Frustrating experience at LGS

[voyager9 3,434]

Ok, I had a frustrating experience at a gunshop today and need opinions. In case someone searches back it was not the one I posted about earlier. Anyway..

 

I am still very new to the sport and freely admit I need guidance when I comes to knowing what I'm looking at or the differences between various models and manufacturers. Perhaps my expectations were too high to get that today. I was in the market for a bolt-action 223. I had done some research but wanted to see some first hand. The shop was not too busy..steady but not mobbed. I tell the salesman what I'm looking for and he finds one on the rack and hands it over. Expecting some discourse and to prompt I ask, "do you have any experience with this one?" His reply is simply "I've been shooting for 45 years but I have no place for these," or "I don't see the point". I'm paraphrasing. He proceeds to pull down two others with again little description other than the Ruger American is cheap and the Browning Xbolt is a nice rifle. I looked at them, thanked him, then left.

 

Again, maybe my expectations were too high and my experience too low. I wanted help. I wanted someone to show the models and explain the differences. Maybe I shouldn't have expected that his weekend. Still, his attitude seemed to be bored and disinterested. He even made a comment like "ask the salesman if you don't know what you're doing" when I popped the floor (?) off the bottom of the internal mag and couldn't get it reseated.

 

We're my expectations too high?

 

The whole thing made me frustrated and also made me rethink my desire. Maybe focus on what I have and a class vs purchasing another?

 

Sorry for the long post.

 

 

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[NJGF 375]

Unfortunately you are not alone. I like to do much research online and ask questions on this forum. You will then get lots more out of the trip to the LGS.

[Vlad G 345]

LGS employee quality varies wildly. That said, you are looking at a strange market, ie: bolt action rifles. There are almost no bad ones, if you go with a rifle made by a name you recognize their are probably all about the same in quality and the differences are mostly subjective. Also, you live in NJ where there is not really any hunting with rifles so you are not going to get a lot of expertise from the LGS about them, because they simply don't move that many.

[voyager9 3,434]

Unfortunately you are not alone. I like to do much research online and ask questions on this forum. You will then get lots more out of the trip to the LGS.

I try to do as much research as I can. As with most things, finding opinions online is easy. Making sense of them is hard and I guess I was hoping a back and forth would help clarify some questions. After his "if you don't know what you're doing..." Comment I gave up on questions.

 

 

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[voyager9 3,434]

LGS employee quality varies wildly. That said, you are looking at a strange market, ie: bolt action rifles. There are almost no bad ones, if you go with a rifle made by a name you recognize their are probably all about the same in quality and the differences are mostly subjective. Also, you live in NJ where there is not really any hunting with rifles so you are not going to get a lot of expertise from the LGS about them, because they simply don't move that many.

I completely acknowledge that any gun will outshoot my ability at this point. At the same time I'd like to better understand the options and help me relate. Having a salesman who didn't even make the attempt was frustrating.

 

 

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[HBecwithFn7 296]

I completely acknowledge that any gun will outshoot my ability at this point. At the same time I'd like to better understand the options and help me relate. Having a salesman who didn't even make the attempt was frustrating.

 

 

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I'd try again on a "not so busy" day and see if you're treated the same or differently. If "the same," then you have your answer. 

[mipafox 438]

Expectations too high. You have to do your own homework.

 

BTW, he handed you a couple of real values for varmint accuracy inside a few hundred yards or so (no personal experience).

[1LtCAP 4,264]

Ok, I had a frustrating experience at a gunshop today and need opinions. In case someone searches back it was not the one I posted about earlier. Anyway..

 

I am still very new to the sport and freely admit I need guidance when I comes to knowing what I'm looking at or the differences between various models and manufacturers. Perhaps my expectations were too high to get that today. I was in the market for a bolt-action 223. I had done some research but wanted to see some first hand. The shop was not too busy..steady but not mobbed. I tell the salesman what I'm looking for and he finds one on the rack and hands it over. Expecting some discourse and to prompt I ask, "do you have any experience with this one?" His reply is simply "I've been shooting for 45 years but I have no place for these," or "I don't see the point". I'm paraphrasing. He proceeds to pull down two others with again little description other than the Ruger American is cheap and the Browning Xbolt is a nice rifle. I looked at them, thanked him, then left.

 

Again, maybe my expectations were too high and my experience too low. I wanted help. I wanted someone to show the models and explain the differences. Maybe I shouldn't have expected that his weekend. Still, his attitude seemed to be bored and disinterested. He even made a comment like "ask the salesman if you don't know what you're doing" when I popped the floor (?) off the bottom of the internal mag and couldn't get it reseated.

 

We're my expectations too high?

 

The whole thing made me frustrated and also made me rethink my desire. Maybe focus on what I have and a class vs purchasing another?

