"Nobody needs a 15-round ammunition magazine unless they are a domestic terrorist or a gangster,"

[Polak 3]

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/02/gun_control_advocates_lawmakers_say_theyll_continue_the_fight_in_the_coming_year.html

 

Gun control advocates, Jersey lawmakers set to pick up the fight in 2014

 

Darryl Isherwood/NJ.com

Feb 14, 2014 07:55 AM

Gun-control advocates and their allies in the state legislature are gearing up for another battle in 2014 in hopes of making New Jersey gun restrictions, already among the toughest in the nation, even more stringent.

 

Last year, during a tumultuous legislative session following the murder of 20 children in a Newtown, Conn. elementary school, the legislature passed 22 new pieces of gun legislation. About a dozen became law, while the balance were struck down by the governor's veto pen. Advocates for more limits on guns say important legislation was left on the table.

 

TIMELINE: 2013 was a big year for gun legislation

 

It's those measures — in particular, a restriction on ammunition magazine size, a ban on .50-caliber rifles, stricter limits on children’s access to firearms and mandatory safety training for gun owners — that will be their focus in the coming year. "Our top priority is a 10-round limit on magazine size," said Bryan Miller, executive director of Heeding God's Call, a faith-based organization focused on preventing gun violence.

"Nobody needs a 15-round ammunition magazine unless they are a domestic terrorist or a gangster," Miller said. "We expect the legislative leadership to get behind this and the governor to see some sense."

 

In last year's session, the magazine restriction never made it to the governor's desk. Instead, it was the Senate and president Steve Sweeney who stood in its way. The state currently restricts clips to 15 rounds, a limit Sweeney described last year as "effective."

 

But Miller said he is confident the Senate president is on board with the 10-round limit this time around.

 

For the families of the children of Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, the 10-round magazine has become a rallying cry.

 

"We do a lot of studying and research and we speak to gun owners and people all

over the political spectrum," advocacy director for Sandy Hook Promise whose son Daniel was among the children murdered. "We hear universally

for hunting, home protection and sport shooting that a 10 round magazine is

certainly plenty."

 

Barden said to back up the claim that the limit would save lives, you need only look to the number of shootings that are halted when the shooter stops to reload.

 

For their part, Second Amendment advocates say the magazine restriction is arbitrary and does nothing to prevent gun violence. What it does, gun advocates say, is limit only the firepower of those who follow the law.

 

"For the most part this is the same feel-good, do-nothing legislation that the New Jersey legislature is so fond of sponsoring," said Frank Fiamingo, president of the New Jersey Second Amendment Society. "As usual, the legislation targets the law-abiding gun owner who has purchased a gun legally and does not address the gangs and the career criminals who are committing the crimes."

 

Likewise the ban on .50 caliber rifles, a weapon gun advocates say is irrelevant to the discussion because it's used only by wealthy hobbyists and has never been used to commit a crime in the state.

 

Last year, Gov. Chris Christie himself advocated for its ban but later reversed course with a veto of the measure.

 

The governor hinted that the veto was punishment for Democratic overreach; however, gun-control advocates believe he also was pandering to a New Hampshire pro-guns group that urged its members to contact the Christie and warn him against signing various gun-control measures.

 

Miller said he's hoping the governor makes good on the ban this year.

 

"Both houses of the legislature and the governor himself supported the ban prior to passage and then, just to teach Democratic leaders a lesson, he vetoed it," Miller said. "Is this leadership? And who was he really talking to, the citizens of New Jersey or the right wing pro-gunners of New Hampshire."

 

Mandatory safety training was part of Sweeney's centerpiece bill, passed by both houses of the legislature last year but conditionally vetoed by the governor. The bill would have changed the way the state issues firearms licenses, made background checks instant and included private sales in the law. It also would have required proof of safety training prior to the issuance of a gun license. Training was among the elements altered by the governor's veto. After the conditional veto, Sweeney abandoned the measure.

 

"It's the most logical of the group," Miller said. "You need safety training to drive a car. Everybody who owns a gun should know how to store it and use it safely."

 

But Fiamingo said the devil is in the details. If the legislation is aimed at providing free common-sense training on gun storage and other safety factors, his group could back it. The problem, he said, is the parameters are always left out of the bill.

 

If it's true training and it's provided free, he could back it, Fiamingo said. But if it's just a financial barrier erected to make it harder to obtain a gun permit, he said, it's a non-starter.

 

Sweeney already has reintroduced the bill in the current session. Asked about specifics of this year's agenda, however, Sweeney issued only a broad comment.

