Ed Brown Is Rude At Shot Show 2012

[blksheep 466]

I might drop 3 grand just because he was rude to that guy.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Ed Brown doesn't care and doesn't need to care about the internet. His company puts out high end firearms that are always in demand for more then he can make, the companies you posted are major corporations that put out thousands of products compared to the tiny amount Ed Brown puts out. To compare EB to them is to compare apples to oranges. EB doesn't owe anyone an apology nor does he need to be Mr.Friendly at SHOT SHOW, while it definetly cant hurt to be nice he has a choice of how he is going to treat people even if they are his customers. I highly doubt because a random guy off youtube said hes rude and wont buy anymore of his firearms will even put a dent in EB business.

 

Um, BLACKHAWK! (IIRC) came about because a military guy didn't like his cheap gear. ONE GUY.

MAGPUL came about because a military guy couldn't pull out his AR mag out of his pouch easy. ONE GUY

 

Now both companies put out all kinds of stuff with many workers and dealers nation wide. Just sayin

[zoid 24]

Yes, these dumb kids.

 

Here is a clue, every company out there, including shot show, went out of their way to kiss the a** of every one of these bloggers. These bloggers make a bigger impact that most of the gun rags that get thrown out.

 

go ahead, google any gun out there, see what comes up first, some site, forum, blog, youtube video..... or some magazine article.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45 146k subscribers in 3 years, 51 million video views.

http://www.youtube.c...cy?blend=1&ob=0 182k subscribers, 89 million video views.

 

what was the readership of any gun rag out there?

 

Want some more? Find a gun rag with 2 million subscribers.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/FPSRussia 2,120,230 subscribers, 355,942,803 video views, in less than 2 years.

 

How many guns have those guys sold?

 

And want to hear the silliest fact... any one of those bloggers, can be the next one.

 

So what is more important to a company now... a magazine rag where there is no interaction or instant feedback and that gets thrown away, or some blog that gets on the top page of search results.

 

Even if this guy is out to make himself successful, what do you think a magazine is doing it for? Because they care for glock's success or to sell advertising and subscriptions?

 

I am one of those guys that went on a media pass through the forum. I spent time with CEO's/Executives of a few major manufacturers, met with 2 designers, from Sig, Mr Tanfoglio himself.

 

In the media room, company representatives were in and out every few mins to do an interview with some web media.

 

Just saying. =) The internet is here to stay.

 

 

Over the past 2 years, I have met with easily over 250 or so companies at shot show, only 1 gave me the cold shoulder, also the one with the booth with minimal traffic.... Mr. Ed Brown.

 

Great post Maksim. I have a new knife company started by myself and a friend of mine.

All of our sales have been exclusively through the internet. All of our publicity and marketing

has been done through internet forums and good ol' e-mail. We've never met any of our

parts manufacturers, business partners, knife grinders in person. All of it has been done

via internet and phone, but the relationships have been solid just as if we met in person.

 

We're credible based on our actions and the way we present ourselves "digitally". It's becoming

more and more real. Now this is not to say a guy like Ed Brown can't thrive without it. Hey, if

you're good at what you do then that's that and there are plenty of people who do well without

social media. But it's a powerful tool and certainly not child's play.

[Dan 177]

Great post Maksim. I have a new knife company started by myself and a friend of mine.

All of our sales have been exclusively through the internet. All of our publicity and marketing

has been done through internet forums and good ol' e-mail. We've never met any of our

parts manufacturers, business partners, knife grinders in person. All of it has been done

via internet and phone, but the relationships have been solid just as if we met in person.

 

We're credible based on our actions and the way we present ourselves "digitally". It's becoming

more and more real. Now this is not to say a guy like Ed Brown can't thrive without it. Hey, if

you're good at what you do then that's that and there are plenty of people who do well without

social media. But it's a powerful tool and certainly not child's play.

 

Do tell about this knife company of yours....

[Dan 177]

Or that might just be what the dude SAYS happened. But then again, you beacon me over with that gesture, I may be pissed enough to screw with you. He if really made the gesture he shows in the video, the dickery didn't start with Ed Brown.