 

Sorry for the long post.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i can tell you that i first started going to bobs little sports shop during the panic after sandy hook. the place was mobbed. literally. elbow to elbow. yet having never seen me before those guys answered every single one of my questions. in detail. without rushing me. gave me advice. answered the stupid questions too. they took much more time with me than i probably deserved, as i walked out that particular night empty handed, having not even put anything on lay away. but.......the point is that the guys knew their shit. if the guy i was talking to didn't, he found out for me. they did this while the place was mobbed. they also(for what it's worth) helped me convert my mother, by making her feel VERY comfortable. they did the same for her as they did for me.

[voyager9 3,434]

Expectations too high. You have to do your own homework.

 

BTW, he handed you a couple of real values for varmint accuracy inside a few hundred yards or so (no personal experience).

Understood. And that was probably my fault for going this weekend. Still, at least homework wise it is tough to research all options and align to what they had on the rack. Other than the Ruger American, they didn't have any of the ones u had considered. I still wanted to know about them and whether they should be on my list.

 

All three may have been fantastic rifles at a steal. The salesman didn't really help communicate that at all.

 

 

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[Vlad G 345]

 Having a salesman who didn't even make the attempt was frustrating.

 

Consider the option, would you have preferred if he gave you bad advice on a topic he was not familiar with?  He admitted the what you were interested in was not his cup of joe, so odds are those guns weren't his area of expertise.  I've seen so much bad advice given in gun shops (some guns shops, not all)  that I personally wish that the people behind the counter admit they don't have the answer then just trying to make a sale. 

 

In some way you may have been blessed that he chose to not help you, his help might have been something you would have regretted later.  You have to see the silver lining in every cloud, nuclear mushroom ones included.

[voyager9 3,434]

Consider the option, would you have preferred if he gave you bad advice on a topic he was not familiar with? He admitted the what you were interested in was not his cup of joe, so odds are those guns weren't his area of expertise. I've seen so much bad advice given in gun shops (some guns shops, not all) that I personally wish that the people behind the counter admit they don't have the answer then just trying to make a sale.

 

In some way you may have been blessed that he chose to not help you, his help might have been something you would have regretted later. You have to see the silver lining in every cloud, nuclear mushroom ones included.

Valid points, thanks. Definitely wasn't looking for the used car sales routine. There's still a sweet spot between that and how he did act. That would have had me come away with a more favorable experience.

[mipafox 438]

Again, he offered you some real high quality values. The Ruger American at least. People around the world, all around the world are clamoring about it. From countries where people routinely shoot 1/4 MOA at 500 yards. Don't scoff. We are not the best shots on average here in the US. I'm not saying Ruger American is 1/4 MOA, I'm saying people in a completely different ballpark than us give it respect for the price.

[T Bill 649]

No market in NJ for bolt action rifles as we have been brainwashed into believing they can't be used in NJ (limited use anyway), So going to LGS looking for help is fruitless. That is why boards like this are so helpful.  Many different point of views.  You still need to do your homework, ask questions, evaluate the answers, and make your own decision.

 

I will tell you though, the most helpful information I got when starting out was at my home range.  Fellow members always interested in giving a helping hand.  

 

So, today you will find different levels of quality bolt action rifles based on price points.  I guess you need to find your price point and then explore the choices. On the low end I would look at Ruger or Savage. I like the Ruger American and I have a RARR in 300BLK that works great.  My other bolt actions are Rugers or WInchesters  but the Rugers are M77 Mark II from when they were sold for what Ruger Americans are today and the Winchesters are Model 70.  Perhaps keep an eye out for a good used rifle, bargains are always looking to be discovered.

[NYMetsFan86 9]

It would seem its varies based on the shop you go to. for example. Howell Gunworks will actually take the time to explain thing from personal experience. But you need to comb the web thoroughly

[voyager9 3,434]

Again, he offered you some real high quality values. The Ruger American at least. People around the world, all around the world are clamoring about it. From countries where people routinely shoot 1/4 MOA at 500 yards. Don't scoff. We are not the best shots on average here in the US. I'm not saying Ruger American is 1/4 MOA, I'm saying people in a completely different ballpark than us give it respect for the price.

Thanks. I'll be honest, of the three I saw the Ruger American seemed the most plastic. I think it was the Ranch model. It definitely had the shorter barrel.

[Kevin125 4,772]

I've found Howell Gun Works was just the opposite.  But like others said, research as much as you have time for. Ask for opinions here.  Don't expect a Red Carpet at the Gun Shop.  But I'd expect a little more than what you got at the shop you went to.  I guess they didn't have much to tell you.

