“Papers Please.”

[TheDon 3]

Are we responsible for keeping the PTP Handgun & Form of Registration after the sale is complete?

 

I have purchased 4 handguns in NJ and each time was told that I needed to keep the pink copy of the registration form in a safe and that I need to carry a photocopy in my handgun case in case I have an encounter with LEO.

 

Is this just another example of the disinformation that the NJSP perpetrates on FFL’s or is this something we are actually supposed to do?

[LorenzoS 100]

Obviously a good idea to retain paperwork but there is absolutely no regulation requiring you keep it with you while transporting.

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

Yep, I agree with the above.

 

You are NOT required to carry any papers with a handgun!

 

Although, it sure could make life easier if you did have an encounter.

[Old School 611]

OK I'm a minimalist and don't like to do anything I'm not required to do.

 

I think we all agree that there is no need to carry a copy of your P2P with your firearm.

 

But because we have a more vested interest, we at times, know the law better than some LEO's.

 

There was a time that I transported on 1911 alot and kept it in an alternate residence.

 

I took a copy of my P2P, shrunk it down, folded it up and placed it under the left grip.

 

Just a little insurance and maybe it would save me some time someday.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Are we responsible for keeping the PTP Handgun & Form of Registration after the sale is complete?

 

I have purchased 4 handguns in NJ and each time was told that I needed to keep the pink copy of the registration form in a safe and that I need to carry a photocopy in my handgun case in case I have an encounter with LEO.

 

Is this just another example of the disinformation that the NJSP perpetrates on FFL’s or is this something we are actually supposed to do?

 

 

No, it's an example of you being misinformed . There's no requirement to carry that form with you. Some do, which is their prerogative, there's no law to do so.

[this_is_nascar 162]

OK I'm a minimalist and don't like to do anything I'm not required to do.

 

I think we all agree that there is no need to carry a copy of your P2P with your firearm.

 

But because we have a more vested interest, we at times, know the law better than some LEO's.

 

There was a time that I transported on 1911 alot and kept it in an alternate residence.

 

I took a copy of my P2P, shrunk it down, folded it up and placed it under the left grip.

 

Just a little insurance and maybe it would save me some time someday.

 

 

I fully agree with this, although I don't. I keep thinking I should, but I forget to copy the form(s) and place them in my bag.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

 

I have purchased 4 handguns in NJ and each time was told that I needed to keep the pink copy of the registration form in a safe and that I need to carry a photocopy in my handgun case in case I have an encounter with LEO.

 

 

 

Wise advice to heed.......

 

.....especially when traveling out of state.....ask me how I know......

[BlueLineFish 615]

I never carry any documents for my weapons when I travel.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

I never carry any documents for my weapons when I travel.

 

Yeah but you're LEO so all you gotta do is flash your badge

[Greydaddy 2]

"I have purchased 4 handguns in NJ and each time was told that I needed to keep the pink copy of the registration form in a safe and that I need to carry a photocopy in my handgun case in case I have an encounter with LEO."

 

I've never been told that, and I don't even know if I could find some of the pink copies!

[this_is_nascar 162]

Are we responsible for keeping the PTP Handgun & Form of Registration after the sale is complete?

 

I have purchased 4 handguns in NJ and each time was told that I needed to keep the pink copy of the registration form in a safe and that I need to carry a photocopy in my handgun case in case I have an encounter with LEO.

 

Is this just another example of the disinformation that the NJSP perpetrates on FFL’s or is this something we are actually supposed to do?

 

 

That means you were misinformed (4) times, that's all . You do not NEED to carry the forms with you, as been mentioned several times. Many do, to save on hassles down the road. Do not confuse laws with advice from a dealer/FFl.

[Arbelest 29]

Wise advice to heed.......

 

.....especially when traveling out of state.....ask me how I know......

 

Story time!

[TheDon 3]

What are you guys picking on me for? We all know that the NJSP (as in "the NJSP" not an affront to any particular NJSP trooper) tell FFLs things that are not accurate about AK47's, HP ammo, flash suppressors, gun safes, etc. I was just wondering if this might be more of the same because I could not find anything in the law to support it and I could not imagine how having a copy of your PTP would matter in an encounter with a LEO.

 

So help me understand this hypothetical:

I am driving to the range, stopped at a light, and I get rear-ended. My truck is not drivable so the police show up to have it towed. I have a bed full of targets, range gear, rifles, and pistols. Am I going to be asked to produce proof that I had a PTP when I purchased the pistols?

[bry@n 195]

I have never carried a copy of my ppp with me while I had the gun on me for any reason. It's not required, so I don't carry one.

[this_is_nascar 162]

What are you guys picking on me for? We all know that the NJSP (as in "the NJSP" not an affront to any particular NJSP trooper) tell FFLs things that are not accurate about AK47's, HP ammo, flash suppressors, gun safes, etc. I was just wondering if this might be more of the same because I could not find anything in the law to support it and I could not imagine how having a copy of your PTP would matter in an encounter with a LEO.

 

So help me understand this hypothetical:

I am driving to the range, stopped at a light, and I get rear-ended. My truck is not drivable so the police show up to have it towed. I have a bed full of targets, range gear, rifles, and pistols. Am I going to be asked to produce proof that I had a PTP when I purchased the pistols?

 

 

Innocent until proven guilty, I think is the term. Let them prove that you don't own them. Seriously, if you want to carry copies of your completed P2P's, by all means do. All I'm saying is that you're not required to do so by NJ law. It's as simple as that. Any Dealer or FFL telling you that you MUST carry them with you, doesn't have a clue and shouldn't be in that line of work. I do know that Dealers/FFLs that I've been to will SUGGEST that you carry them, which is a fine suggestion. Just don't spread false information telling people that these papers must be carried. Just sayin'.........................

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

Innocent until proven guilty, I think is the term.

 

Actually, since firearms are all illegal in NJ except under certain exemptions, the term is guilty until proven innocent. Therfore, I carry the papers so I can try and prove it roadside versus in court. If it gives me a 1% better chance of saving the cop car ride and legal fees then I'm all in. Not required but...

[njpilot 671]

Innocent until proven guilty, I think is the term. Let them prove that you don't own them. Seriously, if you want to carry copies of your completed P2P's, by all means do. All I'm saying is that you're not required to do so by NJ law. It's as simple as that. Any Dealer or FFL telling you that you MUST carry them with you, doesn't have a clue and shouldn't be in that line of work. I do know that Dealers/FFLs that I've been to will SUGGEST that you carry them, which is a fine suggestion. Just don't spread false information telling people that these papers must be carried. Just sayin'.........................

 

The OB wasn't telling people they must be carried, he said he was told so and was asking for an opinion here.

 

Why do you have to always be an abrasive, thinks he knows-it-all A-hole to people? Jeez.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Actually, since firearms are all illegal in NJ except under certain exemptions, the term is guilty until proven innocent. Therfore, I carry the papers so I can try and prove it roadside versus in court. If it gives me a 1% better chance of saving the cop car ride and legal fees then I'm all in. Not required but...

 

 

Good points.

[Handyman 5,682]

This answers a question that I asked in another thread. If I am interpreting the above correctly, since we are not required to carry the paperwork, an officer should have basically no expectation that a citizen will be able to prove that a weapon they have in their vehicle actually belongs to them.

 

There are some LEOs on here - what would you do if someone has an FID but something seems fishy? Can you get on the horn to the NJSP and get some kind of serial number lookup in anything close to a timely fashion? Big brother makes us send in the paperwork - is there a database somehwere that puts it to use?

[this_is_nascar 162]

The OB wasn't telling people they must be carried, he said he was told so and was asking for an opinion here.

 

Why do you have to always be an abrasive, thinks he knows-it-all A-hole to people? Jeez.

 

 

I actually thought I was getting better with my so-called *sshole personality. "Always" is like the word "Never". It's a strong word and paints you into a corner when using them. I provided an opinion, as well as fact. I thought that's what this was all about. Also, I was generalizing when asking that false info was being spread. I didn't mean it to be focused on the poster, although after reading it again, I could see how it could be interpreted that way.

[Handyman 5,682]

Actually, since firearms are all illegal in NJ except under certain exemptions, the term is guilty until proven innocent. Therfore, I carry the papers so I can try and prove it roadside versus in court. If it gives me a 1% better chance of saving the cop car ride and legal fees then I'm all in. Not required but...

 

This would be an interesting test case. A cop wrongly arrests you for weapons possession and seizes your firearms, only to later discover the whole thing was an error. A good attorney could probably have a field day with something like this. The only thing wrong with suing the nuts off a town is that innocent people's taxes go up.

[Sigman 41]

What are you guys picking on me for? We all know that the NJSP (as in "the NJSP" not an affront to any particular NJSP trooper) tell FFLs things that are not accurate about AK47's, HP ammo, flash suppressors, gun safes, etc. I was just wondering if this might be more of the same because I could not find anything in the law to support it and I could not imagine how having a copy of your PTP would matter in an encounter with a LEO.

 

So help me understand this hypothetical:

I am driving to the range, stopped at a light, and I get rear-ended. My truck is not drivable so the police show up to have it towed. I have a bed full of targets, range gear, rifles, and pistols. Am I going to be asked to produce proof that I had a PTP when I purchased the pistols?

 

I don't think it's necessary to carry paperwork. It's a permit to purchase, not own. If you legally purchased a gun in a state that doesn't require paperwork, you won't have any to show. As long as you're not doing anything illegal, (and I don't mean traffic violation), and not restricted under NJ law not to own a firearm, you should be OK.

 

Even if a check was done on the pistol, it will show up as you being the owner. I think people get to uptight about carrying paperwork. If you get locked up for this, there's probably something else going on. Police can't arrest or detain you for no paperwork. I believe your rights would be violated at this point and a law suit would follow.

 

I don't carry paperwork for pistols. I normally have my range pass and sometimes my FID card.

[Duppie 73]

Innocent until proven guilty, I think is the term. Let them prove that you don't own them. Seriously, if you want to carry copies of your completed P2P's, by all means do. All I'm saying is that you're not required to do so by NJ law. It's as simple as that. Any Dealer or FFL telling you that you MUST carry them with you, doesn't have a clue and shouldn't be in that line of work. I do know that Dealers/FFLs that I've been to will SUGGEST that you carry them, which is a fine suggestion. Just don't spread false information telling people that these papers must be carried. Just sayin'.........................

Again, a perfect example of how misunderstandings start and escalate...The OP never stated the premise as fact,indeed the OP was asking for an educated opinion. Your comprehension yet again is sorely lacking.

[this_is_nascar 162]

Again, a perfect example of how misunderstandings start and escalate...The OP never stated the premise as fact,indeed the OP was asking for an educated opinion. Your comprehension yet again is sorely lacking.

 

 

Yep. Thanks for being the 2nd or 3rd to point that out to me.

[njpilot 671]

I actually thought I was getting better with my so-called *sshole personality. "Always" is like the word "Never". It's a strong word and paints you into a corner when using them. I provided an opinion, as well as fact. I thought that's what this was all about. Also, I was generalizing when asking that false info was being spread. I didn't mean it to be focused on the poster, although after reading it again, I could see how it could be interpreted that way.

 

You are correct, maybe I should have said "often" or "frequently" instead of "always".

 

"I didn't mean it to be focused on the poster, although after reading it again, I could see how it could be interpreted that way."

 

Thanks for conceding to the point here, just pointing out it doesn't need to be addressed in such a way.

 

Have a good day.

[this_is_nascar 162]

You are correct, maybe I should have said "often" or "frequently" instead of "always".

 

"I didn't mean it to be focused on the poster, although after reading it again, I could see how it could be interpreted that way."

 

Thanks for conceding to the point here, just pointing out it doesn't need to be addressed in such a way.

 

Have a good day.

 

 

Thanks. You too.

[MrSurfboard 1]

I would just make sure you have you FID card with you when you transport. FYI all your NJ handgun purchases are searchable by any NJ Police Dept in the state computer system. If there was ever a question, it could be cleared up in 5 minutes.

[Duppie 73]

I would just make sure you have you FID card with you when you transport. FYI all your NJ handgun purchases are searchable by any NJ Police Dept in the state computer system. If there was ever a question, it could be cleared up in 5 minutes.

I was under the impression from reading a similar tread not too long ago that one of our LEO members remarked that not all NJ forces have access to that information and even the ones that did would have to log into several peripheral sites in order to bring it up.Perhaps someone on the job can clarify?

[Handyman 5,682]

I was under the impression from reading a similar tread not too long ago that one of our LEO members remarked that not all NJ forces have access to that information and even the ones that did would have to log into several peripheral sites in order to bring it up.Perhaps someone on the job can clarify?

 

For some reason, when I envision the state filing system, I picture someone rummaging through boxes of index cards. Lots of boxes. Maybe even like the closing warehouse scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark...

 

Is this stuff part of the public record? That is, if someone makes an Open Public Records Act (OPRA) request to the state, can they determine what firearm(s) I own?

[Duppie 73]

For some reason, when I envision the state filing system, I picture someone rummaging through boxes of index cards. Lots of boxes. Maybe even like the closing warehouse scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark...

 

Is this stuff part of the public record? That is, if someone makes an Open Public Records Act (OPRA) request to the state, can they determine what firearm(s) I own?

The Pistol purchase permit is basically a de facto gun registration in my mind and I'm sure those records are readily accessible,I'm just not sure how accessible by a patrolman in a cruiser.