 

Why the hell do you go to a convention where there are hundreds of people walking around wanting to know more about your company and products..then you set up a display and booth, man it with representatives, and stand there yourself in person. What...., just to ignore people trying to get your attention? If Brown thought the guy was being a prick trying to get his attention, he should have manned up and told him to F off, instead of his dickery of telling him to come back later so he can take him on some asshat amusment ride.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Not for Nuthin', but who the hell has 40 minutes to look at this latest video clip on this thread??!!

 

Other than watching a couple 3-4 minute clips once in a great while, I don't have the time to watch Youtube crap. And I certainly don't go looking for it. If I want to find-out about something, I visit that company's web site, I don't go looking for BS Schmuck "Experts" doing videos or writing reviews. I ask my friends what they use & what they think. Maybe it's just a generational thing, I'm not sure. I never read a review to buy a gun, a car, rent an apartment for my son, buy a camera system, rent a U-Haul trailer, go to the movies, the list goes on and on! Somehow I got-by?

 

Reviews that are credible are getting pushed aside on places like Google by the number of views from weenie-cams, just because internet-addicted A-holes have to click on the latest Train Wreck! When I can't even trust a Restaurant review anymore just because the amateur "reviewer" didn't get comp'd a free dessert and gets all pissy, the value of the review process itself comes into question! I can't tell you how many times I read with disdain about some of my favorite places to chow-down where this very problem occurs resulting in a bad review for no good reason at all! I go to the same place and experience great food, nice wine, beautiful presentation all combined with attentive, but not "in yer face" service. Meanwhile the "reviewer" is pissing & moaning about price since they're not used to being in a nice establishment.

 

Bottom line: I don't waste my time yearning to ascertain what a complete stranger, that's doing nuthin' more than pimping his own web site, wants me to think! I'm not that adicted!

 

So, boys & girls, what I the Luddite have done is renew my subscription to NJ Monthly, so I can keep up with reviews given by PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISTS. In the 40 minutes that one A-hole wants me to watch his pimped product commercial on Youtube, I can scan my entire magazine, read several reviews on multiple restaurants, use bookmarks in the magazine and take notes on where I may want to go visit (and spend my money) in the future.

 

-30-

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Dave, use the internet for what you NEED. It's there to help you, but of course there are bad things about it. Let's use this forum as an example. Look what it has done for many people who felt alienated for being firearms owners in an anti-gun state.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Professional journalist have probably the most biased reviews i have ever read, and 90% of the time they are promoting the product, not reviewing it. It's one thing to read someone's opinion about something, but you can find tons of useful information where people actually back up there claims. For instance, when my mom was buying a new car she wanted a Prius. After doing some online research i told her hell no don't get it way to many problems(the forums were flooding with issues about the headlights), but all the respected Journalist type reviews raved about the car.... She bought it, the car has a ton of issue's including the headlights no longer working, and i get to tell her "told ya so". Also, toyota claimed that HID bulbs last the lifetime of the car, yet almost every person on the forums claims replacing burnt bulbs at least once a year.. Like ray ray said, there is much to be gained from researching online, and nothing to loose. You need to use your brain a little more because no one is handing you perfect information, and yes you have to sift through a lot of garbage, but in the end it's worth it, and sometimes you discover things you never new existed.

 

When i look for info on a product, i have a certain criteria. I'm not really looking for opinions. I look for comparisons, functionality, accounts of issues and when u get multiple people claiming the same thing, you can start to accept the information.

 

I do agree, people have way to many opinions about things on the internet.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

About the only thing I watch on Youtube are the videos by Hitchcok (spelling?), he seems to have interesting guns to shoot from time to time, and the videos of my, my niece, and my nephew shooting Sporting Clays.

 

I don't trust ANY magazine for honest reviews, I do trust fellow shooters with what they feel about their guns. That is why I asked Dave for advice on some future handgun purchases, he's been doing this sport for just a little while...................

 

How was the Pheasant?

 

By the way, never heard of Ed Brown until I read this thread today. If his guns start at $2K then it really doesn't matter if he is a dork or not, I won't be spending that kind of money on a handgun anyway. Shotguns yes.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

About the only thing I watch on Youtube are the videos by Hitchcok (spelling?), he seems to have interesting guns to shoot from time to time, and the videos of my, my niece, and my nephew shooting Sporting Clays.

