YankeeFan 49 Posted February 1, 2011 Utah Senate passes concealed gun permit change Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YankeeFan 49 Posted February 1, 2011 "A penalty for a nonresidents holding a Utah permit without obtaining a permit from their resident state would be a 10-year ban on being able to get a permit issued by Utah." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old School 611 Posted February 1, 2011 "A penalty for a nonresidents holding a Utah permit without obtaining a permit from their resident state would be a 10-year ban on being able to get a permit issued by Utah." OK so how does this affect you if you currently hold a Utah non-resident permit? What about renewal? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drew 4 Posted February 1, 2011 Would this be retroactive? I was looking at getting my Utah permit this month, but I'm not going to waste the money if they are going to invalidate it or hold up the approval to see where the bill goes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YankeeFan 49 Posted February 1, 2011 I found the text of the bill here: http://le.utah.gov/~2011/bills/sbillint/sb0036.pdf but I have not read through it, so I don't know if it's retroactive or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kristi 7 Posted February 1, 2011 OK so how does this affect you if you currently hold a Utah non-resident permit? What about renewal? from http://le.utah.gov/~2011/bills/sbillint/sb0036.pdf : 37 (ii) In addition to meeting the other qualifications for the issuance of a concealed 38 firearm permit under this section, a nonresident applicant shall: 39 (A) hold a current concealed firearm or concealed weapon permit issued by the 40 appropriate permitting authority of the nonresident applicant's state of residency that recognizes 41 the validity of the Utah permit in that state or has reciprocity with Utah's concealed firearm 42 permit law; and (iv) Beginning January 1, 2012, Subsection (1)(a)(ii) also applies to an application for 49 renewal of a concealed firearm permit by a nonresident. Looks to me like after 2012 you will not be eligible for renewal. Why, as a Utah nonresident holding a CCW permit from your own state "that recognizes the validity of the Utah permit in that state or has reciprocity with Utah's concealed firearm permit law" would you bother paying Utah for a non-resident permit? If your state's permit has reciprocity in UT, why not just save the money and use your existing (reciprocal) permit? They're going to lose a LOT of revenue on this one... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tommy3rd 132 Posted February 1, 2011 it might be going away for everybody else, since Utah honors all permits from all states, as long as you're a resident of that state. This just screws NJ and a couple other states. I wonder if I can sue NJ to get my money back, since it's because of NJ that my non-res Utah will now be invalid. LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drew 4 Posted February 1, 2011 from http://le.utah.gov/~2011/bills/sbillint/sb0036.pdf : 37 (ii) In addition to meeting the other qualifications for the issuance of a concealed 38 firearm permit under this section, a nonresident applicant shall: 39 (A) hold a current concealed firearm or concealed weapon permit issued by the 40 appropriate permitting authority of the nonresident applicant's state of residency that recognizes 41 the validity of the Utah permit in that state or has reciprocity with Utah's concealed firearm 42 permit law; and (iv) Beginning January 1, 2012, Subsection (1)(a)(ii) also applies to an application for 49 renewal of a concealed firearm permit by a nonresident. Looks to me like after 2012 you will not be eligible for renewal. Why, as a Utah nonresident holding a CCW permit from your own state "that recognizes the validity of the Utah permit in that state or has reciprocity with Utah's concealed firearm permit law" would you bother paying Utah for a non-resident permit? If your state's permit has reciprocity in UT, why not just save the money and use your existing (reciprocal) permit? They're going to lose a LOT of revenue on this one... Great, I guess I'm back to going for the Florida Permit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
axeman_g 128 Posted February 1, 2011 Well i quess that shuts down the class at the end of Feb at the club. Crud. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kenw 293 Posted February 1, 2011 That's a shame. There were a few guys turning the Utah CCW classes into a nice little cottage industry here in NJ. I hope FL doesn't look at this as a workable idea. That would be bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted February 1, 2011 That's a shame. There were a few guys turning the Utah CCW classes into a nice little cottage industry here in NJ. I hope FL doesn't look at this as a workable idea. That would be bad. I have 7 years on my FL permit.. if I am not living in a free state by 40 I deserve what I get.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tactical Monkey 51 Posted February 1, 2011 Well i quess that shuts down the class at the end of Feb at the club. Crud. 12 pages worth of guys signed up that class, myself included... Go figure Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bry@n 195 Posted February 1, 2011 glad I didn't do the UT ccw.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downr@nge 22 Posted February 1, 2011 Wow, this is MESSED UP!