Bit the bullet - Building an AR

[bruceleeon 0]

Alright... I finally figured it out.  First, from everything I have read, it is easy to build an AR.  Also, it seems to be the best route for getting exactly what I want.  With that said, I started the process of researching some things and made two purchases.

 

1. Spikes Stripped Lower:  The reason I chose Spikes is not because of the cool looking spider or the brand recognition.  I found a good deal on a stripped lower and from what I gather, many of the lowers are made by the same company anyway... then branded.

 

2. VLTOR MUR-1A Upper:  I haven't found a bad statement about these anywhere.  While researching uppers, many are the same and I just happened to come across a site that had the MUR-1A in stock.  At that point, research ended and I impulse clicked the buy button.  Perhaps I should have done a bit more research, but eff it.

 

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There are a few other items that I have made a decision on as well. 

 

1. Palmetto State Armory LPK-GMOE: I have read nothing but raving reviews about the Geissele Super Semi Auto Trigger

2. Magpul MOE Fixed Carbine Stock: I like this option better than a Skelton.

 

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Obviously there is a lot more I need to purchase.  That is where you guys come in... suggestions?

 

[Displaced Texan 11,748]

I like BCM BCG's. They make nice barrels too...

[bhunted 887]

Could save yourself some trouble. I have an almost complete build in the marketplace.

 

 

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[bruceleeon 0]

Could save yourself some trouble. I have an almost complete build in the marketplace.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2 Pro

 

I saw that...  looks good, but I actually enjoy researching the parts and will enjoy further the experience of piecing it all together.

[bhunted 887]

Yep, but once you see how fast it goes together once parts are all had, you'll say... "Whelp! That was fun for 10 mins..."!

I can take it apart for you so you can reassemble it.... Lol...

 

Ehhhh, I may just throw a blackout on it if it don't sell.

 

 

 

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[Lalo 13]

What is the purpose of this build? Are you partial to a barrel length? Fron the looks of the parts you got, doesn't look like a budget build.

[bruceleeon 0]

No purpose...just fun

 

 

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[bruceleeon 0]

I think I decided on the Daniel Defense Modular Rail 12.0 or the Midwest Industries G2 SS 12.

 

https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems/modular-float-rail/modular-float-rail-12-0.html

 

http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=450

[5th4x4 0]

Admit it... you like to search for parts based on a sort order of "Highest Price to Lowest Price", don't you? ; )

 

Don't get me wrong; it's not like I'm envious or anything. It's just that I can't stand your guts.

 

: P

 

All kidding aside, I can't wait to see pics of this rifle once it's all tricked-out!!!

[Kimber45 3]

Yep that how it all starts......I started with a Spikes lower and a Vltor MUR upper really nice combo although I was informed by a fellow poster that my Spikes lower that due to popular belief that its not a high end lower.....strange because I haven't heard many complaints.....me thinks it came out really nice....enjoy your build brother...

[5th4x4 0]

Yep that how it all starts......I started with a Spikes lower and a Vltor MUR upper really nice combo although I was informed by a fellow poster that my Spikes lower that due to popular belief that its not a high end lower.....strange because I haven't heard many complaints.....me thinks it came out really nice....enjoy your build brother...

Yeah, I recently read a statement like that about the Spikes lower (maybe the same exact statement? I don't really remember where I read it now).

It seemed like an odd statement that was made without any expressed basis for making it though, so I remain confused as to the dig on the "popular belief" about the Spikes lower. 

If anyone can shed some light on that, I'd appreciate the knowledge. I purchased my Spikes lower due to the perceived quality that many had expressed here, and I never encountered a contradictory opinion on that at the time.

So are there two schools of thought on the Spikes lower? I'm here to learn, so I'd definitely appreciate some perspectives from both camps.

[ChrisJM981 924]

I think I decided on the Daniel Defense Modular Rail 12.0 or the Midwest Industries G2 SS 12.

 

https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems/modular-float-rail/modular-float-rail-12-0.html

 

http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=450

I'm going to recommend the Daniel Defense and here is why; I have the Midwest Industries rail. It's thin & light, but when you put rail pieces on the bottom rail you cannot get a continuous rail. There are gaps between the rail pieces, and I thought I had the issue solved by ordering the longer (4.5") rail pieces. I have the Magpul AFG2 on, and it's barely grabbing one of rail pieces.

[Displaced Texan 11,748]

Yeah, I recently read a statement like that about the Spikes lower (maybe the same exact statement? I don't really remember where I read it now).

It seemed like an odd statement that was made without any expressed basis for making it though, so I remain confused as to the dig on the "popular belief" about the Spikes lower. 

If anyone can shed some light on that, I'd appreciate the knowledge. I purchased my Spikes lower due to the perceived quality that many had expressed here, and I never encountered a contradictory opinion on that at the time.

So are there two schools of thought on the Spikes lower? I'm here to learn, so I'd definitely appreciate some perspectives from both camps.

For all practical purposes, a lower is a lower is a lower. The raw forgings only come from a few sources, and the real difference is the final machining. As long as they are machined within specifications, they are all pretty much the same (meaning forged-vs-forged. Billet is a whole different animal).

