Until the citizens of NJ can do this, no hope for gun laws

[Old Dog 19]

After several years of living in a State where most of the people are pro gun, even those who do not own them, I can see the big difference between here and NJ. In NJ it does not seem that many politicians are overly concerned about gun rights. In some cases, if memory serves me correctly, both choices for office were not really pro gun. Even if going the Federal route, there is only so much that you can force NJ to do as they are a may issue State and allow people to own guns. Nothing says they cannot restrict the use and sale of guns, as we already know, and despite announcements of small victories, those of us that are (were) long time residents of NJ, know that things got much worse over time despite those small victories. In Florida, with the exception of some areas where northern liberal retire to, most politicians know that it would be an uphill battle to get elected if they are anti gun. Just look at what happened here after the bitter criticism of Florida by not only the U.S. but the world, following the Trayvon Martin shooting and Zimmerman trial. Nothing at all. That is what happens when the majority of people in a State are pro gun. Being loud and active can only take you so far. You need the numbers that translate to votes and after living in NJ since about 1975, I never got the feeling that more than a minority of people were actively pro gun. Talk about gun restrictions down here and you better be worried; very worried.

 

Below is what people can do when they have a strong pro gun base:

 

http://gunssavelives.net/anti-gun-politicians/breaking-double-breaking-both-anti-gun-senators-angela-giron-and-john-morse-recalled-in-colorado/

[Contrvlr 17]

I am elated by the results in Colorado 

 

I have no illusions that it could ever happen here in the PRNJ

[M1152 713]

If you are talking gun laws in general let’s look at the Florio AWB. It was rammed thru with a Democrat Governor and Democratic control in the State Senate and Assembly. Then on the next election cycle both the Senate and Assemble were flushed and taken over by the Republicans. Most of the Republican victors ran on overturning the AWB. So just a friendly reminder, we did on job and still got jammed.

 

The Assembly then voted for the AWB Override but the Senate did not because the Senate President Donald DiFrancesco apparently cut a deal with Florio and opted not to put it to a vote which torpedoed the entire Override effort. Fast forward to today and both house been back under Democratic control and the only thing that stopped the last barrage of useless gun bills was the Governor. Until we boot these Anti-Gun Democratic politicians look for more of the same. The Anti-Gun mentally is a large part of the Democratic platform because frankly they have nothing else to run on. IMO the only reason they are in is because NJ is overloaded with Public workers and many public workers always flock to the Democratics. As far as the Colorado recall the folks that were recalled will probably end up on MSNBC with their own TV shows. In the meantime let’s see if the law get overturned.

[ryan_j 0]

Yeah guys, just give up now because that's the best way to get more people on board with the cause. 

[ryan_j 0]

IMO the only reason they are in is because NJ is overloaded with Public workers and many public workers always flock to the Democratics. As far as the Colorado recall the folks that were recalled will probably end up on MSNBC with their own TV shows. In the meantime let’s see if the law get overturned.

 

That's only one part of it. The other part is the big cities who make up the majority of the welfare state. California has the same problem only much worse. They have 1/3 of the welfare recipients in the United States... Nothing is wrong with helping people who stumble on hard times but it's a different story when generations are dependent.

 

I don't think NJ can rally the bases quite like Colorado but we do have a few things working for us. 

 

Half of our congressional delegation is Republican.

We have a Republican governor (as bad as he is on gun issues)

We have strong 2nd amendment supporters on both sides of the aisle (mchose, carroll, van drew etc)

We have suburbs and rural areas that lean conservative.

 

Also, I believe that the bear hunt helped push Christie over the top to win over Corzine. Yes, Corzine was atrocious but he was absolutely backed by organized labor and lost. He was even backed by Obama and lost. So gun issues do play somewhat, but we have to recruit the sportsmen.