 

I don't trust ANY magazine for honest reviews, I do trust fellow shooters with what they feel about their guns. That is why I asked Dave for advice on some future handgun purchases, he's been doing this sport for just a little while...................

 

How was the Pheasant?

 

By the way, never heard of Ed Brown until I read this thread today. If his guns start at $2K then it really doesn't matter if he is a dork or not, I won't be spending that kind of money on a handgun anyway. Shotguns yes.

 

I wrote a piece about it and put it in the Hunting Threads. See "Flying Chickens" Donated to Pizza Joint!

 

The magazine I was referring to was NJ Monthly, for the restaurant reviews, which are highly praised in the restaurant industry.

 

Thanks for the Kudos in regards to selecting hand guns--I'll help any time. Don't be so quick to blow-off a $2K 1911 hand gun. Once you learn how to shoot them, all of the rounds can go through a single hole .

 

Have a nice Monday!

 

Dave

[Dr.Jimmy Rustler 23]

Um, BLACKHAWK! (IIRC) came about because a military guy didn't like his cheap gear. ONE GUY.

MAGPUL came about because a military guy couldn't pull out his AR mag out of his pouch easy. ONE GUY

 

Now both companies put out all kinds of stuff with many workers and dealers nation wide. Just sayin

to my knowledge EB only makes custom 1911s, which are supposedly very high great handguns. therefore id say his work speaks for itself, even if the man making them is a DB. intill someone starts making 1911s that cost half of what EB is selling his at and the quality of them puts his to shame his business wont be affected at all. you have to remember he only puts out so much volume, if a major company like Magpul acted like this at SHOT id say yeah there gonna lose customers but once again that leaves us at apples vs oranges.

[Maksim 1,504]

Vlad, Dave, not disagreeing with you at all about Ed's products. I know he makes terrific products and for now, the amount of people wanting his gun, no matter what, is far outstripping his supply.

 

Youtube reviews... for most things I am going to buy, I will do a google and watch some videos before picking up a magazine. I will then either make my decision with products that are not not likely to burn me, or do more research.

 

When I purchased my car, I looked at forums and other people who owned them, as existing owners are typically the least biased people. They already have to live with the decision they made and are a great source for things, such as whats wrong.

 

Same with restaurant reviews, hotel reviews. I will first and foremost read other people's reviews, instead of the local advertisement for them.

 

Yes, there is a lot of fluff out there, and not everyone with a web cam is an expert, however same as publications in magazines. We just have to use our common sense to figure it out, and to make a decision for ourselves.

 

As we had a discussion in chat, there are some people to whom the first priority is the best product, then there are others who are willing to buy an acceptable product if it comes with an amazing purchasing experience. I am one of those. I drive a problematic BMW because I love the service and personal attention I get when I bring it in for service.

 

So, product not withstanding, I would not purchase a gun from Ed Brown just because of the experience I had. I am not going to go say that the guns are crap, nor do I care if his business goes under or not. I would go ahead and purchase a new gun from SVI, CZ Custom, or other gunsmith, with great product quality, largely based on the exceptional customer service and experiences I have had with the company thus far.

 

Now, if Mr. Brown's company continues when he is no longer with us, and if his intention is to continues his gun company by having someone take over, he really ought to care what the people are saying about him. In 20 years, these 20 year olds on youtube are going to be his target market. By his interaction and outlook on customers, I don't think his intention to do so, and is banking on his name and reputation he garnered to continue with his target market until they are alive. Beyond that, who cares. If so, then it is his perogative.

 

Smith & Wesson, Sig, CZ, are not about one man, and thus why they care about what current and future customers say. Same for SVI, who has as big if not bigger of a backlog.

 

 

Look at United Airlines, even though alot of people have no choice but to fly, how much negative publicity did breaking a guy's guitar do for them?

 

If you knew you had 1 year to live, would you care what people think of you? Probably not. If you knew your company and legacy were going to be around for generations? I bet your outlook would change. This is how I see Ed Brown. If he really intends to continue his company, he really ought to start paying attention to how he treats these internet bloggers.

 

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Vlad, Dave, not disagreeing with you at all about Ed's products. I know he makes terrific products and for now, the amount of people wanting his gun, no matter what, is far outstripping his supply.

 

Youtube reviews... for most things I am going to buy, I will do a google and watch some videos before picking up a magazine. I will then either make my decision with products that are not not likely to burn me, or do more research.

 

When I purchased my car, I looked at forums and other people who owned them, as existing owners are typically the least biased people. They already have to live with the decision they made and are a great source for things, such as whats wrong.

 

Same with restaurant reviews, hotel reviews. I will first and foremost read other people's reviews, instead of the local advertisement for them.

 

Yes, there is a lot of fluff out there, and not everyone with a web cam is an expert, however same as publications in magazines. We just have to use our common sense to figure it out, and to make a decision for ourselves.

 

As we had a discussion in chat, there are some people to whom the first priority is the best product, then there are others who are willing to buy an acceptable product if it comes with an amazing purchasing experience. I am one of those. I drive a problematic BMW because I love the service and personal attention I get when I bring it in for service.

 

So, product not withstanding, I would not purchase a gun from Ed Brown just because of the experience I had. I am not going to go say that the guns are crap, nor do I care if his business goes under or not. I would go ahead and purchase a new gun from SVI, CZ Custom, or other gunsmith, with great product quality, largely based on the exceptional customer service and experiences I have had with the company thus far.

 

Now, if Mr. Brown's company continues when he is no longer with us, and if his intention is to continues his gun company by having someone take over, he really ought to care what the people are saying about him. In 20 years, these 20 year olds on youtube are going to be his target market. By his interaction and outlook on customers, I don't think his intention to do so, and is banking on his name and reputation he garnered to continue with his target market until they are alive. Beyond that, who cares. If so, then it is his perogative.

 

Smith & Wesson, Sig, CZ, are not about one man, and thus why they care about what current and future customers say. Same for SVI, who has as big if not bigger of a backlog.

 

 

Look at United Airlines, even though alot of people have no choice but to fly, how much negative publicity did breaking a guy's guitar do for them?

 

If you knew you had 1 year to live, would you care what people think of you? Probably not. If you knew your company and legacy were going to be around for generations? I bet your outlook would change. This is how I see Ed Brown. If he really intends to continue his company, he really ought to start paying attention to how he treats these internet bloggers.

 

 

Damn, just shy of 11.5 Million hits, no matter what, you can't argue that the internet doesn't have a huge reach.

[reloaderguy 30]

Not for Nuthin', but who the hell has 40 minutes to look at this latest video clip on this thread??!!

 

Other than watching a couple 3-4 minute clips once in a great while, I don't have the time to watch Youtube crap. And I certainly don't go looking for it. If I want to find-out about something, I visit that company's web site, I don't go looking for BS Schmuck "Experts" doing videos or writing reviews. I ask my friends what they use & what they think. Maybe it's just a generational thing, I'm not sure. I never read a review to buy a gun, a car, rent an apartment for my son, buy a camera system, rent a U-Haul trailer, go to the movies, the list goes on and on! Somehow I got-by?

 

Reviews that are credible are getting pushed aside on places like Google by the number of views from weenie-cams, just because internet-addicted A-holes have to click on the latest Train Wreck! When I can't even trust a Restaurant review anymore just because the amateur "reviewer" didn't get comp'd a free dessert and gets all pissy, the value of the review process itself comes into question! I can't tell you how many times I read with disdain about some of my favorite places to chow-down where this very problem occurs resulting in a bad review for no good reason at all! I go to the same place and experience great food, nice wine, beautiful presentation all combined with attentive, but not "in yer face" service. Meanwhile the "reviewer" is pissing & moaning about price since they're not used to being in a nice establishment.

 

Bottom line: I don't waste my time yearning to ascertain what a complete stranger, that's doing nuthin' more than pimping his own web site, wants me to think! I'm not that adicted!

 

So, boys & girls, what I the Luddite have done is renew my subscription to NJ Monthly, so I can keep up with reviews given by PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISTS. In the 40 minutes that one A-hole wants me to watch his pimped product commercial on Youtube, I can scan my entire magazine, read several reviews on multiple restaurants, use bookmarks in the magazine and take notes on where I may want to go visit (and spend my money) in the future.

 

-30-

 

So in the 40 min video I posted about Angus Hobdell talking about CZ products to the media you call him a Schmuck. Are you serious! I own and shoot many CZ'S and I learned a lot about their new products. I have worked in the media for some 35 years and I can without a doubt say that Professional Journalists are the dumbest and least informed people on the planet! In fact I am suprised that you even own a computer and don't just buy and read a newspaper everyday!

[hd2000fxdl 422]

. I have worked in the media for some 35 years and I can without a doubt say that Professional Journalists are the dumbest and least informed people on the planet!

 

So,,,, What's ya sayin???

 

Sorry man I had to..

[Smokin .50 1,907]

So in the 40 min video I posted about Angus Hobdell talking about CZ products to the media you call him a Schmuck. Are you serious! I own and shoot many CZ'S and I learned a lot about their new products. I have worked in the media for some 35 years and I can without a doubt say that Professional Journalists are the dumbest and least informed people on the planet! In fact I am suprised that you even own a computer and don't just buy and read a newspaper everyday!

 

Don't be so fast to get your panties in a twist! Please let me explain:

 

I NEVER compared Angus to Tom, you did! Angus is a well-known Shooter of extraordinary capability. A CZ in his hands is like dining at a 5-star restaurant! Tom is a cry-baby weenie out to pimp his own youtube BS! HUGE difference and NO comparison! IF I ever lusted for CZ's I'd make him (Angus) a FB friend and read everything he ever thought! Then I'd hit-up all of my friends on this forum that own CZ (Harry, Vlad?, others) so I could shoot their guns & talk to them about parts, service, reliability and all the usual BS. I'm a "hands-on" kinda guy, NOT a 40 minute internet video watcher! I merely stated that I don't watch 40 minute long internet videos. On ANYTHING! Politics, porn, anything!

 

The Schmuck comment was meant for Tom, NOT for the video you posted, so please don't even try to equate the two since that wasn't my intention.

 

Please accept my humble apology. I didn't desire to "put-down" Angus or the CZ guns he uses/reps for.

 

And you're right about some "Journalists", especially the ones that oft times deliberately blurr the differences between semi-auto & class-3 arms.

 

For the record, I don't buy no stinkin' papers either.

 

Have the rest of a nice week!

 

Dave

[Duppie 73]

Not for Nuthin', but who the hell has 40 minutes to look at this latest video clip on this thread??!!

 

Other than watching a couple 3-4 minute clips once in a great while, I don't have the time to watch Youtube crap. And I certainly don't go looking for it. If I want to find-out about something, I visit that company's web site, I don't go looking for BS Schmuck "Experts" doing videos or writing reviews. I ask my friends what they use & what they think. Maybe it's just a generational thing, I'm not sure. I never read a review to buy a gun, a car, rent an apartment for my son, buy a camera system, rent a U-Haul trailer, go to the movies, the list goes on and on! Somehow I got-by?

 

Reviews that are credible are getting pushed aside on places like Google by the number of views from weenie-cams, just because internet-addicted A-holes have to click on the latest Train Wreck! When I can't even trust a Restaurant review anymore just because the amateur "reviewer" didn't get comp'd a free dessert and gets all pissy, the value of the review process itself comes into question! I can't tell you how many times I read with disdain about some of my favorite places to chow-down where this very problem occurs resulting in a bad review for no good reason at all! I go to the same place and experience great food, nice wine, beautiful presentation all combined with attentive, but not "in yer face" service. Meanwhile the "reviewer" is pissing & moaning about price since they're not used to being in a nice establishment.

 

Bottom line: I don't waste my time yearning to ascertain what a complete stranger, that's doing nuthin' more than pimping his own web site, wants me to think! I'm not that adicted!

 

So, boys & girls, what I the Luddite have done is renew my subscription to NJ Monthly, so I can keep up with reviews given by PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISTS. In the 40 minutes that one A-hole wants me to watch his pimped product commercial on Youtube, I can scan my entire magazine, read several reviews on multiple restaurants, use bookmarks in the magazine and take notes on where I may want to go visit (and spend my money) in the future.

 

-30-

FYI...please regard every restaurant review in NJ Monthly with a large grain of salt. I'ts widely known in the industry that to be even mentioned in the magazine you have to be a contributor. Their 100 best was changed recently to our 100 favorite because of that fact. I would venture that the majority of articles are subscription based and biased therefore very suspect and can hardly be considered "Professional journalism". Personally I would seek a better example to illustrate my point.

[autoxnyc 4]

When I buy a gun, I care about the performance of the gun and customer service. I don't care what kind of a person the owner of the company is or if the rep of the company is polite at a convention.

 

Ed Brown makes great products and I had nothing but good things to say about their customer service. If the owner is rude it might hurt him/her in some ways but given the demand far exceeds what he can supply I don't think he really needs to be nice. Just look at some of our local ranges

[Smokin .50 1,907]

FYI...please regard every restaurant review in NJ Monthly with a large grain of salt. I'ts widely known in the industry that to be even mentioned in the magazine you have to be a contributor. Their 100 best was changed recently to our 100 favorite because of that fact. I would venture that the majority of articles are subscription based and biased therefore very suspect and can hardly be considered "Professional journalism". Personally I would seek a better example to illustrate my point.

 

Your point is taken, however in recent issues I have seen some places reviewed that haven't been advertisers. I've also read reviews about so-so service and lousy desserts from places that do advertise, along with constructive criticism on how to improve service. And NJ Monthly's annual Reader's Choice lists restaurants that their readership hangs-out in, be they advertisers or not.

 

Perhaps I could have used a better example to illustrate my point. Here's one that comes to mind: We all know that the NY Times hires "Professional Journalists". Some of them commit (alleged) treason against the USA and we have to just put up with it. I put Tom in that same category, merely someone I have to put up with--until I change the channel, lol!

 

I will be watching NJ Monthly to make sure that they don't turn into a shill for their advertisers. Every once in a while Gun magazines have been known to do that...

[Duppie 73]

Your point is taken, however in recent issues I have seen some places reviewed that haven't been advertisers. I've also read reviews about so-so service and lousy desserts from places that do advertise, along with constructive criticism on how to improve service. And NJ Monthly's annual Reader's Choice lists restaurants that their readership hangs-out in, be they advertisers or not.

 

Perhaps I could have used a better example to illustrate my point. Here's one that comes to mind: We all know that the NY Times hires "Professional Journalists". Some of them commit (alleged) treason against the USA and we have to just put up with it. I put Tom in that same category, merely someone I have to put up with--until I change the channel, lol!

 

I will be watching NJ Monthly to make sure that they don't turn into a shill for their advertisers. Every once in a while Gun magazines have been known to do that...

The reason NJ monthly and their restaurant and businesses reviews became suspect was because their sales staff was named along with others in a industry article about a lawsuit brought against the website Yelp, who is alleged to have offered top billing and the burying of negitive reviews in exchange for ad and membership dollars.When a business would decline their hard sell then the reviews would become less favorable. NJ Monthly is considered by most to be a slick,glossy version of your town's ad trader.By the by, their reader's choice is also awarded several votes calculated by their annual membership,so the business owners have in fact several votes as readers.

 

As for accurate and inciteful restaurant reviews try Chowhound instead.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Thanks for the lead, I'll look them up (Chowhound). Didn't know about the lawsuit, but I did get a bad "feeling" about Yelp since one of our favorites that always really good got a so-so review......

[TCinJ 7]

I always take intarweb reviews with a large grain of salt.

 

What I look for is a pattern of bad or good behavior. For example, when deciding whether to buy a Marlin 60 or a Ruger 10/22, I chose the Marlin knowing that their quality is a little spotty but overall it is a great rifle and a lot less money. I had to call Marlin to have them send a replacement front sight because it looked like a gorilla pounded it in with a sledge hammer.

 

This is fine for a mass produced, relatively inexpensive item. If I were buying a custom firearm from a small manufacturer like Ed Brown, I'd like to know that the owner of the company was a nice guy along with knowing it was a quality item. The firearms education weenie isn't the only one reporting that Ed Brown is a bit of a douche. This is a pattern, and even though he makes a great quality product, I would rather buy from someone that has BOTH a reputation for being a nice person AND making a great product.

 

That's just my personal preference. Some people don't shive a git if the owner is a douche, and that's fine too. It isn't worth arguing over. I'm pretty sure that everyone here agrees with each other far more than we disagree with each other on many things. So let's all shake hands and agree to disagree. I hate to see people argue over silly things like this. We need to put our time and energy fighting the anti-gun weenies, not each other!