 

"The governor vetoed common-sense gun-safety reforms, including legislation I sponsored that would have made New Jersey a national model on background checks," he said. "We will be examining these issues again during the new term."

 

As he was last year, Assemblyman Lou Greenwald is a strong advocate of gun-control measures, including the magazine restriction.

 

"I made a personal commitment to the families of Newtown that we would not stop fighting, no matter how long it takes until we get the magazine limit passed," Greenwald said. "In talking with the families, they will tell you, the single most important piece of legislation to stop this kind of insanity in the future is that magazine limit."

 

While gun-control supporters ask "Why not?" when it comes to the magazine-size limit, pro-gun advocates say that's the wrong question.

 

"The question is, what is the statistical evidence that shows that reducing the limit on a clip from 15 to 10 rounds will reduce gun crime?" Fiamingo said. "If this passes, are the Latin Kings or the Bloods or the Crips going to reduce their magazine capacity to 10 rounds?"

 

Despite objections from gun-rights groups, polls taken in the aftermath of Newtown showed nearly 60 percent of New Jersey residents favored stricter controls on guns, and a year later, public opinion remains on the side of gun control. And while the political climate in the state has changed significantly over the past year, it's too soon to tell if it will result in a sea change on gun control.

 

Christie, though he's fresh off a landslide reelection victory, is politically wounded. Once the frontrunner for the 2016 GOP presidential nomination, the dual scandals surrounding lane closures at the George Washington Bridge and Hurricane Sandy recovery funding in Hoboken have cast a pall — at least for now — over his viability as a national candidate. Whether that will mean he'll focus on a more Jersey-centric agenda or move more to the right remains to be seen.

 

Sweeney also faces an altered landscape. His own reelection in the 3rd Legislative District, where gun owners and sportsmen are commonplace, will no doubt allow him more freedom to navigate the issue. He has his own sights set on the governor's office, so he will likely adopt a more statewide focus on a host of issues, gun control being among the most obvious.

 

Barden and others plan to attend a press conference with the state's legislative leaders later this month in hopes of finishing what was started here last year.

 

NJ.com reporter S.P. Sullivan contributed to this report.

[Bully 749]

 

 

"Nobody needs a 15-round ammunition magazine unless they are a domestic terrorist or a gangster,"

 

Actually, they don't "need" it, but they have it. However as law abiding citizens we aren't allowed it to fight back. Complete B.S.

 

C

[n4p226r 105]

the day they ban 15 round magazines is the day i go shopping for 30 rd pmags

[Howard 538]

Tell them that nobody needs to be allowed to go to a church of their choosing and that nobody needs to be allowed to speak their mind and that nobody needs to be allowed to vote.  Screw them all.

[Vlad G 345]

They are not church people. Brian Miller latched to the "god" thing in the last few years after cease fire NJ or whatever it was before folded. Basically his is scam artist, hell I wouldn't even be shocked if he does this for the attention and to scam a paycheck from donations, instead of actually giving a crap.

[mipafox 438]

Then cops don't need 15 round mags. The chances of me facing multiple armed assailants alone in a confrontation is probably around 40% from what I have heard. Cops almost never face multiple armed assailants alone. When 3 thugs kick in my front door I don't need 15 round mags. When 10 cops respond to a drunk with a revolver of course they need 15 round mags (or 30 rounds) to be safe. Math makes no sense.

[Respect2A 0]

the day they ban 15 round magazines is the day i go shopping for 30 rd pmags

Why wait?

[antimatter 139]

its just sad, really sad. 

[Blacksmythe 71]

..........I would say unbelievable but this is NJ.

[Teky0101 6]

So I guess police, private security or our military don't need them either? Oh wait! They use 30 round magazines!!!

[JayWilling 33]

_{"As he was last year, Assemblyman Lou Greenwald is a strong advocate of gun-control measures, including the magazine restriction. "I made a personal commitment to the families of Newtown that we would not stop fighting, no matter how long it takes until we get the magazine limit passed," Greenwald said. "In talking with the families, they will tell you, the single most important piece of legislation to stop this kind of insanity in the future is that magazine limit."}

 

_{Greenwald...what an ass. The assemblyman made a promise to the families of Newtown?  What about his friggin' constituents? The people of NJ? And "in talking with the families" he determines what the "most important" legislation is? Talking to grief stricken people is how you decide?  AND (the best part) somehow restricting magazines from 15 to 10 rounds will "Stop this kind of insanity in the future". He's going to stop insanity with a magazine limit. What a douche.}

 

[ryan_j 0]

Tell them that nobody needs to be allowed to go to a church of their choosing and that nobody needs to be allowed to speak their mind and that nobody needs to be allowed to vote.  Screw them all.