[raz-0 1,259]

That's only one part of it. The other part is the big cities who make up the majority of the welfare state. California has the same problem only much worse. They have 1/3 of the welfare recipients in the United States... Nothing is wrong with helping people who stumble on hard times but it's a different story when generations are dependent.

 

 

Yes, we are also jerrymandered to hell and back. 

[M1152 713]

That's only one part of it. The other part is the big cities who make up the majority of the welfare state. California has the same problem only much worse. They have 1/3 of the welfare recipients in the United States... Nothing is wrong with helping people who stumble on hard times but it's a different story when generations are dependent.

 

No argument there, as much as we like to I don’t think we could solve all the world problems let alone NJ problems with one post.  If you want to talk about helping people the Dems have been throwing money at Camden for decades and we see how that has worked out.

 

My reply to the OP is yes we have been trying. Hell we didn’t need a recall we voted everyone out so its not like we haven’t tried. My hat is off to everyone who called, emailed, faxed, snailmailed and carrier pigeoned their messages to the legislators and Gov on the last go around. IMO we were very lucky to get the latest bills shot down. Back in the 80’s with the Florio AWB the 2A crowds were 10x larger than what I  seen at the last hearing and we basically prevailed until Donny Boy threw us under the bus. The moral of the story is to not give up.

[Contrvlr 17]

 

Also, I believe that the bear hunt helped push Christie over the top to win over Corzine.

Kinda funny that you bring this up, yesterday I was in Avon and had the displeasure of being behind a vehicle that had a " Ban the bear hunt " sticker along with a " Right to arm bears " sticker  and a " Ban assault weapons " sticker for good measure

 

Yeah guys, just give up now because that's the best way to get more people on board with the cause. 

Have never given up, just facing reality, as gun owners we are a minority here 

[ryan_j 0]

I think we can prevail again. Reason being that the push after Sandy hook has brought light to the attack on gun rights. Not only that, but the democrats are doing it in a really underhanded manner. It's not just about the guns but it's about dirty politics. 

 

NY SAFE gets passed in the middle of the night, the Colorado bills get passed without proper public input and NJ rules get broken and senators talk in a condescending manner when they think they're off mic. Those issues get people riled up. We have to not only push gun rights but also show that the people who are against gun rights think that they're better than you. 

[ryan_j 0]

Have never given up, just facing reality, as gun owners we are a minority here 

 

How much of a minority are we though. Gun shops are sold out of ammo and some firearms. When I go to the police to pick up permits they always have a thick stack of them. And there's no space at the rifle range on the weekend, and indoor pistol ranges are usually full with a waiting list. Firearms classes are sold out, such as Nappen's gun law seminar which is booked into next year. 

 

I'm thinking our minority status is greatly exaggerated. 

 

We aren't going to get millions but we can muster up a few thousand. If we get out the vote and kick a few people out (like Sweeney) we can send a message. 

[Contrvlr 17]

How much of a minority are we though.  

Somewhere between 900K and 1mil gun owners in a population of 8 mil

[ryan_j 0]

Somewhere between 900K and 1mil gun owners in a population of 8 mil

 

That's more than 12%.

 

The population of LGBT in NJ is something around 4% and they got a same sex marriage bill passed (vetoed by CC). They are increasingly showing their clout more and more and getting things they want.

Nationally, only 11% of workers are union and they have a lot of influence in politics. They influence elections like no one else, other than probably big business. In NJ union members are around 16-17%.

 

There's really no reason that we can't mobilize and get what we want. We have numbers. We just need to complain, complain loudly and do it together. Rattle some cages if you may. 

[RUTGERS95 890]

we are not unified, that is the problem.

[bhunted 887]

we are not unified, that is the problem.

Maybe we need to start our own Teamsters Union....

Any takers for the Hoffa position?

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

[Blacksmythe 71]

We need to work on getting urban areas in involved. Speaking to people when I go to get permission to get a pistol, I find that a lot of inner city people want guns but are ashamed of wanting or discussing them. 