I think it's safe to say that if your Spikes lower is machined in spec, you are good to go.

[ChrisJM981 924]

For all practical purposes, a lower is a lower is a lower. The raw forgings only come from a few sources, and the real difference is the final machining. As long as they are machined within specifications, they are all pretty much the same (meaning forged-vs-forged. Billet is a whole different animal).

I think it's safe to say that if your Spikes lower is machined in spec, you are good to go.

Machined in spec just means it's within certain tolerances. I'd like to know if different brands have different acceptable limits within those tolerances for quality control purposes.

[bruceleeon 0]

Admit it... you like to search for parts based on a sort order of "Highest Price to Lowest Price", don't you? ; )

 

Don't get me wrong; it's not like I'm envious or anything. It's just that I can't stand your guts.

 

: P

 

All kidding aside, I can't wait to see pics of this rifle once it's all tricked-out!!!

I actually sort first by "in stock". As far the parts are concerned... I read before I buy. If I buy something that is more expensive than another product it is for a very specific reason. If I am going to spend my money...i am going to get what i perceive to be the best I can get for the money I am spending. I am not in a rush to put this together, so if it takes me a year to source the parts I want (based on cost and availability). I am fine with that.

 

 

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[Lalo 13]

I'm partial to a 14.5" barrel + 1.5" comp. BCM, Daniel Defense, etc makes good products. Then again I have a couple of Palmetto State Armory complete uppers that haven't failed me yet. I also like Troy so I got their Alpha and Bravo rails. The Alpha rail looks more like the ones you linked and it's less expensive.

[MidwestPX 172]

Yeah, I recently read a statement like that about the Spikes lower (maybe the same exact statement? I don't really remember where I read it now).

It seemed like an odd statement that was made without any expressed basis for making it though, so I remain confused as to the dig on the "popular belief" about the Spikes lower. 

If anyone can shed some light on that, I'd appreciate the knowledge. I purchased my Spikes lower due to the perceived quality that many had expressed here, and I never encountered a contradictory opinion on that at the time.

So are there two schools of thought on the Spikes lower? I'm here to learn, so I'd definitely appreciate some perspectives from both camps.

Spikes lowers are cut by a few machine shops.  As far as I know, they're in-spec, quality lowers.  Are they as nice as a Mega Arms or Noveske?  No.  But they also cost 30% less.  For those who care about aesthetics as well as functionality, they pay a premium for the "better" brands.  Spikes lowers are a good deal at around $100.

[Displaced Texan 11,748]

Machined in spec just means it's within certain tolerances. I'd like to know if different brands have different acceptable limits within those tolerances for quality control purposes.

 

 

The answer to your question is : yes, different brands do have different tolerance limits.

Upper and lower fits are one example of this tolerance limits. RRA is known to have tighter tolerances in this area, than say, Colt. I doubt, however, there is much tolerance difference in many other areas of the lower, as the AR platform is designed to be modular.

[High Exposure 5,664]

Yep that how it all starts......I started with a Spikes lower and a Vltor MUR upper really nice combo although I was informed by a fellow poster that my Spikes lower that due to popular belief that its not a high end lower.....strange because I haven't heard many complaints.....me thinks it came out really nice....enjoy your build brother...

  

Yeah, I recently read a statement like that about the Spikes lower (maybe the same exact statement? I don't really remember where I read it now).

It seemed like an odd statement that was made without any expressed basis for making it though, so I remain confused as to the dig on the "popular belief" about the Spikes lower. 

If anyone can shed some light on that, I'd appreciate the knowledge. I purchased my Spikes lower due to the perceived quality that many had expressed here, and I never encountered a contradictory opinion on that at the time.

So are there two schools of thought on the Spikes lower? I'm here to learn, so I'd definitely appreciate some perspectives from both camps.

I stand by my statement.

 

I know that no one likes to be told they have an ugly baby, but the fact of the matter is - Spikes Tactical lowers are not "High Quality". I wasn't commenting on if your rifle was "nice". In a thread questioning a lower's dimensions and how it mates sloppily to an upper, the observation has merit no matter if you like it or not.

 

Are they functional? Generally, but I have seen many issues with them in particular. Mis-aligned or too large trigger and hammer pin holes, cracked front takedown pin holes, crooked threads for grip screws, no threads for grip screws, cracked receiver extension threads from normal use, hammer or trigger pin holes opening up with use, bad or non durable finishes, and bad tolerances all around that lead to some pretty severe tolerance stacking when using low quality lower parts kits.

 

It is true that a relatively small number of companies make the lower forgings that most companies use. After the lowers are forged they are categorized by how close they are to the TDP specs. They are mic'd and placed into categories and priced on their quality as measured by their adherence to the TDP. Companies then buy them at costs they can afford for the numbers they want - the costs being a reflection of their "in-spec-ness". Also, being "Mil spec" and producing a rifle to the TDP is more complicated than just the materials used. It involves manufacturing process, testing protocols, finishing specs and specific assembly instructions. This all costs money as well. If you think you are getting the best quality lowers out there paying Spikes prices I have a bridge to sell you. That is not saying that you can't get a deal, but on its face - it is what it is.

 

As I said, Spikes Tactical lowers are typically functional, but they are not high quality.

 

There is no such thing as a free lunch - Loose/sloppy upper to lower fit, loose bolt catch or mag release fit, increased chance of cracked front takedown pin holes and receiver extension threads, premature wear at the trigger and hammer pins, are the price you will pay for saving money up front. They are a low price option of middling value. Depending on your intended use and firing schedule, it may serve you well and be "good enough". That still doesn't make it "High Quality".

[Kimber45 3]

Hey High Exposure ..... thanks for all your input.....didn't mean anything by my response...I would love a Noveski or Mega lower but at the time its was slim pickins. And from the input from the thread Spikes was a good choice...OK I like the spider logo...lol... I understand you can't get a Ferrari at a Chevy price... but like I said it was what was available. I did look into Aero Precision and Some other unknown brands to me and by popular demand the Spikes was gtg ......again no offense taken I built it and it shoots great my only consern was the little wiggle between the upper and lower.....does the Vltor meet with your approval .......lol just messing wit ya.....thanks for your input bro....now if I could only figure out how to post some pics......

[High Exposure 5,664]

K45, thanks for the response.

 

No worries bro. I thought you took offense to my post in the other thread - No offense was meant BTW - and just wanted to clear it up.

 

I have lowers (4 Stag lowers) in my safe that aren't my first choice either. We bought what was available when it was available for the best price we could get it. We all did. Now the trick is to know the limitations and not kid ourselves.

 

This site is very useful for the sharing of info. The info is only as good as the honesty we put into it. If we all stroke each other with BS nobody learns anything.

 

I do like the Vltor..... I wish I had a MUR.....

 

As far as pictures, host with photobucket. Upload from your computer of phone. Click the IMG link to copy and then paste it into the thread. Easy peasy! You can practice with PMs to get the hang of it.

[Kimber45 3]

No problem we can all learn alot from each other as long as we can sludge through some of the bull.....lol. just down loaded that photobucket going to play with that for a while....thanks again..

[RUTGERS95 890]

Yep that how it all starts......I started with a Spikes lower and a Vltor MUR upper really nice combo although I was informed by a fellow poster that my Spikes lower that due to popular belief that its not a high end lower.....strange because I haven't heard many complaints.....me thinks it came out really nice....enjoy your build brother...

it's the buyer mentality that is similar to group think.  There is plenty of research on value once bought and how it affects the psyche.  I own some spikes stuff and it's fine but in that grouping of manufacturers, I think you get better bang for buck by psa. 

 

look at the samson rails, they are light, strong as hell and look great

[RUTGERS95 890]

for barrels, I don't think you can find a better bang for the buck than rainier arms.  Of course I keep hoping LWRC will sell just barrels but they won't. 

 

I have or had bcm, rainier, lwrc, noveske, bushmaster, colt, alpha shooting sports, woa and arp.  lwrc is my top choice for a variety of reasons but when doing a build, I look to rainier first.  they are quality barrels that are accurate and wont' break the bank.

 

flip ups, I recommend troy only

bcg, you can go with just about anyone from bcm, colt, psa, joe bob outfitters enhanced, rainier etc....

 

what other parts are you looking at.

[voyager9 3,434]

Thanks HighEx and everyone for all the information in this thread and the other build threads. It's extremely helpful. Though now I'm rethinking against getting a Spikes lower for my build.

[MidwestPX 172]

Thanks HighEx and everyone for all the information in this thread and the other build threads. It's extremely helpful. Though now I'm rethinking against getting a Spikes lower for my build.

I've got Mega billet lowers in stock 

[High Exposure 5,664]

Mega does make a nice lower...

 

Voyager9, if you are looking to build a rifle that will see little use (under 1000 rounds a year) and the use it does see will be on manicured ranges where cottonball clouds float across an impossibly blue sky, with rivers of chocoate flowing next to trees that give beer, than a Spikes will probably serve you OK for quite a few years, assuming no defects from the get go.

 

If you do have to skimp a little bit, the lower is the place to do it. As long as you are realistic about what you want the rifle to do, don't kid yourself about what you components are capable of and avoid the "Parts is Parts" mentality you should be good to go.

[gleninjersey 2,141]

Okay, so what lowers should I consider if I want a quality build but don't want to break the bank. I'm looking to build a SHTF AR or the "GP100" of AR15s. I don't need fancy but I want dependable and practical.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Okay, so what lowers should I consider if I want a quality build but don't want to break the bank. I'm looking to build a SHTF AR or the "GP100" of AR15s. I don't need fancy but I want dependable and practical.

 

 

spikes.. aero precision.. S&W....

 

I have experience with all 3 of those and it was positive.. 

[Rob0115 1,105]

I think I decided on the Daniel Defense Modular Rail 12.0 or the Midwest Industries G2 SS 12.

 

https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems/modular-float-rail/modular-float-rail-12-0.html

 

http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=450

I have one of these for my .308 build. It's an awesome rail.