 

Only pedophiles go to Catholic churches and only terrorists go to Mosques. See how easy that is?

[ryan_j 0]

_{"As he was last year, Assemblyman Lou Greenwald is a strong advocate of gun-control measures, including the magazine restriction. "I made a personal commitment to the families of Newtown that we would not stop fighting, no matter how long it takes until we get the magazine limit passed," Greenwald said. "In talking with the families, they will tell you, the single most important piece of legislation to stop this kind of insanity in the future is that magazine limit."}

 

 

_{Greenwald...what an ass. The assemblyman made a promise to the families of Newtown?  What about his friggin' constituents? The people of NJ? And "in talking with the families" he determines what the "most important" legislation is? Talking to grief stricken people is how you decide?  AND (the best part) somehow restricting magazines from 15 to 10 rounds will "Stop this kind of insanity in the future". He's going to stop insanity with a magazine limit. What a douche.}

 

 

 

Where were the voters in Greenwald's district last November? Guess what, the people who wanted to increase the minimum wage came out and voted. Gun owners stayed home. 

[mipafox 438]

_{"As he was last year, Assemblyman Lou Greenwald is a strong advocate of gun-control measures, including the magazine restriction. "I made a personal commitment to the families of Newtown that we would not stop fighting, no matter how long it takes until we get the magazine limit passed," Greenwald said. "In talking with the families, they will tell you, the single most important piece of legislation to stop this kind of insanity in the future is that magazine limit."}

 

 

_{Greenwald...what an ass. The assemblyman made a promise to the families of Newtown?  What about his friggin' constituents? The people of NJ?}

 

_{I asked the author that via email. I also asked him this:}

 

_{"For the families of the children of Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, the 10-round magazine has become a rallying cry."}

 

_{Did you speak to the families that have publicly stated they don't support gun control? I don't think they would appreciate your mischaracterization of them?}

_{Lying, slandering, unethical douchebag. Probably never even occurred to him. He should give Mark Mattioli a call and see what he has to say. Yeah, right.}

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Grrr! Them's fightin' words!

 

And why does friggin' Bryan Miller, who is not even a resident of NJ, always get a say in this?

[SgtToadette 59]

Then cops don't need 15 round mags. The chances of me facing multiple armed assailants alone in a confrontation is probably around 40% from what I have heard. Cops almost never face multiple armed assailants alone. When 3 thugs kick in my front door I don't need 15 round mags. When 10 cops respond to a drunk with a revolver of course they need 15 round mags (or 30 rounds) to be safe. Math makes no sense.

 

I think David Kopel makes the point very well:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6swSM_nqCnk#t=211

[Norseman 2]

We MUST make a sticky somewhere and start making a list of people to NOT vote for and we need to really take it upon ourselves to campaign against them hard. THEN we can become the driving force behind politics. Too many Libs sitting on their asses with time to fight these battles are hurting us while we are tired from work and not getting in the fight.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Respect2A 0]

I think David Kopel makes the point very well:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6swSM_nqCnk#t=211

 

That was one of the best videos I've seen to date explaining it. Great find.

[SgtToadette 59]

That was one of the best videos I've seen to date explaining it. Great find.

 

Even though it's stickied,I'm not sure how many people have seen the NJGF Online Resource Compendium. If you ever find something good please let me know.

[pjd832 146]

"Nobody needs a 15-round ammunition magazine unless they are a domestic terrorist or a gangster,"Actually, they don't "need" it, but they have it. However as law abiding citizens we aren't allowed it to fight back. Complete B.S.C

Actually "they" are going to have standard capacity(30 on rifles and 17-18 on pistols) or higher as they were bought illegally and they could care less about breaking a mag restriction law while in the commission of the multiple felonies they intend to with the said weapon....

[KramD52 0]

pjd832 pretty much nailed it.  Murderers could care less about restrictions or laws....they plan on committing the ultimate crime against society so how will some stupid restrictions stop them.....it hasn't before and it won't now or in the future. 

If they (the politicians) want to pass common sense legislation, as they call it, maybe they had better first find some damn common sense and not continually pick on the law abiding citizens.

 

Also, great video!  Thanks for posting SgtToadette.

[W2MC 1,699]

They are not church people. Brian Miller latched to the "god" thing in the last few years after cease fire NJ or whatever it was before folded. Basically his is scam artist, hell I wouldn't even be shocked if he does this for the attention and to scam a paycheck from donations, instead of actually giving a crap.

