Hollow Point Ammo

[CommonSense 0]

Anybody aware of any action to repeal NJ's ban on the carrying of hollow point ammunition? 

[silverado427 10,812]

Carrying it where.???

[NYMetsFan86 9]

I was told its ok to have as an HD round inside your house. I have not heard or seen anything. I must ask if this question was sparked through pure curiosity or something you heard "through the grapevine"?

[RecessedFilter 222]

Not like it really matters anyway.

[CommonSense 0]

I'm talking about carrying it for defense, as a CCW permit holder.

[Smoke Eater 0]

^^u have a permit to ccw? How?? Were you gang raped by a motor cycle gang 3 times? Seriously its impossible just about i was gunna try but not worth

[CommonSense 0]

P.S.  I haven't heard any rumors; but the HP prohibition never made any sense to me whatsoever. You have the right to defend yourself and if your possession or carrying of the weapon is legal at that time and place, why should the most effective and safest ammunition be prohibited? Isn't it time for at least this part of the law to be changed?

[bzer1 15]

P.S.  I haven't heard any rumors; but the HP prohibition never made any sense to me whatsoever. You have the right to defend yourself and if your possession or carrying of the weapon is legal at that time and place, why should the most effective and safest ammunition be prohibited? Isn't it time for at least this part of the law to be changed?

I wonder how true it is that you have the right to defend yourself. I see it like this. In your own home you are expected to retreat from a threat until you are in a position that you can no longer do so. That being the case, there is no expectation that you have the right to defend yourself in your own home until it's too late. You have the ability to defend yourself, but that comes with the specter of jail time if you do not comply with what can only be described as a victim mentality. That does not equal the right, it's merely the ability. My well being and the well being of my family should not be a liability, with the potential for a prison sentence simply because some idiot statist political hack thinks I should place my safety and pretty much everything else in their "capable" hands. Until that mind set changes and people are no longer treated as though they need bureaucrats to take care of them, you will not have the right to defend yourself. 

[CommonSense 0]

Well, here's the law re: in your home:

 

http://lawofselfdefense.com/jury_instruction/nj-2c3-4c-justification-use-of-force-upon-an-intruder-n-j-s-a/

[TheMan 45]

ok but still you have a ccw?^^^

[CommonSense 0]

I'm new to the forum, and reluctant to get into my personal story. I'll just say that I have a lot of experience with firearms. Please tell me if it's not the case, but I believe that New Jersey is the only state that puts hollow point ammo in a "special" category. Again, does anybody know of any past or present grassroots efforts to get this changed? Thanks

[bzer1 15]

Well, here's the law re: in your home:

 

http://lawofselfdefense.com/jury_instruction/nj-2c3-4c-justification-use-of-force-upon-an-intruder-n-j-s-a/

Well it seems I have been educated. Thanks. I stand corrected. Here I thought this state was completely insane with this sort of thing. It seems we have managed to retain 10% of our sanity.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

The only thing that remotely resembles what you are asking is that retired LEO's weren't even allowed to carry HP's, but something in LEOSA changed and they are now allowed. One of the retired LEO's on the board can probably clarify the change or how it came about.

 

For us peons - fuggetaboutit.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[LorenzoS 100]

I think most of us are surprised by your question since there are so few with a NJ carry permit.  The rule is also different for a "civilian" carry permit vs. LEO carrying under LEOSA or active LE carrying off duty.  If you clarify your situation you will probably get a more accurate answer.

[deerpark 83]

Wait, I thought hollow point ammo was illegal to own in NJ?

 

Didnt they arrest someone for having a single round in his car?

[Duppie 73]

Wait, I thought hollow point ammo was illegal to own in NJ?

 

Didnt they arrest someone for having a single round in his car?

Oy papa....... just about.everything Firearm related in New Jersey is illegal...except under some exceptions.

Hollow point ammo, for all practical purposes has to be handled as you would a handgun,transported as such and fired as such but you can indeed buy,own and shoot it if all of the stipulations are reasonably satisfied.

[LorenzoS 100]

Wait, I thought hollow point ammo was illegal to own in NJ?

 

Didnt they arrest someone for having a single round in his car?

 

Not true.  Read this:   http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_hollow.html

 

I believe you are referring to Brian Aitken  The gotcha is that he was transporting from one residence to another, which is not one of the narrowly defined exemptions listed in the above link.

[mipafox 438]

 

Wait, I thought hollow point ammo was illegal to own in NJ?

 

Didnt they arrest someone for having a single round in his car?

 

 

I've heard of several examples, including a PA EMT responding to an accident right across the Delaware in Jersey. It did apparently happen recently to a guy in Gloucester with no other charges or indications of criminal activity according to press reports. They are illegal but there are exceptions under which you can possess them. Very similar to handguns.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

i carry flextip ammo at the shop, and at home.

[Greydaddy 2]

I believe hollow points are legal to possess and use for target and home defense, but LEO's and CCW permit holders can't use them for carry ammo.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

I believe hollow points are legal to possess and use for target and home defense, but LEO's and CCW permit holders can't use them for carry ammo.

