BCeagle 12 Posted December 7, 2015 2C:39-6. Exemptions...................................................e. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location. I know the law says you can have a gun at your place of business, but I am being told you need to own the place of business, which doesnt make sense. Long story short: NY resident wants to keep a handgun locked in their safe in his NJ office. Business is a corporation, half owned by him. Lease is in name of corporation and is in a large office complex. Any thoughts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted December 7, 2015 2C:39-6. Exemptions. .................................................. e. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location. I know the law says you can have a gun at your place of business, but I am being told you need to own the place of business, which doesnt make sense. Long story short: NY resident wants to keep a handgun locked in their safe in his NJ office. Business is a corporation, half owned by him. Lease is in name of corporation and is in a large office complex. Any thoughts? are you a principle in the business? Is your name on the lease as a principle for the co? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted December 7, 2015 Commercial tenants have different rights than residential tenants...in general. Commercial leases pretty much define everything, there are no assumed tenant protections in a commercial lease. The Landlord can stipulate in the use clause that the commercial lessee can't have green M&Ms on the property and the lessee is obligated to follow it. By the same token, the landlord can demand access to the business space any time he likes. This may be where the issue lies. Even if you have an alarm and maglocks, the landlord can demand access to this to respond to an emergency. I know this isn't very helpful other than to say that a commercial lessee really has very little right to the property so I would not be surprised if the business exemption to guns does not apply on a commercially leased property. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SJG 253 Posted December 7, 2015 what good is it going to do if it is locked in a safe? The fact he is a NY resident is irrelevant, the statute does not limit the exemption to NJ residents. The question is "what is his place of business" and is the non owned land "possessed by him" There is little to no case law he can consult for guidance. He should get an opinion letter from a lawyer and also check with the Chief of Police in the town the premises are located. This is NJ dude, our laws are outdated and vague. Flip a Coin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,267 Posted December 7, 2015 2C:39-6. Exemptions. .................................................. e. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location. I know the law says you can have a gun at your place of business, but I am being told you need to own the place of business, which doesnt make sense. Long story short: NY resident wants to keep a handgun locked in their safe in his NJ office. Business is a corporation, half owned by him. Lease is in name of corporation and is in a large office complex. Any thoughts? if it's leased, it's possessed by you. and i am wearing my 1911 today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted December 7, 2015 Commercial tenants have different rights than residential tenants...in general. Commercial leases pretty much define everything, there are no assumed tenant protections in a commercial lease. The Landlord can stipulate in the use clause that the commercial lessee can't have green M&Ms on the property and the lessee is obligated to follow it. By the same token, the landlord can demand access to the business space any time he likes. This may be where the issue lies. Even if you have an alarm and maglocks, the landlord can demand access to this to respond to an emergency. I know this isn't very helpful other than to say that a commercial lessee really has very little right to the property so I would not be surprised if the business exemption to guns does not apply on a commercially leased property. Dude, REALLY? If anything, business owners and real estate owners have MORE RIGHTS under the exemptions than "just normal folk" like residents. Say I own a retail store on Main St., Anytown, NJ. I pay rent to a landlord, but I own a huge piece of the bidness as one of the Partners. I can buy and bring multiple hand guns to the store, load them and so long as I keep them out of reach of the public, I can place them all over the store, even put 2 or 3 in my "cage" where I handle diamonds, precious metals and my cash box. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted December 7, 2015 Dude, REALLY? If anything, business owners and real estate owners have MORE RIGHTS under the exemptions than "just normal folk" like residents. Say I own a retail store on Main St., Anytown, NJ. I pay rent to a landlord, but I own a huge piece of the bidness as one of the Partners. I can buy and bring multiple hand guns to the store, load them and so long as I keep them out of reach of the public, I can place them all over the store, even put 2 or 3 in my "cage" where I handle diamonds, precious metals and my cash box. Yes, really. Look at a commercial lease. It's not a residential lease which has implicit privacy laws attached to it. The usage clause in a lease can allow or prohibit any number of things. I don't know the answer, but just to blurt out "IT'S LEGAL" without any case law attached is naive. This is not to say I wouldn't bring guns to my diamond business. I certainly would despite whether it fell into an exemption or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,573 Posted December 7, 2015 How many times must this subject be brought up? Once per week so far. Sent from an undisclosed location. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted December 7, 2015 Folks need to look and think BIG PICTURE when thinking about gun laws. If a lease has a no weapons clause in it, doesn't that mean that you can't even hire an off-duty Cop as a Guard? Not everybody owns a store in a Killing Field known as a MALL...........but the laws apply to EVERY business. Real Estate Brokers, Gas Stations, Doctors Offices, Deli's, even a Hot Dog Stand (in a 4-walled building, aka "fixed location"). Folks need to pull themselves and their experiences out of the answers. They need to respond directly to the questions as asked. They need to look at the entire list of exemptions and ask themselves "does the list cover the intended usage"? If yes, then apply the exemption. It's not rocket science. And when going into a contract (lease) for tens of thousands of dollars per year, one usually lets their "Legal Eagle" do a once-over prior to signing. I wouldn't sign a lease that prohibits "weapons" since as a retail bidness I need to open, pack and ship boxes. A box-cutter has been a weapon since 9-11, right? Only a complete IDIOT would sign a lease that says "no weapons allowed on premises". Every time Charlie the Cop (one of your best and nicest customers) walks-in packin' HEAT you'd be in violation of your lease. THINK............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BCeagle 12 Posted December 7, 2015 Commercial lease and doesn't mention firearms. Lease is in corporation name. You are right there really isnt much case law on this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted December 7, 2015 Commercial lease and doesn't mention firearms. Lease is in corporation name. You are right there really isnt much case law on this. That's RIGHT, there isn't! Now ask yourself WHY..........maybe it's because NO arrests have been made and maybe that's because NO ONE gets charged with having a gun at their place of bidness that they have an interest in financially. The law doesn't ask for a 100% stake in the Very Big Corporation, Inc. in order to be classified as a "business owner". LLC's, Partnerships, Sole Proprietorships, NONE of THAT terminology is mentioned in the specifics of the legalese. I wonder WHY? Maybe because most Legislators are Lawyers and Politicians and can read and understand legalese,lol? So why do Gun Owners insist on "reading into" what they read and add additional remarks, meanings, sayings, verbiage, urban myth, etc.? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackandjill 683 Posted December 7, 2015 IANAL - But GTG. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Howard 538 Posted December 7, 2015 Smokin .50 has this stuff correct, and almost always does. Read and reread what he has written. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xchange1980 0 Posted December 8, 2015 I own a Store where i buy gold,silver,electronic items etc.... been carrying my pistol on my hip(open carry) for 3 yrs now and deal with police fairly regularly and never had a problem. Ive had a few ask what kind of gun it is or most of the time nothing is said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Howard 538 Posted December 8, 2015 Just curious as to why you have decided to open carry rather than keep it hidden? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xchange1980 0 Posted December 8, 2015 Just curious as to why you have decided to open carry rather than keep it hidden? I just feel that i am in a cash business that if someone is going to try and rob me they might come in to scope me out and just maybe they will see it and discourage them. i also have my front door locked and anyone coming in must be buzzed in. just whatever precautions i can take i do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Golf battery 1,223 Posted December 8, 2015 I second that xchange. Been in the same type of business. Kept my 1911 right on the desk in full view. My one store had about 7 stores in the strip mall. Every one was held up but mine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BCeagle 12 Posted December 15, 2015 That's RIGHT, there isn't! Now ask yourself WHY..........maybe it's because NO arrests have been made and maybe that's because NO ONE gets charged with having a gun at their place of bidness that they have an interest in financially. The law doesn't ask for a 100% stake in the Very Big Corporation, Inc. in order to be classified as a "business owner". LLC's, Partnerships, Sole Proprietorships, NONE of THAT terminology is mentioned in the specifics of the legalese. I wonder WHY? Maybe because most Legislators are Lawyers and Politicians and can read and understand legalese,lol? So why do Gun Owners insist on "reading into" what they read and add additional