you folks ready? hurricane season...

[Melgamatic 66]

Most will be impossible without puncturing the tank itself(or taking the filler hose off, or pumping it out with the fuel pump)

 

This was my backup for gas last year, and it didn't work at all for me.  I would have taken the car apart if I hadn't been able to find gas within 2 hours after a few days.  Also, need to store some diesel for the truck.

[Malsua 1,422]

This was my backup for gas last year, and it didn't work at all for me.  I would have taken the car apart if I hadn't been able to find gas within 2 hours after a few days.  Also, need to store some diesel for the truck.

 

I know my dodge truck has a fuel quick release up in the engine compartment.  I could attach to that and pump it out.  

 

One thing is for sure, anyone who intends to use a vehicle fuel tank as a backup, needs to try it and figure out how to safely remove the fuel long before you ever expect to need it.

[CMJeepster 2,781]

_{I know my dodge truck has a fuel quick release up in the engine compartment.  I could attach to that and pump it out.}  

 

_{One thing is for sure, anyone who intends to use a vehicle fuel tank as a backup, needs to try it and figure out how to safely remove the fuel long before you ever expect to need it.}

 

Schrader valve on the fuel rail. 

[Malsua 1,422]

Schrader valve on the fuel rail. 

 

Yeah, but do you have a female to screw onto the Shrader valve attached to a hose that runs to a can?  Otherwise you'll end up pumping fuel all over your engine.

 

Also, most fuel systems just run for a few seconds when you turn on the key, lots of on and off there.

 

All I'm saying is that IF this is your backup fuel supply, have the knowledge and parts on hand and practice it before you need it.

[djg0770 481]

The point many are making is to evaluate your plans, and attempt your plans to ensure that you're able to actually execute prior to needing to execute.  If you find out your backup plan is not executable during a crisis, what's your plan C or D?

[mge_1 2]

Dont forget to keep an eye on your sheds. My town had a big problem with stolen gas after Sandy.

Good point...

[gunguy1960 2]

Make sure you have a serious way to lock up that generator otherwise they walk off in the middle of the night.

[T Bill 649]

Systems based on fossil fuels (diesel, gas, nat gas, propane) require some to deliver them to your area.  In a major disaster such as Sandy you have to have plans to get you to your next step.  When NY state was hit with that severe ice storm several years ago, it did not make any difference, all short terms plans were not enough. People still had to leave their homes.  Major distribution towers for electric were lost, road blocked for weeks, freezing cold weather.  Best it allowed you to do was make an orderly exit from your property to somewhere else leaving with only what you could carry in your car, if you could use the car get out. 

[mge_1 2]

Make sure you have a serious way to lock up that generator otherwise they walk off in the middle of the night.

Lucky my shed is behind my fence and both locked. Plus hopefully my CaneCorsos helps as well hehe.

[TheLugNutZ 21]

how much did the switch and installation cost you??

[Smoke Eater 0]

Nope. My generator was destroyed when a tree limb fell on it during that snow storm after sandy...

[djg0770 481]

Nope. My generator was destroyed when a tree limb fell on it during that snow storm after sandy...

 

My guns all went down with the ship on a fishing trip. 

[mge_1 2]

how much did the switch and installation cost you??

 

Mine is a low budget setup so I went with the "interlocking switch". Including generator, parts (inlet box, breaker, wires, cord) and installation.  I think around $800ish...

[Worn_Holster 2]

I put an Interlok kit on my breaker box and an outlet on the outside of my house. I really want to get a natural gas/propane adapter so the generator will run off of 3 different fuels. Natural gas service was never disrupted during Sandy. The most difficult aspect of getting natural gas to where my generator will run is that  a 3/4" pipe is needed to feed sufficient gas to run a 10hp motor. The natural gas/propane adapter only runs about $200. Keep in mind that you need to modify the ground for the generator wiring so that the common and the ground are only connected in one place at the breaker panel, not at both the the outlet of the generator and the breaker panel.

[CMJeepster 2,781]

Yeah, but do you have a female to screw onto the Shrader valve attached to a hose that runs to a can?  Otherwise you'll end up pumping fuel all over your engine.

 

Also, most fuel systems just run for a few seconds when you turn on the key, lots of on and off there.

 

All I'm saying is that IF this is your backup fuel supply, have the knowledge and parts on hand and practice it before you need it.

Not yet, but it's on the priority list this fall.  I hope to jump the fuel pump to make it run.  That is a task for after I get the US Carb kit for my generator.

[deerpark 83]

testing out my new setup this year and no more extension cords all over the house.  finally got to install my interlocking switch and exterior inlet.  as long as the gas stations do not run out of gas we should be ok hehe.

 

 

anyone else here preparing for some power outages?

 

This looks interesting, could you provide some basics about this setup for us noobs.

[mge_1 2]

This looks interesting, could you provide some basics about this setup for us noobs.

 

I used the "interlocking switch" setup.  It's nothing but a guard that only allows you to have one ON, either the main or generator breaker.  Plenty of info on google "interlocking switch" vs "transfer switch".

