NRA Press Conference 10:45 AM 12/21

[Combat Auto 174]

Have to put armed guards in schools...Obama has armed guards why shouldn't kids who are "forced" to congregate in school (not everyone can afford a private tutor)...As a society, we owe it to the kids that they are SAFE as best as we can reasonably make it...Kids can't protect themselves, society HAS to do it...I am a small gov-guy, but there are no absolutes on this planet...We do need government for (some) things..If they can't protect our kids - what good is it? Put the cops, hire/train vets - whatever, has to be done...If you don't support this, just adds another excuse for the Socialists to take your guns away.

 

 

 

The NRA quick short-term fix is armed guards; the Socialist short term fix is to take your guns away; Pick One!

 

 

 

...After we have police in schools (or at same time), we must address Societal Values, Mental health management, tightening up the screening process & training for gun owners (yes, I beleive in gun rights but also believe someone carrying a gun should be highly qualified/stable), and no mega-magazines (small reasonable concession - which makes sence and already in NJ - not willing to stipulate a # - feel free if you want to). Throw in no bayonet lug if it makes them happy too.

 

Ditto from person above this is (the) big fight.

[woodentoe 14]

I don't think we need to turn the schools into fortresses. If we eliminate the gun free zone and may issue ccw, this will take care of itself

 

If an educator, administrator or staff member wishes to become licensed to carry and meets the requisite requirements, they should be allowed to carry.

 

This isn't "arming the teachers" or "militarizing the schools"

 

Let the nut jobs know that if the assail a school, their targets aren't defenseless.

 

Personally I think spending taxpayer money for cops in school is foolish.

 

Let people exercise their right to self defense. Once the fantasy bubble bursts these bastards either give up or self terminate

 

I think the NRA did more harm than good with this proposal.

[PeteF 1,044]

If an educator, administrator or staff member wishes to become licensed to carry and meets the requisite requirements, they should be allowed to carry.

 

This isn't "arming the teachers" or "militarizing the schools"

 

Let the nut jobs know that if the assail a school, their targets aren't defenseless.

 

 

Exactly,

 

Total cost: $0

[vladtepes 1,060]

the problem with just "allowing teachers concealed carry" is that they are in charge of caring for YOUR kids...

 

if YOU want to carry a gun to protect yourself... you should be able to..

but the moment YOU are carrying a gun while watching my kids... there should be some kind of standard...

 

there are a ton of people I would be totally comfortable with a kid around them with a gun... but then others not so much.. that is why people are not so big on :just let teachers carry while working"

[woodentoe 14]

With all due respect, this sounds like an anti's argument.

[Combat Auto 174]

Right to self defense is a fine concept which I fully support! Applying that to 3-6 year olds in a public place is misplaced. We can't give 3-6 year olds carry permits. So this is the governments responsibilty...Using a word like "fortress" is disingenues...A cop or two is not a fortress - wish it were...Very few teaches will arm themselves - and you are back to square 1....Need the professional-protectors (in whatever form that might take) in this case...The government wasts so much dam $$$ - to deprive children of safty based on $$$ is bizzar...I think theFeds should fund it - lets get the priorities straight - he can just print it like he always does....It is good to have core values such as: Responsibility of protecting yourself; Small Gov; Min gov spending; etc. But again, there are no absoluts on this planet, and if there was ever a reason to modulate these views some, protecting inocent children in school is one of them...Print the money, Hire the Cops/professionals, protect the Kids!

[vladtepes 1,060]

With all due respect, this sounds like an anti's argument.

 

well let me make it far simpler...

 

if YOU want to supervise my kid while carrying a gun..

I am going to have to have some assurance that you know what the hell you are doing..

[woodentoe 14]

But we live in the world. If you're comfortable with ccw in a shopping ball food court, why not a school. Lots of kids in the mall too that aren't mine.

 

The argument is already being made that armed security at columbine was ineffective. The teachers and administrators are vested in defending the kids...their kids.

 

Two administrators got cut down essentially sacrificing themselves to try and protect their kids. Let them.

[High Exposure 5,664]

 

 

well let me make it far simpler...

 

if YOU want to supervise my kid while carrying a gun..

