that allows carry licenses to be denied because applicants cannot show “good cause.”

 

7/29/2010 4th Circuit

The Second Amendment Foundation and a Baltimore County, MD man today sued Maryland authorities because the man’s handgun permit renewal was turned down on the grounds that he could not demonstrate “a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger.”

 

8/16/2010 7th Circuit

The Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) today filed a lawsuit in federal court against the City of Chicago’s new gun ordinance, asserting that “by banning gun ranges open to the public…under color of law,” the city is depriving citizens of their right to keep and bear arms in violation of the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

 

This is not all happening by some sheer coincidence this is a well thought out and coordinated effort to attack the laws in states such as New Jersy that are used to deprive people like you and me our rights. I am telling you they have already said they were looking for candidates in NJ publicly it is only a matter of time... Mark my words :icon_exclaim: