NYPD really do need training

[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

http://m.nypost.com/...g2IyzvA1HP913XI

 

I don't blame the cops. I blame the lack of training. Also, the ridiculous gun laws have once again proved to be ineffective. (I'm assuming the thugs had guns).

 

People need to see that gun laws are not in place to protect the citizens, but to protect the gov't!

[RecessedFilter 222]

For future posts, when you post a link, try and discuss it or share your opinion on it.

 

That's a really sad story though. It makes me think if you were in that position, actually making it out of the store alive and next thing you know your getting shot.

[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

For future posts, when you post a link, try and discuss it or share your opinion on it.

 

That's a really sad story though. It makes me think if you were in that position, actually making it out of the store alive and next thing you know your getting shot.

 

I just read that rule. Will update my OP.

[PeteF 1,044]

All around bad situation. I don't know if it's a case of the cop having his finger on the trigger and having a ND, or it can very simply be a case where the cop thought he was being attacked and defended himself. I guess only time will tell.

[Duppie 73]

10 innocent civilians hurt in recent shootings involving NYPD officers.....I ask you where is the outrage,intense scrutiny,inflammatory rhetoric and grandstanding we're so used to by NYC's mayor and his lackeys?

What does our fine Senator Lautenberg have to say?

[ChrisJM981 924]

The guy bumped into the police officer. I don't think that's the officer's fault. If someone runs out of a robbery and bumps into you, not much time is there to make a friend/foe assessment. Sounds more like a tragic accident.

[alec.mc 180]

Sure, now the cops are a regular sharp shooter, last week the couldn't hit anything.

[bhunted 887]

Kinda hard for a 12lb trigger to go off from a simple bump... Just saying... (shrug)...

(having ugly flashbacks from other similar threads) (oh gawd, when will it all end)... Lol

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

[silverado427 10,778]

10 innocent civilians hurt in recent shootings involving NYPD officers.....I ask you where is the outrage,intense scrutiny,inflammatory rhetoric and grandstanding we're so used to by NYC's mayor and his lackeys?

What does our fine Senator Lautenberg have to say?

lol

[Krdshrk 3,878]

As he ran out, Cuevas stumbled and bumped into a cop who had his gun out, law enforcement sources said.

He was shot dead.

Cops believe the gun accidentally discharged, sources said.

 

With a 12# trigger? WTF. That's horrible trigger discipline if the finger really was on the trigger... And that must have been some bump.....

[BlueLineFish 615]

Again a bad situation. At this point officer has no idea who is bad or good. Someone comes running out and bumps the officer maybe bad trigger discipline and finger on trigger of maybe he mistook it as an assault and the guy going after the gun. Very unfortunate either way. I am sure they will get crucified here regardless before all the facts come out.

[diamondd817 828]

Maybe Bloomberg will ban the cops from having guns too.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Maybe Bloomberg will ban the cops from having guns too.

 

Then I would have to wear a silly hat and old wooden baton like in England...no thanks

[Krdshrk 3,878]

Then I would have to wear a silly hat and old wooden baton like in England...no thanks

 

And a whistle. Don't forget the whistle.

[BlueLineFish 615]

God I hate whistles.

[bhunted 887]

They will only get crucified because once one domino falls, it will not end till there are no more similar stories for awhile OR something bigger and better comes along.

Ever notice when here is no news, that an inch of snow becomes the Nor'Easter of the Century and you'll hear about it for days till we get a beautiful day OR something bigger and better comes along. Fooking journalists. I hate them almost as much as politicians. Blah! Be nice when there is no news and cameras turn to a hot female news reporter in the field... She snaps too, buttons her blouse and says, "Sorry, nothing to report here news desk... Just hanging out smelling the roses".... In my dreams! Hah!

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

[alec.mc 180]

Maybe Bloomberg will ban the cops from having guns too.

 

Thats crazy talk, don't you know a cops life is more important than mine ?

Come on now!

[woodentoe 14]

Serves the guy right for running for his life. <sarcasm off>

 

I'm sure the officer is going to be traumatized by the fact that he shot an innocent person. Details matter, though. And, the narrative that the victim "bumped" into the officer causing an accidental shooting is specious...at least without more details. MMQBing, I'd suggest that the man ran for his life from the store directly at the officers...who were spooked by his action...and one of the officers shot him. Clearly a mistake and some serious red light fever. The perps should be charged with the murder for creating the scenario in question. Whether the officer ND'd or AD'd or intentionally discharged at the victim should also be seriously investigated.

[PeteF 1,044]

Then I would have to wear a silly hat and old wooden baton like in England...no thanks

 

And yell

 

"STOP or I'll yell STOP again"

[diamondd817 828]

 

 

And yell

 

"STOP or I'll yell STOP again"

 

LOL. That's funny right there.

[BarkNBite 15]

When you figure how many NYPD are on the streets and each of them carrying a loaded weapon......well.......I can see the mayors concern now.

[High Exposure 5,671]

http://m.nypost.com/...g2IyzvA1HP913XI

 

I don't blame the cops. I blame the lack of training. Also, the ridiculous gun laws have once again proved to be ineffective. (I'm assuming the thugs had guns).

 

That's interesting... Personally, I blame the assholes that decided to threaten a man and his employee at closing time with a gun (Reports state that the perps were armed with an unloaded .32ACP pistol) and try to take what he has worked for.

 

As far as a lack of training: Click Here http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/39696-lack-of-training-for-police-departments/ for a little insight.

 

Sure, now the cops are a regular sharp shooter, last week the couldn't hit anything.

 

Are you referring to the shooting at the Empire State Building? Those to guys had a 60% hit ratio. Way above the reported average in a violent encounter (including LEO and CCW shootings), with all of their hits in the perp's chest. That's pretty damned good for real world, off the square range shooting at moving meat as opposed to stationary paper or steel that don't shoot back.

 

Kinda hard for a 12lb trigger to go off from a simple bump... Just saying... (shrug)...

(having ugly flashbacks from other similar threads) (oh gawd, when will it all end)... Lol

 

Really? Tell us about all the experience you have with duty guns with 12 pound triggers. Better yet, tell us about the time you carried a gun with a 12lb trigger, on duty, during a hostage job, and were tackled by a suspect fleeing the site.

 

Where do you get the idea that the officer was the recipient of a simple bump? The always truthful and accurate media's report?

 

Thats crazy talk, don't you know a cops life is more important than mine ?

Come on now!

 

What is that supposed to mean? Most cops do the Job out of a sense of duty to their community, a desire to help their fellow citizens. Most that put the uniform on put the public's safety way above their own, running to the sound of gunfire to try to save the lives of others.

 

Again a bad situation. At this point officer has no idea who is bad or good. Someone comes running out and bumps the officer maybe bad trigger discipline and finger on trigger of maybe he mistook it as an assault and the guy going after the gun. Very unfortunate either way. I am sure they will get crucified here regardless before all the facts come out.

 

100% Agreed. 2 men come running out of a store where armed gunmen have taken hostages. One comes out with his hand up over his head running for the cops. Chasing him is another person, hands unseen, about the right age for the perp. Second individual doesn't does not respond to verbal commands, doesn't put his hands up and doesnt stop. Is he making a break for it? Is he chasing the other guy down to kill him? All involved persons, hostages and perps, are suspects until positively identified. Being a suspect makes him an unknown and that makes him a threat. Unfortunately this falls under the heading of being smart around people with guns.

 

And as usual, people will rake the cop through the coals based on the accuracy (or lack thereof) of a media report and a 6 month investigation of his split-second decision.

 

Serves the guy right for running for his life. <sarcasm off> It is a shame that guy didn't follow the directions of the police officers with guns drawn telling him to put his hands up and stop running. There, Fixed that for you.

 

I'm sure the officer is going to be traumatized by the fact that he shot an innocent person. Details matter, though. And, the narrative that the victim "bumped" into the officer causing an accidental shooting is specious...at least without more details. MMQBing, I'd suggest that the man ran for his life from the store directly at the officers...who were spooked by his action...and one of the officers shot him. Clearly a mistake and some serious red light fever. The perps should be charged with the murder for creating the scenario in question. Whether the officer ND'd or AD'd or intentionally discharged at the victim should also be seriously investigated.

 

You are right, details do matter, so please keep in mind that everyone is basing their sequence of events on a media report. The same media that we get pissed at because they always get it wrong when reporting stories we are interested in.

 

I do agree that this needs to be fully investigated and that the perps are ultimately responsible for the young man's death.

 

This is tragic all around.

[High Exposure 5,671]

Here is a Link to a video of the shooting. Scroll to 0:40.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-26345346/security-video-nyc-police-shooting-30534326.html?_esi=1#crsl=%252Fvideo%252Fus-26345346%252Fsecurity-video-nyc-police-shooting-30534326.html

[TK421 2]

Kinda hard for a 12lb trigger to go off from a simple bump... Just saying... (shrug)...

(having ugly flashbacks from other similar threads) (oh gawd, when will it all end)... Lol

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

 

I was thinking the same thing, how do you get a ND from a pistol with a 12lb trigger? I guess they need 25lb rtiggers in NYC now? Perhaps if they require two index fingers to pull the trigger they will be sure what they are shooting at is really a target? LOL

[woodentoe 14]

With all due respect, I was being sarcastic and it didn't need fixing. In doing so, it appears that you are turning the victim into the perp. People who are in fear for their lives do not always act rationally. That goes for victims and cops.

 

I watched the released video from the NYPD on the news. I assume you want an opinion. The officer trained his weapon on the initial victim, fleeing the scene. When followed by the deceased victim, the officer immediately redirected his weapon at the "threat". Since there is no audio, we can only assume when the firearm discharged. It appeared, at least to me, that the victim was on his way to the ground before reaching the officer. The caption on the video that says the officer was "plowed into" is a bit inaccurate, IMHO.

 

On all appearances, this seems to have been an issue of IFF (Identify Friend/Foe) The officer made a split second assessment of the man coming out of the bodega. It was a few milliseconds between acquiring the target and shooting. It turns out, that the officer didn't shoot a bad guy. He shot an innocent victim. I agree that the perps of the robbery are the responsible parties here. But, the Blue Wall of Silence has declared that this was an AD. Was it?

[TK421 2]

Here is a Link to a video of the shooting. Scroll to 0:40.

 

http://news.yahoo.co...g-30534326.html

 

That's sad...

[High Exposure 5,671]

With all due respect, I was being sarcastic and it didn't need fixing. In doing so, it appears that you are turning the victim into the perp. People who are in fear for their lives do not always act rationally. That goes for victims and cops.

 

Not turning the victim into a perp, just pointing out that the victim was a suspect. A suspect that appeared to jump at an Officer that already had another suspect at gunpont.

 

I am not 100% sure, but from the reaction and location that the officer chose to post, it appears as if he may be the first Officer on scene and is unsure of the location of the robbery/barricade.

 

I watched the released video from the NYPD on the news. I assume you want an opinion. The officer trained his weapon on the initial victim, fleeing the scene. When followed by the deceased victim, the officer immediately redirected his weapon at the "threat". Since there is no audio, we can only assume when the firearm discharged. It appeared, at least to me, that the victim was on his way to the ground before reaching the officer. The caption on the video that says the officer was "plowed into" is a bit inaccurate, IMHO.

 

I don't want an opinion. I want people to stop passing judgement on what occured based on a media account and a short B&W video with no frame of reference and no audio.

 

On all appearances, this seems to have been an issue of IFF (Identify Friend/Foe) The officer made a split second assessment of the man coming out of the bodega. It was a few milliseconds between acquiring the target and shooting. It turns out, that the officer didn't shoot a bad guy. He shot an innocent victim. I agree that the perps of the robbery are the responsible parties here. But, the Blue Wall of Silence has declared that this was an AD. Was it?

 

I am going to answer that last query the way I wish a lot of folks would have when talking about this:

 

I was not there, and even if I was I am not the officer involved. Ergo, I don't know what happened, why it happened or how it happened and I won't speculate.

 

He shot an unknown and aggressive threat/suspect that turned out to be an innocent victim. Cops aren't issued crystal balls with their gunbelts.

[woodentoe 14]

If the video isn't meant to offer information and provides no frame of reference, then why did you post it and direct posters to the moment of the shooting?

 

With all due respect, it doesn't much matter whether or not you want an opinion. I'm allowed to have one and I'm allowed to espouse it as I see fit. Just like you are.

 

You say you weren't there but you readily assess the dead innocent man as an aggressive suspect. That sounds like an opinion.

[bhunted 887]

HE, I was being sarcastic.... guess ya didn't get it in the parenthesis part...

 

bhunted, on 07 September 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

 

Kinda hard for a 12lb trigger to go off from a simple bump... Just saying... (shrug)...

(having ugly flashbacks from other similar threads) (oh gawd, when will it all end)... Lol

 

HE said: Really? Tell us about all the experience you have with duty guns with 12 pound triggers. Better yet, tell us about the time you carried a gun with a 12lb trigger, on duty, during a hostage job, and were tackled by a suspect fleeing the site.

 

Where do you get the idea that the officer was the recipient of a simple bump? The always truthful and accurate media's report?

[High Exposure 5,671]

If the video isn't meant to offer information and provides no frame of reference, then why did you post it and direct posters to the moment of the shooting?

 

With all due respect, it doesn't much matter whether or not you want an opinion. I'm allowed to have one and I'm allowed to espouse it as I see fit. Just like you are.

 

You say you weren't there but you readily assess the dead innocent man as an aggressive suspect. That sounds like an opinion.

 

The video is what it is. It is a recording of a specific moment in time from a specific location. There is no frame of reference. We don't know haw long into the incident this occured, what the people in the videos mindset was, what verbal commands were or were not given. I mostly wanted to show that the Officer wasn't simply "Bumped" as reported by the video. He had an unknown suspect run into him, while he had another suspect at gunpoint. I can't tell but it almost looks like he ran right into his pistol.

 

Woodentoe you are 100% correct, you are entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else. When I said I didn't want an opinion, I was answering your statement "I assume you want an opinion". I did not mean to imply that your opinion didn't matter or that you were not entitled to one. My posts were not in solicitation of an opinion on this matter. I apologize if it came off that way. Mea Culpa.

 

When I stated that I wasnt there and was not going to speculate, I meant that I am not going to speculate if it was an ND, an AD, or a purposefully fired shot at someone deemed an immediate threat to the Officer's life.

 

As far as the victim being a "threat", Yes, I believe that the young man that tragically lost his life was an unidentified suspect and should be treated accordingly by the Officer on scene.

 

HE, I was being sarcastic.... guess ya didn't get it in the parenthesis part...

 

bhunted, on 07 September 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

 

Kinda hard for a 12lb trigger to go off from a simple bump... Just saying... (shrug)...

(having ugly flashbacks from other similar threads) (oh gawd, when will it all end)... Lol

 

HE said: Really? Tell us about all the experience you have with duty guns with 12 pound triggers. Better yet, tell us about the time you carried a gun with a 12lb trigger, on duty, during a hostage job, and were tackled by a suspect fleeing the site.

 

Where do you get the idea that the officer was the recipient of a simple bump? The always truthful and accurate media's report?

 

bhunted, you may want to check your sarcasm meter. I believe the battery is dead. Yes, I saw what you wrote in parenthesis. It did not come off as a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain. It came off as a statement of your belief that it is in fact difficult to have an ND or AD with a 12lb trigger.

 

So if that was simply sarcasm, then you do believe it is possible to have an ND with a 12lb trigger?