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted February 2, 2011 Just great, they're now lumped in with PA and NH. Somebody smashed a gem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrjam2jab 9 Posted February 2, 2011 it might be going away for everybody else, since Utah honors all permits from all states, as long as you're a resident of that state. This just screws NJ and a couple other states. I wonder if I can sue NJ to get my money back, since it's because of NJ that my non-res Utah will now be invalid. LOL It wont affect you guys in NJ...since NJ does not have reciprocity with anybody... read this again: 37 (ii) In addition to meeting the other qualifications for the issuance of a concealed 38 firearm permit under this section, a nonresident applicant shall: 39 (A) hold a current concealed firearm or concealed weapon permit issued by the 40 appropriate permitting authority of the nonresident applicant's state of residency that recognizes 41 the validity of the Utah permit in that state or has reciprocity with Utah's concealed firearm 42 permit law; and Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daedalus 19 Posted February 2, 2011 37 (ii) In addition to meeting the other qualifications for the issuance of a concealed38 firearm permit under this section, a nonresident applicant shall: 39 (A) hold a current concealed firearm or concealed weapon permit issued by the 40 appropriate permitting authority of the nonresident applicant's state of residency that recognizes 41 the validity of the Utah permit in that state or has reciprocity with Utah's concealed firearm 42 permit law; and Mrjam2jab is right. Unless there are other provisions not shown here it should not restrict NJ residents from obtaining the Utah CFP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrjam2jab 9 Posted February 2, 2011 Just great, they're now lumped in with PA and NH. Somebody smashed a gem. NH doesn't require you to have a home state permit...but a permit from ANY state... Page 2 of the application A non-resident pistol permit will not be issued unless you supply: 1) A copy (front & back) of your valid concealed carry permit issued by the state, county, or town in which you reside, or a valid concealed permit issued by any other state. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tommy3rd 132 Posted February 2, 2011 It wont affect you guys in NJ...since NJ does not have reciprocity with anybody... read this again: 37 (ii) In addition to meeting the other qualifications for the issuance of a concealed 38 firearm permit under this section, a nonresident applicant shall: 39 (A) hold a current concealed firearm or concealed weapon permit issued by the 40 appropriate permitting authority of the nonresident applicant's state of residency that recognizes 41 the validity of the Utah permit in that state or has reciprocity with Utah's concealed firearm 42 permit law; and oh. didn't see that in the article. So i guess the article was not too clear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrjam2jab 9 Posted February 2, 2011 oh. didn't see that in the article. So i guess the article was not too clear. Here's the Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notmetoo 41 Posted February 2, 2011 I don't see anything about open carry in the bill... Currently anyone can open carry in Utah without a permit. I did that last summer around Moab and in a few National Parks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drew 4 Posted February 2, 2011 I'm sorry, but I think it still affects/effects NJ: 37 (ii) In addition to meeting the other qualifications for the issuance of a concealed 38 firearm permit under this section, a nonresident applicant shall: 39 (A) hold a current concealed firearm or concealed weapon permit issued by the 40 appropriate permitting authority of the nonresident applicant's state of residency that recognizes 41 the validity of the Utah permit in that state or has reciprocity with Utah's concealed firearm 42 permit law; and The way I read it, you cant get a nonresident unless you have a resident CCW of another state that has reciprocity with Utah. If the state doesn't have reciprocity with Utah then you cant get a non-res CCW whether you have a resident CCW or not. I know that sounds crazy, but that's how it reads to me. Anyone have a Legal resource we could ask? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tommy3rd 132 Posted February 2, 2011 I'm sorry, but I think it still affects/effects NJ: it's the one line that excludes NJ residents: that recognizes the validity of the Utah permit in that state or has reciprocity with Utah's concealed firearm permit law; and NJ doesn't care about any other state's permit. Even if Obama personally issues you one, you'll still get arrested in Jersey. lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted February 2, 2011 It wont affect you guys in NJ...since NJ does not have reciprocity with anybody... read this again: 37 (ii) In addition to meeting the other qualifications for the issuance of a concealed 38 firearm permit under this section, a nonresident applicant shall: 39 (A) hold a current concealed firearm or concealed weapon permit issued by the 40 appropriate permitting authority of the nonresident applicant's state of residency that recognizes 41 the validity of the Utah permit in that state or has reciprocity with Utah's concealed firearm 42 permit law; and Lets