Why Homeland Security buys 1.6 bil bullets

[le_boudin 2]

Federal solicitations to buy the bullets are known as "strategic sourcing contracts," which help the government get a low price for a big purchase, says Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, Ga . The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises.

 

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/homeland-security-cache-bullets-190840538.html

 

 

training huh? with JHPs?

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Who the fugg fills these contracts? That's 1.6B rounds of ammo that we won't be able to get.

[e80hydro 120]

That's so Homeland Security, Obamas new military force that is equal to or greater than our military, can kill all the undesirables.

[Cixelsid 1]

 

 

training huh? with JHPs?

 

It's not their money, so might as well right? The taxpayers are paying for it.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Federal solicitations to buy the bullets are known as "strategic sourcing contracts," which help the government get a low price for a big purchase, says Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, Ga . The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises.

 

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/homeland-security-cache-bullets-190840538.html

 

 

training huh? with JHPs?

 

Service ammunition, yes JHPs, has been used by most Federal LE agencies for training and qualification for the past 35 years that I have personal knowledge of. State and local agencies do the same thing if they can afford it. These contracts run a period of 3-5 years or more and locks in the price for that time period.

 

We have been through this issue a bunch of times and there is no big conspiracy here.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Just an anecdote - A couple of years ago I had an opportunity to spend range time with a NJ police officer on a police-only range and observe training with a full-auto MP5. All the ammo used for the handguns and MP5's was JHP - they used the same ammo for range training/target practice as they carried for duty.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

 

 

Service ammunition, yes JHPs, has been used by most Federal LE agencies for training and qualification for the past 35 years that I have personal knowledge of. State and local agencies do the same thing if they can afford it. These contracts run a period of 3-5 years or more and locks in the price for that time period.

 

We have been through this issue a bunch of times and there is no big conspiracy here.

My issue. No one can afford to pay for jhp just to practice and qualify. State local or federal. It's just a waste. I get the idea to practice with what you will actually use, sux but that's stuff cost $$.

[bhunted 887]

Maybe there is another way to hit these bone heads below the belt. Everyone stop paying their taxes...

Take away our rights, we take away your right for taxation.

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

[BlueLineFish 615]

We train with what we carry as duty ammo. Not all that uncommon

[67gtonut 847]

I am betting at the amounts that they purchase the price between ball and JHP ammo is almost nothing.....

 

I think we need to loosen the tin foil hats....

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk excuse the spelling

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I am betting at the amounts that they purchase the price between ball and JHP ammo is almost nothing.....

 

I think we need to loosen the tin foil hats....

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk excuse the spelling

It should be relative. No? If ball ammo is cheaper then it should still be cheaper in bulk. I don't personally know....

[raz-0 1,259]

Federal solicitations to buy the bullets are known as "strategic sourcing contracts," which help the government get a low price for a big purchase, says Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, Ga . The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises.

 

 

 

http://news.yahoo.co...-190840538.html

 

 

training huh? with JHPs?

 

15 million orunds every year? Good thing they stocked up on 108,066 years worth of ammo.

[axeman_g 128]

 

 

Service ammunition, yes JHPs, has been used by most Federal LE agencies for training and qualification for the past 35 years that I have personal knowledge of. State and local agencies do the same thing if they can afford it. These contracts run a period of 3-5 years or more and locks in the price for that time period.

 

We have been through this issue a bunch of times and there is no big conspiracy here.

 

THIS. Let it go people...

 

FYI... many of those rounds are spent at the TSA Facility in AC airport. Does that make you feel worse?????

[GRIZ 3,369]

 

My issue. No one can afford to pay for jhp just to practice and qualify. State local or federal. It's just a waste. I get the idea to practice with what you will actually use, sux but that's stuff cost $$.

 

Not sure what the price is now but in 2005 when I retired we were paying about a contract price of something like 180.00/1000 for CCI Gold Dot 9mm 124gr. That's $9.00 a box of 50. This was going for $21-22 a box in a gun shop at that time. At those prices everyone could afford to qual and practice with JHP.

 

I am betting at the amounts that they purchase the price between ball and JHP ammo is almost nothing.....

 

I think we need to loosen the tin foil hats....

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk excuse the spelling

 

The last price I remember the agency paying for FMJ was WW 124gr NATO 9mm for like 120.00/1000 or $6.00 a box of 50. That contract expired in 2003 I think and had been negotiated in 1998 or 99. The CCI contract was from 2002 and I'm guessing FMJ would have been maybe $1.50 a box less than the JHP.

 

You could get the same prices if you negotiated a 1,000,000,000 round group buy. That would be plus the Federal Excise Tax, no tax for govt agencies at any level.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

It's a shame the Feds can print a ton of money and buy whatever they want at whatever price they want, but damn it, it would be nice if gun and ammo companies simply stopped supplying them and any other intransigent states with these items. Boycott the Feds, starve the beast (of its ammo)...

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Griz, thanks for the info, i guess you could say that it would be cheaper to use ball ammo, but at the price difference you observed(which is probably the same now) it is worth the difference to use duty ammo to practice. I didn't realize they got THAT big a discount. Seems like a waste, but i would rather you guys practice with what you carry.

[Bowling Ball 22]

I have a friend that is DHS, he has thousands of issued .40 JHP's in his house. They do use them for training.

 

Still though,

 

But something in me tells me that CISPA is more of a threat to liberty than gun removal. Anonymous took down the USSC website and DOJ website recently, they mention why on youtube. I think the .gov is running scared on the cyber warfare level. They want us all worried about gun rights, meanwhile they dismantle our 4th and 1st amendment rights.

 

They have said it themselves, cyber warfare is the new battlefield.

[KpdPipes 388]

Griz, thanks for the info, i guess you could say that it would be cheaper to use ball ammo, but at the price difference you observed(which is probably the same now) it is worth the difference to use duty ammo to practice. I didn't realize they got THAT big a discount. Seems like a waste, but i would rather you guys practice with what you carry.

 

There is also a Liability issue....a few years back there was an attorney who was making noise that he was going to go after a PD after an OIS because the ammo they trained with was different than the ammo they carried. I know we stopped switching in 2005 or 2006..the cost difference wasnt that much when you were buying a Pallet at a time.

[NJdiverTony 27]

At 15M bullets per year, the 1.6B bullets they're stocking up on should last a little over 106 years! I'm not a tin foil hat kind of guy, but what the heck do they need 106 years worth of ammo for?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[TulsaJohn 1]

1.6 billion rounds of ammunition in the next four or five years. It says it needs them — roughly the equivalent of five bullets for every person in the United States. Is that 5 bullets for each unarmed person? I dont like how they worded that.

[High Exposure 5,664]

At 15M bullets per year, the 1.6B bullets they're stocking up on should last a little over 106 years! I'm not a tin foil hat kind of guy, but what the heck do they need 106 years worth of ammo for?

15 million orunds every year? Good thing they stocked up on 108,066 years worth of ammo.

 

I am curious what are you guys basing your "years of ammo" figures on? That 15 Million rounds mentioned in the article was expended at training facilities such as the one mentioned in Glencoe, GA. Not every Federal Officer/Agent trains at these centers. There are multiple local and regional training and qualification centers all over the country, including one in Woodbridge NJ that is regularly used by FAMs.

 

*Edited for clarity

 

The last price I remember the agency paying for FMJ was WW 124gr NATO 9mm for like 120.00/1000 or $6.00 a box of 50. That contract expired in 2003 I think and had been negotiated in 1998 or 99. The CCI contract was from 2002 and I'm guessing FMJ would have been maybe $1.50 a box less than the JHP.

 

The state contract was just re-awarded on October of 2011 I believe. I dont have the current prices handy but it was around a 15% increase for most items.

 

There is also a Liability issue....a few years back there was an attorney who was making noise that he was going to go after a PD after an OIS because the ammo they trained with was different than the ammo they carried.

 

This^^^

 

When looked at objectively, the small increase in price in using duty ammo for all aspects of firearms training, qualifications, and carry is much cheaper than fighting a potential lawsuit based on the above lawyers assertation.

 

Also, the NJ AG's office has guidelines mandating that any ammo used for training must be ballistically similar to the ammo you carry on duty.

 

Some ammo manufactures do produce FMJ rounds specifically calibrated to mimic the ballistics of their associated duty rounds, however this ammo can be difficult to get in any useful quantitiy and the savings is minimal.

Edited February 16, 2013 by High Exposure

[Underdog 1,593]

Silence...

[raz-0 1,259]

I am curious what are you guys basing your "years of ammo" figures on? That 15 Million rounds mentioned in the article was expended at training facilities such as the one mentioned in Glencoe, GA. Not every Federal Officer/Agent trains at these centers. There are multiple local and regional training and qualification centers all over the country, including one in Woodbridge NJ that is regularly used by FAMs.

 

Because as quoted, they seemed to be stating their annual consumption for trianing was 15 million rounds, not 15 million rounds per facility.

 

The least boggling stat I heard was that they have 200,000 employees in DHS. That's still 8105 rounds per head. not all 200k are armed, and not everyone gets that much ammo to practice if you do straight up division.

 

DO I think they are planning to lay siege to the populace? No. DO I think a heck of a lot more than getting a good price is going on? Hell yeah. At the very least someone is lining someone else's pockets for some reason. Especially when you see FEMA is getting MRAP looking trucks as well that are not particularly suitable to anything fema is actually supposed to be doing.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

I have not read through this whole thread, but is the government buying up ammo to keep it away from us?

[johnnyrebel70 0]

I have not read through this whole thread, but is the government buying up ammo to keep it away from us?

 

why not read the article and thread and find out

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Your all conspiracy theorists

[Handyman 5,682]

Some sources report around 250,000 rounds spent for every insurgent killed in Iraq.

 

If Homeland Security uses the same trianing methods, they will need all that ammo to drive us all to the Gulags...