[Malsua 1,422]

This looks interesting, could you provide some basics about this setup for us noobs.

 

I just helped someone put one of these in.

 

You buy an interlock kit from Ebay like this:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EAT-BR200-Cutler-Hammer-Challenger-Generator-interlock-kit-150-200-Amp-BR-Panel-/221293958586?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338625d5ba%C2%A0%20except%20it

 

You need to get the right one for your panel.

 

Then buy an inlet box.  Like this:    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-30-Amp-Power-Inlet-Box-PB30/202213702

 

 

You then buy the umbilical from your generator to the inlet box.   Buy it on ebay, they have lengths from 10 feet on up.

 

You will probably have to re-arrange some breakers in your main panel since the breaker has to go at the top left or right, depending on your panel.

 

then you buy some 10ga romex and hook the inlet box recepticle to the new breaker.

 

Obviously, if you don't have space in your main panel, you can buy some duplex breakers.  Typically most boxes require that duplex breakers go in certain spots, usually the bottom half of the box so that may require even more moving around.

 

You'll be "All in" for roughly $125-$200 depending on your set up.

 

Also, if you're genset only does 20amps, get a 20amp inlet box and a 20amp two pole breaker.  You can also run 12ga romex for 20amps instead of 10ga for 30amps.

[ryan_j 0]

The point many are making is to evaluate your plans, and attempt your plans to ensure that you're able to actually execute prior to needing to execute.  If you find out your backup plan is not executable during a crisis, what's your plan C or D?

 

We can survive without electricity. 

 

I have a hand pump for the well but I usually fill the tub for sanitary water and we use bottled water anyway for drinking. 

I keep an ample supply of gasoline on hand. I also fill up the cars but only because if we have to get out of dodge I want to be able to do so without lining up for gas (if gas stations are even open.) 

For heat we have a wood stove. 

I think we're pretty much covered. 

[ryan_j 0]

I just helped someone put one of these in.

 

You buy an interlock kit from Ebay like this:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EAT-BR200-Cutler-Hammer-Challenger-Generator-interlock-kit-150-200-Amp-BR-Panel-/221293958586?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338625d5ba%C2%A0%20except%20it

 

You need to get the right one for your panel.

 

Then buy an inlet box.  Like this:    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-30-Amp-Power-Inlet-Box-PB30/202213702

 

 

You then buy the umbilical from your generator to the inlet box.   Buy it on ebay, they have lengths from 10 feet on up.

 

You will probably have to re-arrange some breakers in your main panel since the breaker has to go at the top left or right, depending on your panel.

 

then you buy some 10ga romex and hook the inlet box recepticle to the new breaker.

 

Obviously, if you don't have space in your main panel, you can buy some duplex breakers.  Typically most boxes require that duplex breakers go in certain spots, usually the bottom half of the box so that may require even more moving around.

 

You'll be "All in" for roughly $125-$200 depending on your set up.

 

Also, if you're genset only does 20amps, get a 20amp inlet box and a 20amp two pole breaker.  You can also run 12ga romex for 20amps instead of 10ga for 30amps.

 

Just make sure if you're using cheaters that you don't exceed the rating for the panel. 

 

Also if you are putting in an inlet and interlock, just put a 30A inlet in case you get a bigger generator later on. 

[mge_1 2]

I just helped someone put one of these in.

 

You buy an interlock kit from Ebay like this:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EAT-BR200-Cutler-Hammer-Challenger-Generator-interlock-kit-150-200-Amp-BR-Panel-/221293958586?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338625d5ba%C2%A0%20except%20it

 

You need to get the right one for your panel.

 

Then buy an inlet box.  Like this:    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-30-Amp-Power-Inlet-Box-PB30/202213702

 

 

You then buy the umbilical from your generator to the inlet box.   Buy it on ebay, they have lengths from 10 feet on up.

 

You will probably have to re-arrange some breakers in your main panel since the breaker has to go at the top left or right, depending on your panel.

 

then you buy some 10ga romex and hook the inlet box recepticle to the new breaker.

 

Obviously, if you don't have space in your main panel, you can buy some duplex breakers.  Typically most boxes require that duplex breakers go in certain spots, usually the bottom half of the box so that may require even more moving around.

 

You'll be "All in" for roughly $125-$200 depending on your set up.

 

Also, if you're genset only does 20amps, get a 20amp inlet box and a 20amp two pole breaker.  You can also run 12ga romex for 20amps instead of 10ga for 30amps.

Ebay and Home Depot is where I did get all the parts I needed...

[ryan_j 0]

Keep in mind that you need to modify the ground for the generator wiring so that the common and the ground are only connected in one place at the breaker panel, not at both the the outlet of the generator and the breaker panel.

 

It depends on the generator. What you are describing is called "floating neutral." Some generators already come preconfigured this way. 

[Geek 4]

I had a natural gas generator installed after Irene and the ice storm.  I figured after spending all that money nothing would happen and it would prove to have been a waste of money.  My wife certainly doubted my judgement.

