LAW AND PUBLIC SAFETY TO DISCUSS GUN CONTROL BILLS 2/13/13

[Kingsoverqueens 10]

I'll do it for you. What topic do you want to address? And no, pwning Footay isn't on the list.

[PDM 91]

Does anyone know the deal with the 5 round mag bill? I only see the 10 round bill listed. Are they keeping that one "in reserve"?

[Mike48 0]

Bus is the way to go......even if I have to drive 20 miles to get to a bus...I am in

 

I really like Dan's take on all the bills....

 

addendum to the powers behind this effort....everybody has to go thru the metal detectors, so if there are really 10 busloads, then plan accordingly...

Edited February 10, 2013 by Mike48

[NJ2AS News 0]

Just an FYI, bus registration is open at www.nj2as.com .

 

Let's fill the State House and show them we will not lay down in this fight!

[millsan1 3]

if a group of us wants to piece together a greater story to get accross collectively, rather than everybody going up and repeating themselves, Maybe one person each making some good points about each bill ?

 

An excellent point. They will zone out the 10th person saying the same thing.

 

Sent from my PantechP4100 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[Mike48 0]

Maybe we could start with a request to collectively address the hearings with The Pledge of Allegiance, by all of us........

 

from what I have seen in the NY Town Meetings....that seems to ground things well.

[junkmanted 54]

last week for the rally i was sending my wife to her pre op appointment by her self . The doctor canceled last minute,

And re scheduled for this Wednesday So Im out .

 

And I cant be a ass and tell her to go alone again !

 

I will look forward to hearing about the speeches later that day, and Thanks to all that can make it !!

[ChrisJM981 924]

I think the best approach is to have a master response. By this I mean have a prepared statement either supporting or opposing each bill. We can keep it near the podium, this way if they limit our individual time to speak, everything that we'd like to cover will be. We can have multiple copies and number the responses to each bill. We need to have written testimony to submit to the committee. We should also have an introductory speech mentioning the 1 million gun owners in NJ and that actions do have consequences, especially in November.

[davisac 1]

Is it still good to show up for this if I'm not planning on speaking?

 

I'm bad at public speaking and don't want to make any of us look bad.

 

 

 

ETA registered

[Vlad G 345]

Is it still good to show up for this if I'm not planning on speaking?

 

Of course, we need as many people there as possible.

[TooBigToFit 2]

I think the best approach is to have a master response. By this I mean have a prepared statement either supporting or opposing each bill. We can keep it near the podium, this way if they limit our individual time to speak, everything that we'd like to cover will be. We can have multiple copies and number the responses to each bill. We need to have written testimony to submit to the committee. We should also have an introductory speech mentioning the 1 million gun owners in NJ and that actions do have consequences, especially in November.

 

I'm actually working on a Google Docs/Drive spreadsheet right now, with a list of all the bills listed by the NJ2AS and other sources. I'll make it publicly viewable and editable, once I get the basic format and info down. That way, we can pool together arguments against each bill. Think of it as a NJ gun bill action wiki, of sorts.

 

We can also list who will speak about a certain bill, to prevent repeating of information, to allow for a more concentrated speech, and to allow more time for that speech. The biggest danger of that is if someone signs up to speak about a certain bill, and then doesn't show, it's ground uncovered.

 

I'll let all of you know more when it finishes.

[kotkot 26]

i'll give somebody a dollar to help me write a speech! lol

 

I'll try to put something together tonight at work.

 

I will write it for free. I wrote one for me, but this its too short of a notice, I can't make it.

[Chvl67 0]

I emailed my "proposed bill" commentary to the law and public safety committee members and my state legislators, along with a personal note this afternoon.

A3772 [Eustace, Timothy J./Wagner, Connie], Firearm purch. id card-picture req.

• I’m OK with the picture being on the card, which is a no brainer. I am not OK with the renewal requirement. It is a very large burden to run through the process for the initial card. Fingerprints, appointments, time off from work, etc. Why not institute a renewal via mail or online? It will still accomplish the same purpose, which is to have the NICS check completed every 5 years for existing FID holders?
  

I actually like this idea (minus the expiration)--Until I was trying to figure out how they'd enforce it, or rather give a time horizon to update the existing FID's. Essentially this is a map to invalidate EVERYONE's FID's--at which point I'm sure that we'd have to resubmit applications (and get extorted for more money to go through the background check process again--much like simply changing an address.) and schedule time to get photos taken.

Are we really naive enough to believe that if the issuing LE agencies who can't meet the current demand of NEW FID applicants within the required 30 day window, that they'd realistically be able to issue FID's to the EXISTING roughly 1million owners in NJ?

So basically everyone's FID's would become invalid, then the LE's would either take their time as they do now, and it would literally take YEARS to get everyone's FID's up to the new standard-or not at all. In the meantime, while we're waiting to get issued new "Picture FIDs", they craft even MORE legislation that somehow makes the process even more onerous.

Horrid. Simply simply horrid that our legislators could care less what anyone thinks. It continues to baffle me why people think that it's ok for legislators to be "professional politicians". If we want to get into a pissing match about "what the Founding Fathers meant", we should focus on public service NOT being a full time career choice.

[notmetoo 41]

FIDs and permits to purchase are a a clear infringement to the Second Amendment and an affront to the spirit of the founders of this nation. Increasing restrictions to these should be considered an act of treason.

[Dan 177]

I actually like this idea (minus the expiration)--Until I was trying to figure out how they'd enforce it, or rather give a time horizon to update the existing FID's. Essentially this is a map to invalidate EVERYONE's FID's--at which point I'm sure that we'd have to resubmit applications (and get extorted for more money to go through the background check process again--much like simply changing an address.) and schedule time to get photos taken.

Are we really naive enough to believe that if the issuing LE agencies who can't meet the current demand of NEW FID applicants within the required 30 day window, that they'd realistically be able to issue FID's to the EXISTING roughly 1million owners in NJ?

So basically everyone's FID's would become invalid, then the LE's would either take their time as they do now, and it would literally take YEARS to get everyone's FID's up to the new standard-or not at all. In the meantime, while we're waiting to get issued new "Picture FIDs", they craft even MORE legislation that somehow makes the process even more onerous.

Horrid. Simply simply horrid that our legislators could care less what anyone thinks. It continues to baffle me why people think that it's ok for legislators to be "professional politicians". If we want to get into a pissing match about "what the Founding Fathers meant", we should focus on public service NOT being a full time career choice.

 

Yup, what they are asking for in the renewal process is simply BS to make our lives more difficult as gun owners in NJ.

 

If what they are trying to achieve is to keep tabs on any FID holders that have lost their rights due to a felony conviction, they can easily do an automated NICS lookup every 5 years for those FID holders who have not purchased a gun in the past 5 years (since NICS is run at time of purchase anyway). I'm fine with this.

 

Unfortunately, 100% (minus the mental health check improvements <which still needs work>, and the FID record privacy bill) of what they are proposing in this decrepit pile of bills focuses more on making it more difficult to be a NJ law-abiding gun owner then to help stop gun violence.

[NJCK 5]

I am reposting what I said in another thread here as it seems to be growing relevant under this topic. Please take note that several Bills are well-intentioned, BUT they are so poorly written that they spell BAD NEWS for us!

 

Prior post:

 

Folks, we the firearms owners CANNOT leave the responsibility to fight on the NRA or the local wing, ANJRPC, or the NJ2AS... There is no possible way they can afford to fight this beast - NO WAY! Trust me; unlimited coffers do not exist from the membership and donations! Moreover, this is OUR fight - the fight of firearms-owning CITIZENS!!! By large, politicians have forgotten that government is supposed to be by the people, for the people, and many, many Americans have become complacent over too long of time and it has allowed government to run so far amuck.

 

I urge you to actually READ the proposed Bills. Really read them. You will find that many have been rushed and cobbled together that they are particularly dangerous... Scary dangerous such as Bill A3772. Note the contradictions in the sections, and the several open-ended clauses. As currently written, it could very well CANCEL every single FPID immediately if it passes! As written, full application for a new photo FPID card would then be needed. Think of that with the Bills coming up wanting a psychological evaluation before you can have an FPID, the Bill that wants 5 references for an FPID, or the Bill than wants home inspection for an FPID... Oh, how about that they intend to raise the fees for FPID, background, and permits? This could have been an effective Bill if they simply made the new photo FPID a shall-issue for current holders pending a standard SBI 212A background check - is that 'common sense' legislation in A3772? NO. Why do you think this Bill is coming ahead of the others I mentioned - it will become impossible, or at least incredibly burdensome to get an FPID when the legislation stacks... Thus, we must fight...

 

Right now, politicians are scared because all three SAFE meetings were not the anti-gun drum beating grounds expected. The Trenton rally, no matter how many people you want to say attended, was an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE larger than the antis' rally... Why else would the legislation come with effectively 3 business days’ notice to hearing??? It's an attempt to RAMROD it through the legislature! WE CANNOT LET THIS HAPPEN! Not all the Bills are bad, but there are enough for this Wednesday that are - severely so. Contemplate the effect the ammo purchase restrictions will do. I'm pretty sure A3754 is illegal under HIPPA, even though its intention is not afoul of gun owners. My point being is that the proposed Bills are RUSHED together and based upon BAD information, misunderstanding, and unfamiliarity with existing NJ Gun Control Laws and procedures under which FPID-holders must conform.

 

If these Bills do not die in the legislature, you CANNOT rely on Christie potentially vetoing them because, and I did check, the NJ State Constitution allows for him to be overridden by an overwhelming majority in the legislature... If you then argue that the lawyers will then have to fight, I am certain they will, but by the time they potentially beat it, it will be too late for the former gun owners of NJ. Hence, my argument is that WE, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LEGAL, LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS OF THIS STATE WHO LEGALLY OWN FIREARMS, MUST go to Trenton and FIGHT by providing logical, informed testimony to the legislature. The antis know this and why they attend the hearings in droves. We need to be equally represented and voice our objections that address the specifics of each Bill and not just cite 2A, not just say no more Gun Control Laws but point out the flaws and problems with each Bill from the informed perspective. You must understand the process in order to fight it.

 

I was heading to Trenton on Wednesday - totally rearranging travel I must do for work - before hearing about the free bus rides... With the additional incentive, I really hope to see many of you there to stand with me.

[njpilot 671]

FIDs and permits to purchase are a a clear infringement to the Second Amendment and an affront to the spirit of the founders of this nation. Increasing restrictions to these should be considered an act of treason.

 

Agreed.

[NJCK 5]

FIDs and permits to purchase are a a clear infringement to the Second Amendment and an affront to the spirit of the founders of this nation. Increasing restrictions to these should be considered an act of treason.

 

Can't agree more... Only problem is that the Supreme Court of the US has ruled that the States may "regulate" firearms. What we need to do in NJ is deliver clear messages that further regulation is unnecessary and will do nothing to address the real problem at hand with the so-called crisis...

[StanBo 1]

I should be able to get off for this event. I think being there Friday was well worth it.

[Jeff 13]

So, looks like it breaks down like this? I left off the two pending ones since they didn't come up on the NJ Legislature site.

 

Support:

A1613 [bramnick, Jon M./Johnson, Gordon M.], Ed. Security Task Force-estab.

A3717 [Lampitt, Pamela R./Singleton, Troy], NICS-submit cert. mental health records

A3788 [Rible, David P./Dancer, Ronald S.], Firearms records-abolish right of access

 

Oppose:

A588 [spencer, L. Grace/Coutinho, Albert+1], Ammunition, penetrate body armor-proh.

A1116 [Fuentes, Angel/Spencer, L. Grace], Handgun sales-estab. 180 day prohibition

A1329 [Greenwald, Louis D./Quijano, Annette], Ammunition magazines-reduce to 10 rounds

A1387 [Wilson, Gilbert L./Johnson, Gordon M.+11], Weapon free zones-estab. sch., pub. fac.

A3510 [Johnson, Gordon M./Vainieri Huttle, Valerie], Firearms permits and id cards-concerns

A3645 [Greenwald, Louis D./Eustace, Timothy J.], Ammunition sale-face to face transaction

A3646 [Greenwald, Louis D.], Ammunition-estab. regulatory sys.

A3659 [barnes, Peter J./Johnson, Gordon M.], Weapons, cert.-destructive definition

A3666 [Cryan, Joseph/O'Donnell, Jason+1], Ammunition sale-proh. mail order

A3668 [Jasey, Mila M./McKeon, John F.+1], Assault firearm manuf-St investment proh

A3687 [stender, Linda/Fuentes, Angel], Firearm id card-disqual. Terrorist List

A3748 [O'Donnell, Jason/Mainor, Charles], Gun sales, priv.-background check req.

A3750 [Cryan, Joseph/O'Donnell, Jason], Ammunition sales-estab reglatory prog.

A3754 [Cryan, Joseph/O'Donnell, Jason], Mental health prof warning-seize firearm

A3772 [Eustace, Timothy J./Wagner, Connie], Firearm purch. id card-picture req.

A3796 [Mainor, Charles], Firearms, unlawfully possessed-disposure

A3797 [Mainor, Charles], Firearms-concerns seized and recovered

AR143 [Quijano, Annette/Cryan, Joseph+2], Gun buyback prog.-express support

AR144 [Oliver, Sheila Y.], Mental Health Parity-concerns exemp.

[Bob B 103]

The most important thing is to be there. Numbers matter. Don't worry about what you are going to say. If you are not comfortable making an involved statement, just say "I oppose any further gun control."

 

Take a look at what recently happened in MD. I found it inspiring. They are experiencing the same thing there and they are fighting just like we are. We can do this if we all participate.

 

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