[bhunted 887]

We need to work on getting urban areas in involved. Speaking to people when I go to get permission to get a pistol, I find that a lot of inner city people want guns but are ashamed of wanting or discussing them.

GFH has something like that now. Ask Anthony.... Forget the name, something Coalition or....

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

[Damjan 73]

We need to work on getting urban areas in involved. Speaking to people when I go to get permission to get a pistol, I find that a lot of inner city people want guns but are ashamed of wanting or discussing them.

 

Thsi has been my experience as well. I work at the Jersey city waterfront and park across town.

The guy that owns one of the bodegas close to my parking had no idea he can actually carry in his place of business and didnt know anything about getting a gun permit.

[Old Dog 19]

Yeah guys, just give up now because that's the best way to get more people on board with the cause. 

There is a difference between giving up and realistically evaluating the odds but still fighting on. Just ask the Spartans. The other point is that if there are not enough people in the State to support the cause, getting more with the cause is still not going to produce the numbers you need.  The only thing you can do is get more republicans to move to NJ and with those taxes and corrupt officials plus proximity to NYC, that is going to be a tough cause to recruit people for.   I fought for the cause for over 20 years and the only result I saw was restricting me to buying only one handgun per month. Maybe in the next 20 years, those fighting will do better. Hope so.

[matty 810]

So says the guy that left I'll take it under advisement, mac.

There is a difference between giving up and realistically evaluating the odds but still fighting on. Just ask the Spartans. The other point is that if there are not enough people in the State to support the cause, getting more with the cause is still not going to produce the numbers you need.  The only thing you can do is get more republicans to move to NJ and with those taxes and corrupt officials plus proximity to NYC, that is going to be a tough cause to recruit people for.   I fought for the cause for over 20 years and the only result I saw was restricting me to buying only one handgun per month. Maybe in the next 20 years, those fighting will do better. Hope so.

[Michael2013 56]

If we get out the vote and kick a few people out (like Sweeney) we can send a message. 

Good point.  Go here and help: http://nikiforsenate.com/

[mark_anthony_78 0]

I absolutely hope Sweeney gets his butt kicked by Niki this year.

 

But here's the question:  If Sweeney's out, who becomes Senate President?  I thought I heard somewhere the Weinberg would be next...

[RUTGERS95 890]

MD has a movement to break the western part away

[ryan_j 0]

Good point.  Go here and help: http://nikiforsenate.com/

 

Way ahead of you. Already done. I donated to NJ2AS for the billboards as well.

 

http://nj2as.com/EVENTS?eventId=752562&EventViewMode=EventDetails

[ryan_j 0]

I absolutely hope Sweeney gets his butt kicked by Niki this year.

 

But here's the question:  If Sweeney's out, who becomes Senate President?  I thought I heard somewhere the Weinberg would be next...

 

It really doesn't matter. With regard to 2A he's basically going by the script so Weinberg won't be much worse. Christie already said that he won't sign key bills like a reduction in mag capacity. After Christie though, watch out. I feel that a hard leftist would be elected, probably as bad as or worse than Corzine. Then you can put your head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye. 

[ryan_j 0]

we are not unified, that is the problem.

 

Yes, I agree.

 

A large part of this is people who are happy enough with what we have because it really doesn't affect them. Not just hunters but people who couldn't care for things like concealed carry and repealing/relaxing the AWB. 

 

People don't realize that they're one bill away from being an overnight felon. 

[Prax 8]

I think we can prevail again. Reason being that the push after Sandy hook has brought light to the attack on gun rights. Not only that, but the democrats are doing it in a really underhanded manner. It's not just about the guns but it's about dirty politics. 

 

NY SAFE gets passed in the middle of the night, the Colorado bills get passed without proper public input and NJ rules get broken and senators talk in a condescending manner when they think they're off mic. Those issues get people riled up. We have to not only push gun rights but also show that the people who are against gun rights think that they're better than you. 

Part of me hopes that if (probably won't happen) the GOP ever takes over NJ, that they just troll the liberals by passing tons of anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage legislation.

[Bob2222 317]

How much of a minority are we though.

 

Maybe it's because we're the only minority group that can still be arrested (or worse) if we come "out of the closet" and go public en masse.

 

The "Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System" survey in 2001 reported 12.3% in New Jersey households own firearms. (My own guess is that it's actually significantly higher, but that's what the survey reported.)

 

The US Census Bureau reports 14.7% of New Jersey residents are Black or African American.

 

Gallup says that 3.7% of NJ residents identify as LGBT. http://www.gallup.com/poll/160517/lgbt-percentage-highest-lowest-north-dakota.aspx

[TooBigToFit 2]

That's more than 12%.

 

The population of LGBT in NJ is something around 4% and they got a same sex marriage bill passed (vetoed by CC). They are increasingly showing their clout more and more and getting things they want.

Nationally, only 11% of workers are union and they have a lot of influence in politics. They influence elections like no one else, other than probably big business. In NJ union members are around 16-17%.

 

There's really no reason that we can't mobilize and get what we want. We have numbers. We just need to complain, complain loudly and do it together. Rattle some cages if you may. 

 

It's not just a numbers game. There's a big difference between the firearms community and the LGBT community in terms of getting our rights: social perception and acceptance.

 

Even though the LGBT population is only around 4%, the population that supports them is big, mostly due to the fact that society views anyone that does otherwise as bigoted or not accepting of others, anti-diversity, etc. A large portion of society supports them because they've been conditioned to think it's the morally right thing to do.

 

The firearms community, on the other hand, is viewed culturally as the opposite. Viewed as people of hate, violence and destruction. Viewed as obsessive, apathetic of the plight of others. Often, racism is brought into the mix... The "stereotypical gun owner" as the media, or public, would believe, would be an OFWG/redneck, so on so forth (just look at the controversy that happened when the NRA hired Colion Noir). Often, we're not even viewed as people. Ever notice how whenever gun debate articles pop up, we're referred to as the NRA, gun lobby, or firearms special interest groups? That's because people are afraid to label us as people, afraid to force themselves to become accepting of us in the same manner as they are accepting of LGBT people in the name of diversity. So they label us as a big group without a face, a group that supports an industry, in their minds, of death. It's easier for them that way.

 

That's why, if you want anything close to CO happening in NJ, legislative action is only a tiny part of the solution. The real big goal is to change the NJ firearms culture, change the perception of all of us in the public eye. Show that shooting is a sport that transcends party, racial, and economic dividers. Show that the right to self defense and self reliance is something that we all cherish. Show that firearms are just another tool, not an instrument of death and mass destruction. It starts with education and involvement. Teach kids the safe handling of firearms, instead of teaching them that they're evil dangerous things that they should never touch. Take a friend shooting, one that's never gone before. Never be ashamed to like firearms, never hide it as some guilty pleasure, but instead, talk about it like any other hobby. Portray firearms in media as a positive thing, not an instrument of death (as much as I hate the History Channel, Top Shot would be a good start). Get the public involved in shooting sports, as any other sports.

 

That's what we should be working at.

[njpilot 671]

It really doesn't matter. With regard to 2A he's basically going by the script so Weinberg won't be much worse. Christie already said that he won't sign key bills like a reduction in mag capacity. After Christie though, watch out. I feel that a hard leftist would be elected, probably as bad as or worse than Corzine. Then you can put your head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye. 

This. That's why we gotta hope Christie gets re-elected, then use those next 4 years to get the hell out of this sewer state.

[Kaiser7 33]

The answer is simple, and we can all do it, and have fun doing it.

Take people who have never shot before to the range. One of the major differences, that I've observed, is that in many pro-gun states, even those who do not own guns have at least handled and shot a firearm.

In NJ, most of the people I know have never shot, they all want to, but don't have anyone to take them.