remarks, meanings, sayings, verbiage, urban myth, etc.? I appreciate it. I think it is the overall paranoia as a gun owner in this state. I assume the worst and get surprised by anything else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted December 15, 2015 Maryland says "substantially owned by that person." I know I have seen numbers around 10-20% ownership or so from some law or case law in a nearby state, but not Jersey. It is assumed by many (but certainly not guaranteed) that this definition comes from the same place NJ would look, but who knows. I'm not even 100% sure the law covers a corp I own 100%, might just be sole proprietorship unless you own the land. I really don't know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brucin 923 Posted December 16, 2015 Ask these guys: http://fpisano.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Golf battery 1,223 Posted December 16, 2015 So. Its 1995. Im at work. The local pd calls me. (Mt holly). They say they have an informant that says theyre gonna hold up my store in the next week. I told them ok whats the plan and i have a pistol i keep in the store. So. Each morning that week i walk into work waiting for it to happen. At the end of the week they call. Again. I guess they got the guys outside. They tell me to come outside. I said im carrying Ok anyway just come outside hands up. So i did. They checked it out. Confiscated it. Of course. And a few days later i went to the mt holly pd and picked it up. Showing ownership with (my) p2p. Funny thing though. My father has the same name as me and it was his pistol. So they gave me back my fathers pistol to me. Overall. Yes ownership of of a business. Yes you can posses. Same kinda thing happened to me in ewing and trenton ive ive chased a few guys out of my my store and down the street with a firearm. Now legalize!!! This is all a fabrication. And never happened. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Golf battery 1,223 Posted December 16, 2015 Sorry double post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Golf battery 1,223 Posted December 16, 2015 Another good one is my other friends that had a store in lawrenceville that got held up. Three guys tried to hold him up. They rushed in tried to hold up the place. Took a few shots at the bullet proof glass with a nine. Then went to the door to get into the secured area. He tried to get into the door. Behind the door my friends dad had a 44 mag revolver. One shot he took Lucky shot. Brains allover. Blood. Fragments and pieces everywhere. Never got charged or arrested. It was justifiable. He was a pa resident but it was his place of business. So yes. I have seen and been through some wild stuff in my life. Thats just a few of the things ive seen. People are nuts. Thats why we need to protect ourselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted December 16, 2015 This really doesn't answer the OP's Q but some interesting stuff nonetheless. NJ, no employees, etc.: http://law.justia.com/cases/new-jersey/appellate-division-published/1973/124-n-j-super-425-0.html http://law.justia.com/cases/new-jersey/appellate-division-published/1973/124-n-j-super-425-0.html NY: http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1463&context=ulj PA: http://law.justia.com/cases/pennsylvania/supreme-court/1984/334-pa-super-459-1.html NY and DC - This one suggests owner/officer of a corp may not be covered! http://www.leagle.com/decision/1981503109Misc2d394_1440.xml/PEOPLE%20v.%20RONDON Common themes: Proprietary interest, all states tend to look at case law from similar states, and everything up in the air except employees (no go). Maybe someone else can untangle it all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Golf battery 1,223 Posted December 16, 2015 If you need to have a firearm at your business to save your life. Then do it. The local state or local govt if they want to they will screw you. Luckily it was years ago and the local pd worked with me. Unknowingly. Its a toss up. Do you feel lucky. Do you really think it will make a difference. For me i felt it would. Ive been very lucky and blessed in the the situations ive been in in my life. Also. The laws have no place in my life when its my life im fighting for. Molon lave. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
InFamous 311 Posted December 16, 2015 My brother and his wife are going through a similar thing right now too. They own the business, in their name but lease the office. It's a building with more then just their office. A lot of times she's there late at night and anyone can walk into the office without her permission so to speak. She's looking to get a handgun also. IMO it's in her full right to have one and keep one there or transport from her home to work as long as it's obtained and transported legally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,267 Posted December 16, 2015 so far, the only person that's noticed my pistol is the officer that brings me his depts cruisers to work on. he pulled up and got out as i was bending over to set the lift under another car. my shirt had ridden up off of the pistol. it didn't phase him a bit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted December 16, 2015 Wow, all my links got hosed, edited post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites