School shooting in CT

[Zeke 5,504]

Armed guards at every school. Doors locked during operation.

 

 

[matty 810]

At this point, I will wait for real information, like from the CT State Police. Anyone in the media is just jabbering fools at this point, I am not watching any news tonight at all or tomorrow. My 3 little kids will be happy about that, and so will I

[MarkWVU02 47]

A friend of mine, who isn't really a gun guy, brought up an interesting thing. He said its funny people blame the guns but when you look at many of these mass shootings many of the killers were on hardcore anti depressants and he said he's read studies where many of these drugs can cause extreme violence in people. Why is no one blaming big pharma for this?

[Old School 611]

Armed guards at every school. Doors locked during operation.

 

I really don't want to see a bloated increase in our police force but understand your sentiment.

 

Ever wonder why you don't see these tragedies in the inner city? They have metal detectors and security guards.

 

Airline pilots are allowed to be armed. How about an armed, trained volunteer (receiving a stipend) in every school.

 

You have teachers being coaches on stipends...

[raz-0 1,259]

 

What I'm not 100% on is whether or not he was living at his mothers place in any kind of documented capacity(address on his DL, bills, etc). One thing I might be onboard with as far as changes go would be a possible addition to nics that does a "who else lives here" kind of search and does a background check on them(m.health & criminal). But, even just sitting here proposing the idea, it already kind of worries me as I read it back. May just open the flood gate for heavy duty privacy invasion and harassment if its not implemented just right.

 

Already happens for felons in some capacity. I know someone who got delayed a lot because his ex wife had a felony conviction.

[woodentoe 14]

The doors were probably locked. Someone in the office buzzed him in. Mandate that one administrator in the school who is trained and licensed to carry be on premesis when school is in session.

 

To satiate the rabid, create a mechanism for NICS to be run for face to face transfer then require it for all transactions of long and short arms.

 

The hardest part is to improve the mental health system so that the NICS reporting picks up on the loons. Also, since NICS will be required for all transactions, transfer to a person without a NICS who commits a violent crime will be a chargeable offense. So if they can direct trace a straw purchase (like columbine), you're charged as an accomplice.

[Zeke 5,504]

The doors were probably locked. Someone in the office buzzed him in. Mandate that one administrator in the school who is trained and licensed to carry be on premesis when school is in session.

 

 

Recently , I've been reading about burglaries and car chases, etc.if the occur in close proximity to a school it goes on "lockdown". They should always be on lockdown!

 

[bulpup 98]

A friend of mine, who isn't really a gun guy, brought up an interesting thing. He said its funny people blame the guns but when you look at many of these mass shootings many of the killers were on hardcore anti depressants and he said he's read studies where many of these drugs can cause extreme violence in people. Why is no one blaming big pharma for this?

 

 

Pharma has already claimed full responsibility for the decline in violent crime across America and the reduction in mental health care costs by virtue of pills.

 

Anything else is going to cost insurance companies and taxpayers more money. So hush now before someone drops a giant pill on your head.

[djg0770 481]

Armed guards at every school. Doors locked during operation.

 

Doors are already locked during operation. In 05 I was working construction on a school in Green Brook. Cops showed up and tried to gain access to the school other than through the main entrance. The children and teachers ignored them. The chief went ballistic and eventually had the school give his officers keys but if you consider that anyone can get a cop uniform, the school, teachers, and students did the right things.

[djg0770 481]

The doors were probably locked. Someone in the office buzzed him in.

 

Should be treated like a sally port. Buzzed into a safe room where they're isolated and locked in where someone must come and search them before they can enter the facility in any capacity.

[Sigman 41]

I cannot believe this is still on TV, shut it off..Again..

 

I'm with you. I can't stand the misinformation given by the news media and journalists. Half of them don't know what they're talking about and don't have their facts straight. The families are suffering enough. I will not support the media whores who exploit them. The media is about sensationalism, ratings and money.

 

I haven't reviewed 9 pages of posts.

 

Did anyone pick up on the fact these were firearms illegally in the shooters possession?

 

They were registered to his mother who was either a firearms enthusiast or a straw purchaser.

 

We personally have the responsibility to keep firearms out of the hands of noneligible persons.

 

Yes, don't take your crazy cousin to the range.

 

For all we know, the guns could have been secured. He could have threatened his mother with knife, got the guns, then killed her. He would of managed to get what he needed somehow. This was most likely planned.

 

What I'm not 100% on is whether or not he was living at his mothers place in any kind of documented capacity(address on his DL, bills, etc). One thing I might be onboard with as far as changes go would be a possible addition to nics that does a "who else lives here" kind of search and does a background check on them(m.health & criminal). But, even just sitting here proposing the idea, it already kind of worries me as I read it back. May just open the flood gate for heavy duty privacy invasion and harassment if its not implemented just right.

 

Bad idea. I don't need the government having more control over my rights because of psycho's in this world. What ever happened to personal responsibility?

 

It's a shame that God and personal responsibility has been removed from our schools and society in general. It gets worse year after year. The younger people have no idea what it was like being a kid 40 years ago.

[Vlad G 345]

News reports are saying he may have shot out the windows next to the door to get inside.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Armed guards at every school. Doors locked during operation.

 

I work for the Bayonne Board of Education. The lock-down procedure is rediculous.

[Zeke 5,504]

 

 

I work for the Bayonne Board of Education. The lock-down procedure is rediculous.

please explain

[Sigman 41]

Should be treated like a sally port. Buzzed into a safe room where they're isolated and locked in where someone must come and search them before they can enter the facility in any capacity.

 

Dan - do we really need to treat our schools like a prison facility? This is a bandaid for the underlying problem. When I was kid, I went home for lunch and was able to leave at will. Kids are not brought up like we were. Society is degrading year after year. I think we both know where the problem lies.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

please explain

 

I had a thread on here maybe 2 years ago about this very thing. I'm trying to find it.

[bulpup 98]

Can't talk about mental health because there are "privacy issues". A guy from the NY Times actually said that on the radio in relation to this incident. Really? Privacy issues? REALLY? What about the lives of children?

 

You are saying that WE value our Constitutional rights over the lives of children killed by some mad dog that would kill with whatever was at hand? No, WE consider our constitutional right to protect ourselves and loved ones (and those children) FROM assholes like this guy. Take away my Constitutional rights so that we don't have to embarass the guy with the mental issues because WE MIGHT HURT HIS FEELINGS or he might be discriminated against. That's the approach they will take and that's what you have bought into with your post.

 

 

It is a privacy and rights issue through and through. To take guns from or to point a finger at someone and label them as unable to ever posses a firearm before they ever commit a crime is a proccess that is incredibly intrusive and, if found to be wrong, very costly to those that initiate it via lawsuits. However it is not impossible or a bad idea, as long as you are RIGHT, and have the BALLS to do it. See the links in my sig below.

 

But in this case we have heard from the brother that the killer was "mentally defective." This guy was probably already in the system and blocked. The guns were accesible to him, most likely after he killed a family member. That is something that we as owners need to reflect on long and hard.

 

I recently had a co-worker that is not an anti but has no ill will towards those that do, tell me that the week before his son ws born he sold his prized ruger .22 revolver and never wanted to have a gun in the house while his kids were growing up. Gun owners need to have serious thoughts about these things. Should you get rid of a few guns if there is a mentally ill person in your house? Yes could be a very good answer, even if it is within your rights to own one.

[Ten Tenth's 0]

I haven't reviewed 9 pages of posts.

 

Did anyone pick up on the fact these were firearms illegally in the shooters possession?

 

They were registered to his mother who was either a firearms enthusiast or a straw purchaser.

 

We personally have the responsibility to keep firearms out of the hands of noneligible persons.

 

Yes, don't take your crazy cousin to the range.

 

Yes and it wasn't until I read a report from Daily Mail UK after 5pm did I understand. They also pointed out he's mentally disabled.

[Old School 611]

Dan - do we really need to treat our schools like a prison facility? This is a bandaid for the underlying problem. When I was kid, I went home for lunch and was able to leave at will. Kids are not brought up like we were. Society is degrading year after year. I think we both know where the problem lies.

 

In addition to society degrading we have let all the crazies out of institutions because they have rights.

[bulpup 98]

In addition to society degrading we have let all the crazies out of institutions because they have rights.

 

It has more to do with cost. Pills and a boot out the door is said to work. At a fraction of the cost of institutionalizing, no one argues.

[Ten Tenth's 0]

 

Especially since the rifle was found in the car. Only the Glock and Sig 'revolvers' with 30 round clips were used by the shooter.

 

My wife, who is fairly neutral on guns and was also extremely disturbed by this event, said it best: this isn't about guns, it's about people. Some people are messed up and will do evil by any means necessary.

 

I told her that is why I go to the range, and want her to as well: if she is ever in a situation similar, I want her to have every opportunity to protect herself and family.

 

My wife had a similar conversation with me except her prior position was less neutral regarding guns. She voted for Obama despite my pouring of facts and records. She now wants to learn to shoot at a range to defend our kids in a random home invasion scenario.

 

This came as a surprise and I WONDER HOW MANY MORE WOMEN ARE THINKING THE SAME today!?

 

Stats show since 2006 the number of NICS that are women went from 13% to 26%.

 

I am encouraged that our 2nd Amendment rights envisioned by our forefathers will fit in the minds of modern society.

[reduck 0]

 

 

It has more to do with cost. Pills and a boot out the door is said to work. At a fraction of the cost of institutionalizing, no one argues.

 

I rarely get involved in these conversations but feel this needs to be said. I am not generalizing and saying every parent is to blame but

IMO We've lost control of the mentally disturbed by political correctness. Every snowflake is special and deserves to be coddled and considered normal. Every one is a winner and equal. Parents don't parent, they blame others for the behavior of their snowflakes. We've raised the "it's not my fault" generation and it's coming back to bite us in the ass. There is no responsibility taught or practiced.

Our society has degraded and there will be repercussions for some time to come.

Just the same I see and know parents that do an excellent job raising their children. You can see the difference immediately standing in line at any supermarket any day.

 

Meanwhile my heart goes out to all the families suffering through this tragedy.

 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

please explain

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/29346-lock-down-drill/

[MarkWVU02 47]

http://njgunforums.c...ock-down-drill/

 

As a school teacher Ray, lockdown drills scare me. Schools have no chance to defend themselves. We get to call 911 and hope it doesn't take them 15 minutes to get there. A lot of children can die in the time it takes police to respond. If this sort of tragedy occurred at my school I'd definitely be dead because I'd rather die trying to stop the intruder than die hiding in a corner.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Mark, I'm gonna PM you a story that happened Friday morning.

[bulpup 98]

I rarely get involved in these conversations but feel this needs to be said. I am not generalizing and saying every parent is to blame but

IMO We've lost control of the mentally disturbed by political correctness. Every snowflake is special and deserves to be coddled and considered normal. Every one is a winner and equal. Parents don't parent, they blame others for the behavior of their snowflakes. We've raised the "it's not my fault" generation and it's coming back to bite us in the ass. There is no responsibility taught or practiced.

Our society has degraded and there will be repercussions for some time to come.

 

 

How a person is raised by their parents has little to do with the kind of psychosis that lets a person go on a mass killing spree. How the parents cope with Severe and Persistant Mental Illness is better seved by reaching out for help.

 

While everyone agrees that parenting is to blame for kids being impolite and the way kids get their moral compass, severe mental illness is a different catagory.

[Zeke 5,504]

 

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/29346-lock-down-drill/

Thank you Ray.

This reafirms my stand on armed guards at schools.

[Bob2222 317]

 

But in this case we have heard from the brother that the killer was "mentally defective." This guy was probably already in the system and blocked. The guns were accesible to him, most likely after he killed a family member. That is something that we as owners need to reflect on long and hard.

 

I recently had a co-worker that is not an anti but has no ill will towards those that do, tell me that the week before his son ws born he sold his prized ruger .22 revolver and never wanted to have a gun in the house while his kids were growing up. Gun owners need to have serious thoughts about these things. Should you get rid of a few guns if there is a mentally ill person in your house? Yes could be a very good answer, even if it is within your rights to own one.

 

I could be wrong, but at the age of age 20, I don't think that he could have purchased a handgun legally anywhere in the US.

 

The Bushmaster rifle is possible -- but he seems to have been so obviously crazy that a purchase should have raised eyebrows at most gun stores. I doubt it, though. He seems to have been too awkward to have gone through the process, if he wouldn't even sit for his HS yearbook picture. Possibly a "straw purchase" -- but then mom must have been pretty crazy herself to buy guns for a mentally ill kid -- or maybe they had been his dad's.

 

The guy should have been institutionalized because he was dangerous to himself and to others. Obviously. Community mental health care has been a dismal failure for almost 50 years now, as demonstrated by most if not all of the mass murders over the last few years.

 

As for a prized Ruger (or any heirloom) -- why not just disassemble it, give the ammo away, and put a couple of critical components away in a safe deposit box? A nonfunctional firearm with no ammunition is pretty safe. (Just remember where you put all the pieces! My BIL did this when he had young kids -- and then forgot where he hid some of the parts!)

[Luso 6]

This is not true. I lived in CT and had a carry permit in CT, I actually lived 10 minutes from this school.

 

CT requires a NICS check and a 2 week waiting period for the purchase of any longarm. Apparently this kid tried to purchase a longarm just days before the attack

 

http://usnews.nbcnew...ks-answers?lite

 

He was denied.

 

He's also under 21, which means he can't buy a handgun. And to buy a handgun in CT, you need to apply with the state police for the permit to carry concealed, undergo NRA training, be 21 years old, and go through a thorough FBI background check. (it's kind of ironic; in NJ, you can never ever carry, and you have to beg for permission to even be able to BUY a handgun, and then there are restrictions on how many you can get. In CT, if you want to buy any handgun, you are FORCED to first get a license to CONCEAL CARRY it, and once you have that, you can buy as many as you want, without restriction)

 

This kid was not legally getting his hands on guns in any way, shape, or form. He was mentally unstable, underage, and had no permit.

 

Furthermore, this shooting happened in a "gun free school zone"

 

The story is heart wrenching, but what angers me, is every aspect of this story actually points to the fact that the only real legal tragedy is the fact that teachers or principals can not carry. They may have been able to stop this. Instead, the entire conversation will be about how we need more laws and gun control. I want to vomit everytime i see these clips of the president's crocodile tears.

 

The laws that were on the books were actually PERFECT in executing their exact purpose, preventing unstable or underage people from LEGALLY accessing guns.

 

More laws are not the solution.

[MarkWVU02 47]

This was posted on facebook...not sure if it's really Morgan Freeman's thoughts but they're valid...

 

Morgan Freeman's statement about these random shootings....

 

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

 

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

 

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

 

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."