 

After reading this article, I was hung-up on trying to figure out if this guy Darryl Isherwood or Bryan Miller wrote the article.  Cant seem to tell where one stops and the other starts.

[Double Cheese 8]

I don’t understand Lou Greenwald’s “logic”.  He’s stated before that he wants the 10 round limit because it just may “...save one life.”  He tweeted this on Jan 24^th:

 

“.@MuttonChopsRock In Tucson, shooter tackled when reloading. Bullet #13 killed a 9 y/o girl. 10 round limit might have saved her”

 

If he’s so interested in saving “just one life”, what about the first 10 rounds?  What about people killed by the first 10 rounds?  Are they not important?  Only after 10 rounds have been fired we should start caring about people’s lives?  If we were to follow his flawed logic, we should just go to ZERO rounds because it may just save one life. 

I’d really like to see him skip the 10 round BS and just cut to the chase:

“I support the Second Amendment, but I just don’t think you should be able to have bullets.”  That’s where they’re going with this.  

[CMJeepster 2,780]

Then cops don't need 15 round mags. The chances of me facing multiple armed assailants alone in a confrontation is probably around 40% from what I have heard. Cops almost never face multiple armed assailants alone. When 3 thugs kick in my front door I don't need 15 round mags. When 10 cops respond to a drunk with a revolver of course they need 15 round mags (or 30 rounds) to be safe. Math makes no sense.

Along with multiple officers to improve their chances of settling things in their favor. I don't have that luxury when something goes bump in the night and I have to respond. The only backup that I have is 15+1 rounds of security at a time!

 

Maybe we should limit families to only 1 mini fire extiguisher? Who needs a full-sized one when the chances of having a large or multiple fires is low?

 

I have multiple extiguishers and multiple first aid kit with multiple first aid methods for different situations at the ready both at home and in vehicles in case I need them... Which I did a few years ago when I witnessed a motorcycle versus car accident in the Pine Barrens. I don't know if my equipment and training made a difference, but everyone involved lived. If applied to this topic, well...

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

I don’t understand Lou Greenwald’s “logic”.  He’s stated before that he wants the 10 round limit because it just may “...save one life.”  He tweeted this on Jan 24^th:

 

“.@MuttonChopsRock In Tucson, shooter tackled when reloading. Bullet #13 killed a 9 y/o girl. 10 round limit might have saved her”

 

If he’s so interested in saving “just one life”, what about the first 10 rounds?  What about people killed by the first 10 rounds?  Are they not important?  Only after 10 rounds have been fired we should start caring about people’s lives?  If we were to follow his flawed logic, we should just go to ZERO rounds because it may just save one life. 

I’d really like to see him skip the 10 round BS and just cut to the chase:

“I support the Second Amendment, but I just don’t think you should be able to have bullets.”  That’s where they’re going with this.

 

This is dead on correct. But don't think for a minute that they will be deterred by logic.

[GRIZ 3,369]

If you take Miller's statement at face value the military or police don't need more than 10 rds because they aren't terrorists or gangsters. I'd also like to hear from Mr Miller why going from a 15 to a 10 rd limit is the answer.

 

I am all for more education regarding firearms but can't agree making it mandatory for a Constutional Right. Would the next thing be a speech writing or public speaking course to exercise Freedom of Speech? How about a religion course before you practice the religion you choose?

 

I disagree with Mr. Fiamingo regarding "free" training run by the state. If the state runs it it is not free. What may be a $50 course at a certified trainer becomes a $250 course when the state is paying for it with tax dollars, far from "free".

[pjd832 146]

It's not really about 10 saving more lives than 15.... They aren't that stupid.....it's just they can't get what they want...so they figure it's something...closer to the real goal...0 round mags..0 firearms.....incremental

[GRIZ 3,369]

It's not really about 10 saving more lives than 15.... They aren't that stupid.....it's just they can't get what they want...so they figure it's something...closer to the real goal...0 round mags..0 firearms.....incremental

I understand that. It would be interesting if they would give reasons. Why 10? Why not 11 or 9?

[pjd832 146]

Probably because they think people won't fight it too bad since it's still double digits...and they know nj gun owners are pliable and they've been taking incrementally for many years....

[Double Cheese 8]

I actually think we should press them to advocate for a limit of 0 rounds.  Deep down, that's what they want.  Skip 10, and go right for zero. If five less rounds might save one life, then zero rounds must be better. 

 

Let them explain "I support the Second Amendment, but..."

 

Don't let them take it away incrementally.