simply the language. Bob wants to apply for a Utah CCW. 37 (ii) In addition to meeting the other qualifications for the issuance of a concealed 38 firearm permit under this section, Bob shall: 39 (A) hold a CCW issued by the 40 NJ state Police If NJ has recognizes the UTAH Permit or If NJ has reciprocity with Utah's concealed firearm 42 permit law What this says to me is that they will only give you a non-resident permit If NJ recognizes UTAH Permit or has reciprocity. Meaning as long as NJ recognizes Utah and you have a CCW from NJ, you can get a Utah CCW. See the difference? They're saying that if Utah does not recognize NJ but NJ recognizes Utah, you can get a Utah Permit as long as you have a NJ permit. Since NJ does not recognize Utah nor does NJ issue permits to regular plebes, a person from NJ can never get a Utah permit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drew 4 Posted February 2, 2011 it's the one line that excludes NJ residents: and NJ doesn't care about any other state's permit. Even if Obama personally issues you one, you'll still get arrested in Jersey. lol That is where my confusion is because Shall (to me) suggests that you must. So read it again with that word instead: 37 (ii) In addition to meeting the other qualifications for the issuance of a concealed 38 firearm permit under this section, a nonresident applicant must: 39 (A) hold a current concealed firearm or concealed weapon permit issued by the 40 appropriate permitting authority of the nonresident applicant's state of residency that recognizes 41 the validity of the Utah permit in that state or has reciprocity with Utah's concealed firearm 42 permit law; and From dictionary.com: shall /ʃæl; unstressed ʃəl/ Show Spelled[shal; unstressed shuhl] Show IPA –auxiliary verb, present singular 1st person shall, 2nd shall or ( Archaic ) shalt, 3rd shall, present plural shall; past singular 1st person should, 2nd should or ( Archaic ) shouldst or should·est, 3rd should, past plural should; imperative, infinitive, and participles lacking. 1. plan to, intend to, or expect to: I shall go later. 2. will have to, is determined to, or definitely will: You shall do it. He shall do it. 3. (in laws, directives, etc.) must; is or are obliged to: The meetings of the council shall be public. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Regulator72 80 Posted February 2, 2011 Lets simply the language. Bob wants to apply for a Utah CCW. 37 (ii) In addition to meeting the other qualifications for the issuance of a concealed 38 firearm permit under this section, Bob shall: 39 (A) hold a CCW issued by the 40 NJ state Police If NJ has recognizes the UTAH Permit or If NJ has reciprocity with Utah's concealed firearm 42 permit law What this says to me is that they will only give you a non-resident permit If NJ recognizes UTAH Permit or has reciprocity. Meaning as long as NJ recognizes Utah and you have a CCW from NJ, you can get a Utah CCW. See the difference? They're saying that if Utah does not recognize NJ but NJ recognizes Utah, you can get a Utah Permit as long as you have a NJ permit. Since NJ does not recognize Utah nor does NJ issue permits to regular plebes, a person from NJ can never get a Utah permit. +1 What he said! Thats how I read it as well ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrjam2jab 9 Posted February 2, 2011 Lets simply the language. Bob wants to apply for a Utah CCW. 37 (ii) In addition to meeting the other qualifications for the issuance of a concealed 38 firearm permit under this section, Bob shall: 39 (A) hold a CCW issued by the 40 NJ state Police If NJ has recognizes the UTAH Permit or If NJ has reciprocity with Utah's concealed firearm 42 permit law What this says to me is that they will only give you a non-resident permit If NJ recognizes UTAH Permit or has reciprocity. Meaning as long as NJ recognizes Utah and you have a CCW from NJ, you can get a Utah CCW. See the difference? They're saying that if Utah does not recognize NJ but NJ recognizes Utah, you can get a Utah Permit as long as you have a NJ permit. Since NJ does not recognize Utah nor does NJ issue permits to regular plebes, a person from NJ can never get a Utah permit. Ok...it seems that the bill i linked to above was not the most current version... The latest version was amended as such: (4) (a) In addition to meeting the other qualifications for the issuance of a concealed 75 firearm permit under this section, a nonresident applicant S. who resides in a state that 75a recognizes the validity of the Utah permit or has reciprocity with Utah's concealed firearm 75b permit law .S shall: 76 (i) hold a current concealed firearm or concealed weapon permit issued by the 77 appropriate permitting authority of the nonresident applicant's state of residency Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bullpin 0 Posted February 2, 2011 I wa just listening to cam and company talking about this. As long as you live in a state that doesn't have reciprocity with utah you dont need to have a home state ltcf first. N.j. doest recognize utahs permit so we should be ok. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tommy3rd 132 Posted February 2, 2011 Forgive me for being ignorant, but who's cam and company? And why should I believe him/them? Lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bullpin 0 Posted February 2, 2011 http://www.nranews.com/#/nranews Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites