Another step closer to a police state

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Yeah getting pulled over for speeding by a hummer and having an m4 in your face for speeding for speeding sounds great. Btw to the cops on here. Remember when budgets get crunched soldiers are cheaper then cops

 

http://mobile.philly.com/news/?wss=/philly/news/nation_world/&id=163368916

 

 

 

CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. - The Marine Corps has created its first law enforcement battalions - a lean, specialized force of military police officers that it hopes can quickly deploy worldwide to help investigate crimes from terrorism to drug trafficking and train fledgling security forces in allied nations.

 

The Corps activated three such battalions last month. Each is made up of roughly 500 military police officers and dozens of dogs. The Marine Corps has had police battalions off and on since World War II but they were primarily focused on providing security, such as accompanying fuel convoys or guarding generals on visits to dangerous areas, said Maj. Jan Durham, commander of the 1st Law Enforcement Battalion at Camp Pendleton.

 

The idea behind the law enforcement battalions is to consolidate the military police and capitalize on their investigative skills and police training, he said. The new additions come as every branch in the military is trying to show its flexibility and resourcefulness amid defense cuts.

 

Marines have been increasingly taking on the role of street cop along with their combat duties over the last decade in Iraq and Afghanistan, where they have been in charge of training both countries' security forces. Those skills now can be used as a permanent part of the Marine Corps, Durham said.

 

The war on terrorism has also taught troops the importance of learning how to gather intelligence, secure evidence, and assist local authorities in building cases against criminal networks. Troops have gotten better at combing raid sites for clues to track insurgents.

 

They also have changed their approach, realizing that marching into towns to show force alienates communities. Instead, they are being taught to fan out with interpreters to strike up conversations with truck drivers, money exchangers, cellphone sellers, and others. The rapport-building can net valuable information that could even alert troops about potential attacks.

 

But no group of Marines is better at that kind of work than the Corps' military police, who graduate from academies just like civilian cops, Durham said. He said the image of military police patrolling base to ticket Marines for speeding or drinking has limited their use in the Corps. He hopes the creation of the battalions will change that, although analysts say only the future will tell whether the move is more than just a rebranding of what already existed within the Corps.

 

The battalions will be able to help control civil disturbances, handle detainees, carry out forensic work, and use biometrics to identify suspects. Durham said they could assist local authorities in allied countries in securing crime scenes and building cases so criminals don't end up back out on the streets because of mistakes.

 

"Over the past 11 years of combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, some lessons learned painfully, there has been a growing appreciation and a demand for, on the part of the warfighter, the unique skills and capabilities that MPs bring," Durham said.

 

Durham said the Marine Corps plans to show off its new battalions in Miami this month at a conference put on by the Southern Command.

 

 

[GRIZ 3,369]

Where do you get that you're going to be pulled over for speeding by Marines, other than a military installation, out of this article? The !rmy has had MP brigades for at least the last 50 years that I have personal knowledge of. Several of them and each is 5 or 6 battalions. The USMC being a smaller service is organizing their MPs into battalions, a smaller unit. There is nothing in this article indicating Marine MPs are going to do anything more than Army MPs and Air Force Security Police have been doing for years. Army CID, Air Force OSI, and Navy NCIS has worked with civilian LE agencies for years when military personnel have been involved in crime. The Posse Comitatus Act forbids active duty military to be used in an active civilian LE role.

 

What's with the btw to all the cops here? Why the negative attitude towards cops?

 

[BlueLineFish 615]

Send me into Camden. Since they won't hire more cops for that hellhole. They can work wth the police that are already there

[Dr Bocci 0]

I dont think its a negative attitude towards cops. I think the op is just trying say that sometimes the LE community acts a knee-jerk reaction whenever a comment involving an LE is made, just as you seem to have done.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I'm not anti cop at all. I just think we are heading towards cops being replaced by soldiers.

[Duppie 73]

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I read this the same way you do Griz. I don't get the premace for the thread either.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Do you want marines patrolling the streets?

[voyager9 3,434]

The article doesn't mention using these battalions domestically. All mention is to deploy them to 'allied countries' to provide security for our personnel and to help train local authorities.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

That's how it starts. They sneak it in little by little.

[Scott204 1]

oh no, gotta find my tin foil hat!!!

[bhunted 887]

Partial Definition: Martial law is the imposition of military rule by military authorities over designated regions on an emergency basis—(usually) only temporary—when the civilian government or civilian authorities fail to function effectively (e.g., maintain order and security, and provide essential services), when there are extensive riots and protests, or when the disobedience of the law becomes widespread.

 

They need to bring it in for some cases and I'm for it. But not everywhere. Put them in areas like Paterson, Camden, etc.... They couldn't clean up these areas riki-tik! I'd say that's an emergency for a long time.

Awhile ago, I was in Paterson HQ dropping off a prisoner. There was a young lady in there pouring her heart out to the desk Sgt to help her get back into her home because drug dealers took over her front steps. She could not get back in easily. The Sgt told her we can't do anything, we are spread too thin. But they tried numerous times. By time they got there, they'd disperse, etc. Or where arrested only to be let out. So can we use the ML word? Why not? Clean the shit out of these cities. Give them full capabilities to enforce the law just long enough to make it sound. These fookers may not like the idea of having an M16 shoved down their throats with authority to shoot on sight if not obeyed. We've let these cities go too long. We have no way to fix them without proper funding and forces. So the idea of, "Step into my city and be prepared for war", sounds like a great idea. They move to out lying areas? Follow the pukes till captured. There are plenty of room for them too. Take some of these empty buildings that are in ruins, put some high fences around them with razor wire and let them rot... IMHO -

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Tin foil hat? you need an armadillo shell they work a lot better and are way more comftable.

 

Also that idea sounds great but won't happen. Those reverends will cry you only pick on the black neighborhoods then they will have to patrol all areas so it's fair. Then that will lead to the average law abiding citizen always getting the shaft because they know we will actually pay our fines.

[joshroz2 4]

Since when is this a new thing? MP have been patrolling bases as LE and keeping order since there has been an army. That's why its called Military Police.

 

This is just a plan to update the Marine MP's to a group that can effectively operate in the enviroments we have seen in the last ten years of war.

 

You know whats really scary? The Military has a judicial system too. Maybe you'll be sentenced to death for that speeding ticket you got.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Sentenced? You forgot the ndaa they can just pop you on the side of the road.

[joshroz2 4]

 

[VMI_Marine 0]

Yeah getting pulled over for speeding by a hummer and having an m4 in your face for speeding for speeding sounds great. Btw to the cops on here. Remember when budgets get crunched soldiers are cheaper then cops

 

Do you want marines patrolling the streets?

 

That's how it starts. They sneak it in little by little.

 

Sentenced? You forgot the ndaa they can just pop you on the side of the road.

 

Surely you're not serious with any of this. We had military police battalions back before they re-organized the Marine Logistics Groups, as another poster pointed out the Army has had Military Police brigades for quite some time as well. When they re-organized the MLGs, they split the MPs up among the Combat Logistics Battalions. However, in the past ten years of counterinsurgency operations, one of the things that has been in woefully short supply overseas is expertise in policing and crime scene analysis. These things are, unfortunately, very necessary when conducting duration counterinsurgency operations. For that very reason, every Marine infantry battalion deploys with a Law Enforcement Professional, usually a retired LEO of some sort who is contracted to provide law enforcement expertise. The Marine Corps is simply trying to institutionalize some of the lessons we've learned, painfully, over the past ten years. They're called Law Enforcement Battalions because they now include much more than just run-of-the-mill Military Police, they've been given additional assets to help in intelligence gathering and analysis. I'm sure all of that sounds ominous to a conspiracy nut, but nothing has changed with respect to employment of the military in domestic law enforcement. It's not even a subject we regularly discuss in our Professional Military Education - we've got way too much crap to worry about overseas. Particularly the Marine Corps, which is usually the expeditionary force of choice for small overseas contingency operations.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I'm fine with mp's as long as they stay on bases. I just don't think they will stop there.

[Adam 6]

NDAA...

[PeteF 1,044]

To tell the truth I'd rather deal with Marine MPs than some of the LEOs I have met.

The Marine MPs I have dealt with are professional, courteous and don't sweat small stuff.

I have never met a "respect my authority" MP.

[A-Tech 8]

I don't understand why the op thinks MP's would be doing anything more than policing military. They are not local LE and, report the Fed gov. The only time that could happen is under martial law. I agree on the tin foil hat. I think you may have either misunderstood the intention of the article, or truly believe that the military will take over local LE. More likely than that is the national guard assuming command.

[NJJim 37]

Here's a thought from someone with better word skills than I.

 

Pay attention to the first four sentences.

 

Essential Liberty

 

"Freedom is seldom destroyed all at once. More often it is eroded, bit by bit, until it is gone. This can happen so gradually that there is no sudden change that would alert people to the danger. By the time everybody realizes what has happened, it can be too late, because their freedom is gone. ... One of the tricks of professional magicians is to distract the audience's attention from what they are doing while they are creating an illusion of magic. Pious talk about 'giving back' distracts our attention from the cold fact that politicians are taking away more and more of our money and our freedom. Even the envy that politicians stir up against 'the rich' is highly focused on those particular high income-earners whose decisions the politicians want to take over. Others in sports or entertainment can make far more money than the highest paid corporate executive, but there is no way that politicians can take over the roles of Roger Federer or Oprah Winfrey, so highly paid sports stars or entertainers are never accused of 'greed.' If we are so easily distracted by self-serving political rhetoric, we are not only going to see our money, but our freedom, increasingly taken away from us by slick-talking politicians, including our current slick-talker-in-chief in the White House." --economist Thomas Sowell

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Exactly. It's just another step in that direction. As I stated in the title.

[Soju 153]

A couple things.

 

1. This is nothing new. The article even said that they have had these type of units since WWII.

 

2. I am well aware of all the things that are going on that are chipping away at our civil liberties. I am well aware of the things that are leading us more and more in the directions of a police state. This however, is not one of them.

 

3. As mentioned, AD military are not allowed to act in a civilian type police capacity within the US, not including military bases and such.

 

4. A much more relevant thing would be the role of National Guard units from around the country in LA after Katrina. Some of the stuff that went on there is like what you are talking about.

[GRIZ 3,369]

I dont think its a negative attitude towards cops. I think the op is just trying say that sometimes the LE community acts a knee-jerk reaction whenever a comment involving an LE is made, just as you seem to have done.

 

Knee jerk? BTW, how about all those union workers in the building trades who have priced themselves out of jobs so companies are bringing non-union labor in from out of state or forcing industries who want to expand to move to Mexico where they don't have to deal with any unions either in the construction of their facilities or work force.

 

 

That's how it starts. They sneak it in little by little.

 

My first experience I can remember in LE with using military resources is calling in EOD from Ft Monmouth for a suspected bomb. Most smaller police departments have no bomb squads and military EOD will assist.

 

I went to FBI SWAT school at Camp Pendleton back in 1979. It was taught by the FBI but we used USMC facilities, resources, and personnel to assist in the training. If they're moving in little by little there haven't gone far in 33 years.

 

I've been to other LE courses and military courses that LE application at Ft Dix, Indiantown Gap, Ft Benning, and the Coast Guard training facility in Yorktown, VA. I don't see the military has made any steps toward taking over civilian law enforcement. The military has gotten funding to provide training and services to LE agencies for years. The Armed Forces give assistance to detection of drug smuggling using assets that would break the bank of most le agencies. This is done without deviating from their primary mission.

 

Please give an example of how they've been "sneaking" in.

 

 

Tin foil hat? you need an armadillo shell they work a lot better and are way more comftable.

 

Also that idea sounds great but won't happen. Those reverends will cry you only pick on the black neighborhoods then they will have to patrol all areas so it's fair. Then that will lead to the average law abiding citizen always getting the shaft because they know we will actually pay our fines.

 

So you're all for starting martial law in black neighborhoods but not white? I don't know the crowd you hang with. As for myself and the people I hang with the only fines we might pay is a parking ticket every few years.

 

 

Sentenced? You forgot the ndaa they can just pop you on the side of the road.

 

If you are referring to the National Defense Authorization Act (which has been around for years) can you please direct me to the section that authorizes the military to "pop" you on the side of the road? Please explain the context you are using "pop" stop, arrest, execution or whatever.

 

If this is how you really feel I don't think your tin foil hat or armadillo shell will protect you. You better get inside your pyramid and hang the proper crystals to direct this evil energy away.

[Soju 153]

If anything, this has more relevance.