 

One BA .223/5.56 I like is the Mossberg MVP.  A few variations to pick from.  Only things I didn't were the stock Mossberg 10 rnd Mag...  Got some 15 Rnd PMags.... and the Bolt is pretty sloppy when fully back.  Both issues are minor as far as I'm concerned.  But of you're shopping for a BA .223.. I'd at least check one out of you can.  Very nice stock on the one I picked up earlier this year.   It's probably at least as good a value as the Ruger in my opinion.

[Vlad G 345]

Thanks. I'll be honest, of the three I saw the Ruger American seemed the most plastic. I think it was the Ranch model. It definitely had the shorter barrel.

 

You are letting 20th century prejudice get in the way of 21th century technology

 

Plastic stock are the more accurate ones, how many wood stocked sniper rifles do you see?  Shorter barrel doesn't mean less accurate, very often it means more accurate as a shorter thicker barrel whips less which means a more consistent group size.

[voyager9 3,434]

You are letting 20th century prejudice get in the way of 21th century technology

 

. Funny, didn't I see this same post over in the Smart gun thread? /s

 

What I meant by plastic was comparing the feel of the Ruger with the Browning. Both had plastic but the Browning had rubber over plastic (or something like that). Made it seem more solid.

Thanks for the info though. I'll take another look at the RA. I will say that the all-weather model looks sharp.

[voyager9 3,434]

 

One BA .223/5.56 I like is the Mossberg MVP. A few variations to pick from.

The MVP is the model that got me looking at BA in the first place. Then I read reviews/opinions online and thought maybe other options would be better.

[bignic83 0]

Just an FYI. Don't count out the Browning. I have a 20" Browning XBolt in .308 that is a tack driver. The rubber coating is called Dura Touch and it works very well. Don't hear much about the XBolts, but they are a sweet shooting rifle.

[MedicYeti 96]

I can understand your frustration. I have found over the years that gun shops are like shoes; some simply don't fit and some serve a specific purpose. Maybe this shop isn't the comfy place to hang out in and check out a bunch of stuff. You may find another lgs where you can leasurely check out everything, maybe some of the guys who have home-based FFL's. I have found that some busier stores don't appreciate the casual looker. You may find that this specific shop will be a great option for the times you know exactly what you want and just want to go buy it.

As always, the people on this forum are full of opinions and will share anytime you ask.

Being able to shoot a gun is the best way to learn if you want it. There are plenty of people here from all over the state so some will be nearby you. Someone may be willing to take you to the range to try out their guns, bring your own ammo.

I don't have a bolt 223 yet otherwise I'd bring you out to check it out.

[voyager9 3,434]

Thanks all for your replies. It helped.

 

While researching I was looking at various options:

Mossberg Mvp

Ruger American

Savage Axis II

And at the far end, Browning XBolt.

 

I was still comparing options, especially whether I care about 556 capability since it constrained my list above to just two.

 

Then I saw this:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/savage-rifle-axis-ii-223rem-w-scope-22221.html

 

I think there is also a $50 MIB...

 

Open ended question, I know but should I jump on it?

[Displaced Texan 11,750]

Out of your choices listed above, I'd take the Savage. As much as I like the Browning, dollar for dollar, take the Savage. Put the money you save towards a good optic.

[bignic83 0]

Thanks all for your replies. It helped.

 

While researching I was looking at various options:

Mossberg Mvp

Ruger American

Savage Axis II

And at the far end, Browning XBolt.

 

I was still comparing options, especially whether I care about 556 capability since it constrained my list above to just two.

 

Then I saw this:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/savage-rifle-axis-ii-223rem-w-scope-22221.html

 

I think there is also a $50 MIB...

 

Open ended question, I know but should I jump on it?

That Savage is a great price. Hard to argue that.

[fatty 241]

I have the savage axis II XP in .223 and it's an amazing value for the low cost.  The 3-9x scope it comes with is meh, but the accu-trigger is pretty damn sweet.

 

If you're considering swinging that direction, send me a PM.  I'll sell it to you for $200.  I never shoot mine anymore (maybe 100 rounds max) and I could use the cash for xmas...  

[Blake 50]

i can tell you that i first started going to bobs little sports shop during the panic after sandy hook. the place was mobbed. literally. elbow to elbow. yet having never seen me before those guys answered every single one of my questions. in detail. without rushing me. gave me advice. answered the stupid questions too. they took much more time with me than i probably deserved, as i walked out that particular night empty handed, having not even put anything on lay away. but.......the point is that the guys knew their shit. if the guy i was talking to didn't, he found out for me. they did this while the place was mobbed. they also(for what it's worth) helped me convert my mother, by making her feel VERY comfortable. they did the same for her as they did for me.

 

In any retail shop the key is this...hiring staff that leaves an impression on customers so that they come back to the store even f you aren't the cheapest, most convenient, etc.  My family owns small businesses and I make my living in corporate retail and I try and impress this on my employees daily.