 

Then we had Sandy.  I figure the generator has now paid for itself and my wife thinks I actually know what I am talking about.  :-)

[djg0770 481]

We can survive without electricity. 

 

I have a hand pump for the well but I usually fill the tub for sanitary water and we use bottled water anyway for drinking. 

I keep an ample supply of gasoline on hand. I also fill up the cars but only because if we have to get out of dodge I want to be able to do so without lining up for gas (if gas stations are even open.) 

For heat we have a wood stove. 

I think we're pretty much covered. 

 

When your gasoline runs out, your tub is empty and you have no more wood left, what's your Plan F?

Point was not about electricity, it was about thinking your contingency plans ALL THE WAY THROUGH, and testing them if possible.

[mge_1 2]

Damn did you say Plan F? Thats awesome. And here I am just setup plan B thinking I'll be ok lol...

[olderguy 0]

It depends on the generator. What you are describing is called "floating neutral." Some generators already come preconfigured this way. 

I could be wrong, but every entrance service box I have seen in NJ combines the neutral and ground at the box, so what would be wrong with combining them at the generator?

[Malsua 1,422]

Just make sure if you're using cheaters that you don't exceed the rating for the panel. 

 

Also if you are putting in an inlet and interlock, just put a 30A inlet in case you get a bigger generator later on. 

 

I know that duplex breakers are colloquially called cheates, however, many panels are designed to use these breakers.   Using a breaker "as designed" does not suggest to me that they are a "cheat".  My particular panel is 200 amps and holds up to 40 breakers....the panel I just helped with holds 20 breakers and supports 150amps.   We weren't adding any additional load to the box, just combining two full slot breakers into one duplex breaker.   I agree, if you are adding circuits, and stuff a bunch of duplex breakers in there, that's one thing.  In this instance, there are no new circuits, just an alternative feed.   Also, most boxes do have a backfeed slot, top left or right, so the manufacturers are aware that this is a possible breaker configuration.

 

I agree with the 30 amp suggestion, but I still think you should use a 20amp breaker to match a 20amp genset, even if you use a 30amp inlet and 10ga wire.  

[ryan_j 0]

I could be wrong, but every entrance service box I have seen in NJ combines the neutral and ground at the box, so what would be wrong with combining them at the generator?

 

You are correct. The service is bonded neutral to ground, per code requirement. But it should not be bonded both at the genset and your panel. Code does not allow it, and for the simple reason that generators with GFCIs will trip since it senses a ground loop (the ground is carrying current which it is not supposed to in normal operation). Why do they have GFCIs? OSHA rules.

 

So your neutral and ground should be bonded at the service entrance and the generator should be floating. 

 

There is controversy about this but for now the accepted practice is to un-bond the generator if you're using it with a transfer switch.

[ryan_j 0]

I know that duplex breakers are colloquially called cheates, however, many panels are designed to use these breakers.   Using a breaker "as designed" does not suggest to me that they are a "cheat".  My particular panel is 200 amps and holds up to 40 breakers....the panel I just helped with holds 20 breakers and supports 150amps.   We weren't adding any additional load to the box, just combining two full slot breakers into one duplex breaker.   I agree, if you are adding circuits, and stuff a bunch of duplex breakers in there, that's one thing.  In this instance, there are no new circuits, just an alternative feed.   Also, most boxes do have a backfeed slot, top left or right, so the manufacturers are aware that this is a possible breaker configuration.

 

Yes, the cheaters can physically fit - and they are fine to use - if you are not overloading the panel. Even in a panel with empty slots it's not a simple matter of slapping in breakers to the empty slots. You can't for example, fill up a 42 slot panel with 80A breakers (to use a ridiculous extreme) with 200 amp service. 

 

 

I agree with the 30 amp suggestion, but I still think you should use a 20amp breaker to match a 20amp genset, even if you use a 30amp inlet and 10ga wire.  

 

Just put a 30A breaker. Your generator has a breaker to protect itself. The breaker at the panel is to protect the wiring. 

[Malsua 1,422]

You are correct. The service is bonded neutral to ground, per code requirement. But it should not be bonded both at the genset and your panel. Code does not allow it, and for the simple reason that generators with GFCIs will trip since it senses a ground loop (the ground is carrying current which it is not supposed to in normal operation). Why do they have GFCIs? OSHA rules.

 

So your neutral and ground should be bonded at the service entrance and the generator should be floating. 

 

There is controversy about this but for now the accepted practice is to un-bond the generator if you're using it with a transfer switch.

 

If the transfer switch also switches the neutral, this is not an issue.   Unbonding the ground and the neutral varies from genset to genset, and I'm sure on some it's very difficult to do without damaging something else.(i.e. you can't get  to the wiring without ripping the generator apart or something equally painful)

 

You can't have two paths for return voltages otherwise the GFCIs will trip.  Against code I'm sure, but I'd be tempted to ground the genset outside and disconnect the ground at the inlet receptacle.  The inlet box itselt can connect to the main panel ground.  The GFCIs on the genset wouldn't work properly on a ground fault but they would still trip on a short.  This is only if you can't float the neutral on the genset.