 

http://news.yahoo.co...-084732106.html

 

The article is about NYPD operating in NJ and being discovered by who I assume to be the landlord or other building manager who was reporting suspicious activity. It is kind of funny really. The NYPD gets busted because someone listened to that clown Janet Napolitano 'see something say something' BS.

 

Of course the NYPD says they weren't operating as police....no kidding.

[checko 180]

oh no, gotta find my tin foil hat!!!

 

+100000.

 

OP what on gods green earth are you talking about? This has nothing to do with domestic civilian policing. In fact it doesn't even hint towards it. Are you just trying to stir the pot and cause a bit of panic?

 

 

[Shawnmoore81 623]

 

 

Knee jerk? BTW, how about all those union workers in the building trades who have priced themselves out of jobs so companies are bringing non-union labor in from out of state or forcing industries who want to expand to move to Mexico where they don't have to deal with any unions either in the construction of their facilities or work force.

 

 

 

 

My first experience I can remember in LE with using military resources is calling in EOD from Ft Monmouth for a suspected bomb. Most smaller police departments have no bomb squads and military EOD will assist.

 

I went to FBI SWAT school at Camp Pendleton back in 1979. It was taught by the FBI but we used USMC facilities, resources, and personnel to assist in the training. If they're moving in little by little there haven't gone far in 33 years.

 

I've been to other LE courses and military courses that LE application at Ft Dix, Indiantown Gap, Ft Benning, and the Coast Guard training facility in Yorktown, VA. I don't see the military has made any steps toward taking over civilian law enforcement. The military has gotten funding to provide training and services to LE agencies for years. The Armed Forces give assistance to detection of drug smuggling using assets that would break the bank of most le agencies. This is done without deviating from their primary mission.

 

Please give an example of how they've been "sneaking" in.

 

 

 

 

So you're all for starting martial law in black neighborhoods but not white? I don't know the crowd you hang with. As for myself and the people I hang with the only fines we might pay is a parking ticket every few years.

 

 

 

 

If you are referring to the National Defense Authorization Act (which has been around for years) can you please direct me to the section that authorizes the military to "pop" you on the side of the road? Please explain the context you are using "pop" stop, arrest, execution or whatever.

 

If this is how you really feel I don't think your tin foil hat or armadillo shell will protect you. You better get inside your pyramid and hang the proper crystals to direct this evil energy away.

 

Police using military training is fine. But military policing isn't. There is a huge difference.

 

As far as the black neighborhoods I'm referring to places like Camden. The same dumb a** people who cried to the media that drug testing for welfare is racist will 100% say minorities are being picked on.

 

As far as the fine comment I've seen first hand this in action. I got a ticket in wildwood during hotrod weekend for doing a burnout. I go to court for it and the guy seen by the judge in front of me was actually there for a crime. His fines were broken down to $5 a month and suspended for 12 years until his other fines which were financed at $5 a month were paid off. I go up there and you would have thought I was a terrorist. He held at me, threatened to take my liscence and wanted every penny of my fine that day. So yeah I do have a chip on my shoulder about that. I use to go to wildwood twice a year for the car show weekend and now I refuse to go. The only thing that got me back in wildwood was the Kenny Chesney concert. I stayed outside of wildwood for that. I've seen a million times people get let go because they can't afford to pay.

 

As for the ndaa read it again.

[db1775 4]

I think the importance of this news is in the context of the times. Several years back, this would not have merited notice. But this story was at the top of the center column on Drudge for two or three full days. It is undeniable that people are starting to take notice about issues relating to privacy, civil liberties, etc, even people who don't yet own guns.

 

Whether or not this is anything other than routine, I don't really see a need to worry about it yet. But as I have repeatedly said, I will never understand the "it CAN'T happen here" mentality.

[NJScott 15]

Years ago, I worked in Long Island, in an area of Hicksville that bordered one of the highest crime areas in Nassau County. It was the height of the crack epidemic and we could watch deals going down from our office windows. But rather than deal with real crime, the NCPD would instead set up seatbelt checkpoints a few blocks away in an upper middle class neighborhood. The only "criminals" I would see getting stopped by the cops were business people commuting to work and moms bringing their kids to school.

 

It was a textbook example of low-risk/high reward law enforcement: they knew the people they were citing were law-abiding types that would pay their fines, and they didn't have to deal with those pesky, armed thugs a mile down the road.