 

LEO's most certainly can, as can retired LEO's.

[ryan_j 0]

Honestly most people really don't care about the hollow point ban because so few people have a CCW to be affected by it.

 

Now if you really want to push for something worthwhile, push to make it possible for more people to get a CCW permit. 

[ryan_j 0]

P.S.  I haven't heard any rumors; but the HP prohibition never made any sense to me whatsoever. You have the right to defend yourself and if your possession or carrying of the weapon is legal at that time and place, why should the most effective and safest ammunition be prohibited? Isn't it time for at least this part of the law to be changed?

 

No. It's really not at the top of anyone's list. 

[ryan_j 0]

LEO's most certainly can, as can retired LEO's.

 

Retired LEOs cannot carry hollow points. 

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Retired LEOs cannot carry hollow points. 

 

Yes they can. GRIZ, wanna help me out here? Something in LEOSA or the state regs was changed to specifically allow retired LEO's to carry HP's.

[ryan_j 0]

Yes they can. GRIZ, wanna help me out here? Something in LEOSA or the state regs was changed to specifically allow retired LEO's to carry HP's.

 

I believe they cannot, at least not NJ RPO permit holders (which IIRC is not the same as LEOSA). 

 

NJ RPO, no hollow points. Out of state active or retired LEO or NJ LEO under LEOSA, hollow points OK. 

 

You are referring to the LEOSA amendments in 2010 or 2011 or so where they allowed retired officers carrying under LEOSA to carry hollow points. But NJ has its own permit which I don't believe means that the officer is LEOSA qualified. But I could be wrong about this. 

 

NJSP says that hollow points are not legal for retired officers.

 

http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_ret.html

 

It should also be noted that, as civilians, retired officers cannot legally carry hollow-point ammunition or utilize high-capacity ammunition magazines (capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition) in the handgun they are carrying.

 

In any case this is a clear example of how stupid the law is. Instead of just dropping the stupid hollow point ban (which is completely dumb by any reasonable standard) the feds had to carve out an exemption for NJ retired LEO which NJ doesn't even recognize. How ass backwards is that?

[siderman 1,140]

My BIL is a just retired CO and I'm pretty sure he mentioned he cannot carry hp's anymore.

[PK90 3,573]

Federal Law trumps NJ Law in this instance because it is written that way. LEO and RLEO can carry HPs.

 

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[CommonSense 0]

I believe they cannot, at least not NJ RPO permit holders (which IIRC is not the same as LEOSA). 

 

NJ RPO, no hollow points. Out of state active or retired LEO or NJ LEO under LEOSA, hollow points OK. 

 

You are referring to the LEOSA amendments in 2010 or 2011 or so where they allowed retired officers carrying under LEOSA to carry hollow points. But NJ has its own permit which I don't believe means that the officer is LEOSA qualified. But I could be wrong about this. 

 

NJSP says that hollow points are not legal for retired officers.

 

http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_ret.html

 

It should also be noted that, as civilians, retired officers cannot legally carry hollow-point ammunition or utilize high-capacity ammunition magazines (capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition) in the handgun they are carrying.

 

In any case this is a clear example of how stupid the law is. Instead of just dropping the stupid hollow point ban (which is completely dumb by any reasonable standard) the feds had to carve out an exemption for NJ retired LEO which NJ doesn't even recognize. How ass backwards is that?

 

 

 

And see the sentence (in bold) which follows the hollow point and magazine restrictions:

 

"It should also be noted that, as civilians, retired officers cannot legally carry hollow-point ammunition or utilize high-capacity ammunition magazines (capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition) in the handgun they are carrying.

The retired law enforcement officer permit to carry a handgun law was enacted to help make our streets and communities safer."   ????

 

[redwings9 5]

 Contrary to what the NJSP  firearms branch and the State Attorney Generals office states  Federal Law via LEOSA trumps state law.   At this point the Attorney Generals office refuses to incorporate the changes made to the original act  originally known as HR 218.

 

Both the RPO web information and the information being given by the NJSP RPO section indicates that no change will be forthcoming, and if you do carry HP's as a retiree you are subject to being arrested.

 

I was also told that even if your agency provides you with the required LEOSA ID you still must obtain a NJ RPO card which is contrary to what the wording  and intent of LEOSA was designed to prevent. i.e. a hodge podge of state and local laws and requirements.

 

The Lt of the  RPO section even told me that state law trumps federal law........ No it does not........ In the absence of federal law the state laws do apply.

 

The below is copied verbatim from the National FOP legal counsel in reference to the HP issue.

 

"However, the Federal law does extend the exemption to allow the carriage of ammunition “not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act.” This means that qualified active and retired law enforcement officers may carry ammunition in States which may have prohibited the possession of certain ammunition by persons not actively serving in law enforcement within that State". 

 

Magazine restrictions still apply as the revisions did not cover this area so in the absence of a federal law the state law does apply.

 

 

Hope this is of assistance.