I am going to have to have some assurance that you know what the hell you are doing..

 

I agree 100%. But how often does the proof need to be given. Once in a career, 2 times a year, once a semester?

 

As we all know Shooting is a perishable skill. Tactics and mindset even more so.

 

Is good marksmanship proof enough? How do you quantify the proper "sheepdog" mindset for the person protecting your kids?

 

How do you test judgement and poise under fire?

 

Is there a weapon retention component to arming of faculty? Do we allow BUGs and knives as well? Long guns, body armor, ballistic shields?

Edited December 22, 2012 by High Exposure

[vladtepes 1,060]

But we live in the world. If you're comfortable with ccw in a shopping ball food court, why not a school. Lots of kids in the mall too that aren't mine.

 

The argument is already being made that armed security at columbine was ineffective. The teachers and administrators are vested in defending the kids...their kids.

 

Two administrators got cut down essentially sacrificing themselves to try and protect their kids. Let them.

 

because the mall is a choice.. and it is one where I would be present..

 

school is not.

[woodentoe 14]

You're making their case for them. And this can be extended anywhere. Your presence doesn't render your children immune from the irresponsibility of others.

 

I don't want you in proximity of my kids with a firearm so malls are gun free zones. I'm taking my kids to the movies and your firearm presents a hazard. Gun free zone.

[vladtepes 1,060]

You're making their case for them. And this can be extended anywhere. Your presence doesn't render your children immune from the irresponsibility of others.

 

I don't want you in proximity of my kids with a firearm so malls are gun free zones. I'm taking my kids to the movies and your firearm presents a hazard. Gun free zone.

 

again.. the MALL is a CHOICE.. one that you have the choice to go to.. further.. malls are private property.. so if you really are insecure about it.. go to a mall that does not allow guns (there are plenty out there)

 

SCHOOL is NOT a choice.....

 

the rules would be slightly different..

[SgtToadette 59]

Considering how divided we are on this issue, I think it's clear that the NRA did not do it's job in uniting gun owners and moderates. They've let us down and it couldn't have come at a worse time.

[High Exposure 5,664]

I see what Vlad is saying, and I agree with him. Requiring a standard of proficiency that must be met prior to carrying a firearm in order to be responsible for someone else's life is no where near the same thing as a "gun free zone".

 

CCW is for self-defense, operative word being self. When carrying a concealed weapon your only responsibility is to your self (and your family). If your training, skills, weapon, are lacking that's on you. If you lose a deadly force encounter because you are not up to the task the only person that pays the price is you.

 

The instant that you become responsible for more people than yourself (immediate family members excluded) there needs to be a standard to be met. Moreover, if you're being paid or compensated in any way to protect others then there needs to be measurable proof that you are up to the task.

 

 

 

 

[mipafox 438]

Vlad,

 

There are a ton of people you seem to be comfortable with. One out of 8 you meet in your county. One out 12 in The Great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania overall.

 

When you go to a grocery store or a mall with your kids you are surrounded by guns.

 

There are people carrying guns in the "Chucky Cheese" or whatever the latest children party place is.

 

Back to the schools. The people watching your children are obviously a little different. Unlike the dozens of other people carrying guns around your kids every day, all of the people in your school have had serious background checks. And all of them care deeply about your kids, and have personal, nurturing relationships with them. I would bet most of them would throw themselves in front of a muzzle to catch bullets intended for your kids. And that probably wouldn't do your kids any good, but they would still do it.

 

And ALL of them can carry anywhere. Everywhere. The grocery store, Chucky Cheese, Barmitzvas, banks, bars, The Capital Grounds, and working at Day-care centers, and childrens' birthday parties at your house or the houses of other parents.

 

They carry around your children every single day. The only place they can't carry around your children is the school.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Vlad,

 

There are a ton of people you seem to be comfortable with. One out of 8 you meet in your county. One out 12 in The Great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania overall.

 

When you go to a grocery store or a mall with your kids you are surrounded by guns.

 

There are people carrying guns in the "Chucky Cheese" or whatever the latest children party place is.

 

Back to the schools. The people watching your children are obviously a little different. Unlike the dozens of other people carrying guns around your kids every day, all of the people in your school have had serious background checks. And all of them care deeply about your kids, and have personal, nurturing relationships with them. I would bet most of them would throw themselves in front of a muzzle to catch bullets intended for your kids. And that probably wouldn't do your kids any good, but they would still do it.

 

And ALL of them can carry anywhere. Everywhere. The grocery store, Chucky Cheese, Barmitzvas, banks, bars, The Capital Grounds, and working at Day-care centers, and childrens' birthday parties at your house or the houses of other parents.

 

They carry around your children every single day. The only place they can't carry around your children is the school.

 

I take protecting my family to heart.. hell to be fair I dont even have kids... I am just using "my kids" in a discussion point... anyway.. I take the responsibility of carrying a gun VERY seriously... I practice more than I can really afford to... I am as confident as I can be that if I had to utilize a gun to protect myself or my family.. that I would do so in a safe manner where having a gun would HELP more than it would HURT.. if I am out with "my kid" I have some control over that situation.. if you deploy a gun for some reason.. I am there to react to it.. if you are watching my kid at school then you are not only taking on the responsibility of accounting for multiple children... but you are doing so while engaging a threat.. the climate is entirely different..

 

again... the issue I have is if you are going to be in control of a firearm that may potentially be used to defend someone else... someone else's kids.. multiple kids.. I just feel there should be some standard involved with that..

[Luso 6]

This is the fight of our lives. We are going to win, or we are going to lose. Right now. Not in February, Right Now.

 

Choose a side. There are two to choose from. There are no third parties in this match. We can execute them later if they fail us.

 

If we lose, it will NEVER turn back. Ever, not just for the US, but for Humanity. EVER.

 

If we win...

 

I made my decision long ago. I'm a card carrying member.

 

What I said is I don't support their stance, not their organization. I stand behind 2A and the NRA. I don't stand behind a stupid government solution and thousands of additional bloated pensions. Is every problem in a human's life now only solvable with government involvement and senseless monetary waste? Where does it end?

[johnp 45]

Can I just point out one thing I haven't seen mentioned yet, that I think is important.

 

The problem I see with a uniformed security guard/cop in school; it might not be a deterrent for a mass murderer instead it will easily identify the first victim. If you plan to kill, the armed guard in uniform sitting at a desk by the front door, is the one thing standing between you and your evil plan.

 

Will a security guard be enough of a deterrent to stop an incident or merely be an obstacle to overcome?

[67gtonut 847]

Except these evil people are not looking for the confrontation ..... They are wusses..... And as soon as they are confronted ..... They put the gun to their own head....

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk excuse the spelling

[johnp 45]

Except these evil people are not looking for the confrontation ..... They are wusses..... And as soon as they are confronted ..... They put the gun to their own head....

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk excuse the spelling

 

Yes, but they put the gun to their own head, after they have followed through with their plan, not before it even got started.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I think vlad raises an important issue that isnt getting across the right way. Why not have trained personnel? Demanding it because they are watching kids is a moot point when you simply point out that it can't be anything but beneficial. Your creating a real line of defense and not just pockets of resistance. The point isn't about a persons personal right to protection, but creating a solid counter measure. Teachers still have responsibilities during an active shooter, including keeping the kids safe and supervised. That in itself requires training. We train as a whole school once a month already. The aspect isn't about training in how to use a gun, but how to respond to all the variables of a situation. Many different situations can occur.. does a student pull a gun on you in the middle of class? in the hallways? does an intruder blast his way in? and so on.... It's not the personal protection aspect that needs training, its the school personnel's responsibilities. Your not training teachers how to sweep hallways, your giving them the tools to lock down their classroom or any room and keep the kids safe while protecting yourself... There is invaluable training and planning that can accomplish a great effectiveness with very little effort. Coordinating school and police response also creates a more solid defense, it doesn't have to be complex, but organizing a plan can eliminate unnecessary avoidable situations. The argument is about where each persons responsibilities lay, a ccw holder in a mall is responsible by choice, a ccw holder in a school is responsible by contract. I am obligated to stay in the room with the kids, i am not obligated to stay in a mall and oversee the people around me are safe...even though i would choose to.

 

The problem with this is getting them to do it... The cost would be so low it's almost negligible.

[vladtepes 1,060]

again to touch on a point I made some time back...

 

we have grown comfortable with the temporary condition of being safe... you look around the world and the rest of the world is used to turmoil... bloodshed.. attacks.. we are so used to being generally safe that when something like this happens we freak out..

 

the shooting in the school and gun rights really have nothing to do with one another... and I think Jack may be making the point more clear..

 

the problem is this..

an armed individual can gain access to a school and hurt kids...

 

the solution could be arming teachers...

but a better solution is to create a situation where them even getting IN the school is harder... a simple enough solution is to have an entry point where you have reinforced primary and secondary doors... you come in.. screened.. and then let in.. this way even if a person is let in the primary entrance.. he can not gain full entry to the school, and kids... thus not even having a shoot out..

 

I feel that "arm the teachers" is a knee jerk emotional reaction that is a similar extreme solution to "ban all scary guns"

 

sure it might have impact.. but I think there are far more logical solutions, with the emphasis on not letting them even get in to begin with..

[Qel Hoth 33]

 

the solution could be arming teachers...

but a better solution is to create a situation where them even getting IN the school is harder... a simple enough solution is to have an entry point where you have reinforced primary and secondary doors... you come in.. screened.. and then let in.. this way even if a person is let in the primary entrance.. he can not gain full entry to the school, and kids... thus not even having a shoot out..

 

I feel that "arm the teachers" is a knee jerk emotional reaction that is a similar extreme solution to "ban all scary guns"

 

sure it might have impact.. but I think there are far more logical solutions, with the emphasis on not letting them even get in to begin with..

 

While that would be a good idea, it is rather impractical for a building like a school. There must be multiple entrances to the building, or else people wouldn't be able to get out in case of a fire. Even if the primary entrance had such a feature, anyone with the will and tools to kill many children has the will and tools to force an emergency exit, or get in through a window. It would be prohibitively expensive to secure all possible entrances to a school in such a way. Also, it would only be practical for new constriction.

[MarkWVU02 47]

As Quel pointed out, schools have many points of entry/exit...securing them all would be a monumental task. The point is arming staff would be more a deterrent than something that would be used (school shootings are a rare occurrence). If we found staff willing to train (summer months) and qualify like police we'd have a viable solution.

[vladtepes 1,060]

cant emergency exits be alarmed?

 

seems simple enough to address..

[MarkWVU02 47]

cant emergency exits be alarmed?

 

seems simple enough to address..

 

They are but when you look in the case of Connecticut this guy busted a window and gained access. When I go back to school after break I should take pictures of my school to show you how impossible it really is to secure it. It's not a school built in the 50's in fact it was built in 05. There's no way to stop a madman where I work. I volunteered to spearhead a committee that looks at securing my school and it's a daunting task because no matter how many steps we take we still cannot stop someone hell bent on attacking.

[PeteF 1,044]

cant emergency exits be alarmed?

 

seems simple enough to address..

The Ct idiot came in through a window.

Every classroom in a school usually has one whole side as a bank of windows

How do you secure that much glass?

 

What does alarming a door or window do? Call 911? So you still have 2-5 minutes before police can show and try to figure out what is going on.

 

You are missing the point, a teacher ccw is responsible to protect themself.

It's an added bonus that in protecting themselve they protect the children also.

 

 

[Combat Auto 174]

I find it "funny" that if we can't have a "perfect" solution; many folks want no solution...

 

Improvement and still not perfect is a very honerable thing as a start...

 

We need the guards for now with ARs...We can't lay this totally on teachers with Carry permits - although they are welcome to help out...

 

I also find it ironic that many folks here against the Guard short term solution - make the same limited (IMHO) arguments as the Socialist/Democrat comunity.

 

Isn't it ironic that big Gov't Socialist don't want police is schools? Yes, you got it, their priority is taking your guns away rather then protecting the Kids.

 

You have two short term solutions, put the guards in (NRA/my proposal); or give up some of your Gun rights (Socialist proposal).

[Caine 147]

LaPierre is supposed to be a guest on Meet the Press this morning (10:30am - NBC)

[Combat Auto 174]

LaPierre is doing very well! Remaimber, the media is staked against him.