nics checks for private sales

[revenger 473]

One of the odious laws recently passes requires us to now utilize an FFL for private transfers.   Now if someone can correct me or explain it to me how this works.

I read this on Ammoland        https://www.ammoland.com/2018/08/nv-ag-laxalt-issues-statement-on-court-decision-dismissing-background-check-lawsuit/#axzz5P404zS9L  and was wondering how the FBI can allow NJ to utilize the NICS to perform these private checks. 

anyone know or am I off base here.  If the FBI said they would not do NV's background checks how can they do them here.

[cruciferous 0]

Nevada runs their own background check system, like NJ, but for whatever reason their universal background check law was written to require use of the federal system. FBI refused to let them use it since they have a state system, so there's no way to comply.

NJ's law doesn't make that same mistake.

[siderman 1,138]

Also the law is not in effect till Oct 1.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

12 minutes ago, siderman said:

Also the law is not in effect till Oct 1.

and is in my opinion unenforceable.

[siderman 1,138]

3 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

and is in my opinion unenforceable.

Well, like any law they don't need to enforce it. They just need to wait for you to break it.  I predict there will be a lot of COE's for long guns in the future with a Sept 2018 transaction date but no handgun transactions w/o a nics check (except immediate family) after Oct 1.

[Howard 538]

32 minutes ago, siderman said:

Well, like any law they don't need to enforce it. They just need to wait for you to break it.  I predict there will be a lot of COE's for long guns in the future with a Sept 2018 transaction date but no handgun transactions w/o a nics check (except immediate family) after Oct 1.

There are no handgun sales without an effective nics check in the socialist people's republic of New Jermnay.  Even for a family transfer you need a P2P which is a form of NICS check.

[siderman 1,138]

1 hour ago, Howard said:

There are no handgun sales without an effective nics check in the socialist people's republic of New Jermnay.  Even for a family transfer you need a P2P which is a form of NICS check.

Semantics. Now a private transfer is more like registration but no nics check needed at point of transfer. Even that disappears Oct 1.

[mossburger 406]

Imagine an app that you log into, click "buyer" and submit your name, DOB, SSN, etc. It goes to the NICS database, comes back with pass/fail, then generates you a, say, 12 digit PIN. Within 4/8/12/24/whatever hours, you give this pin to the other person, they log into their app, click "seller" punch in the pin you gave them, and confirm you are not an escapee from the mental hospital. Shake hands, exchange guns and money, and say have a nice day.

Completely anonymous, neither buyer nor seller need to exchange any info. Completely secure, and ensures compliance that you are not selling a firearm to a prohibited person. Allows private, NICS checked, person to person sales. 

The only reason such a modern, convenient, common sense system does not exist is because someone does not want it to.

[Sota 1,191]

@mossburgerGiven  that the mantra of "Garbage in; Garbage out" will still fully be in effect (see: Parkland, Jacksonville, et.al.) even a system such as you described (and has been bantered around for years) will still fail miserably to have any effect in solving the actual root of the problems faced.

[father-of-three 243]

I often raise this issue of quick and reliable electronic service because people often praise and have faith in their systems of choice like bank accounts and data plans, but then are quick to use false logic  to claim that criminal check systems somehow can not be as quick, speedy, and accurate as the other things they approve of.  I say what works quickly and well for one medium, works quickly and well for others, regardless of one's bias.

[mustang69 505]

22 hours ago, mossburger said:

Imagine an app that you log into, click "buyer" and submit your name, DOB, SSN, etc. It goes to the NICS database, comes back with pass/fail, then generates you a, say, 12 digit PIN. Within 4/8/12/24/whatever hours, you give this pin to the other person, they log into their app, click "seller" punch in the pin you gave them, and confirm you are not an escapee from the mental hospital. Shake hands, exchange guns and money, and say have a nice day.

Completely anonymous, neither buyer nor seller need to exchange any info. Completely secure, and ensures compliance that you are not selling a firearm to a prohibited person. Allows private, NICS checked, person to person sales. 

The only reason such a modern, convenient, common sense system does not exist is because someone does not want it to.

Maybe that was tongue in cheek, but has anyone ever seen a government-developed IT system that worked even remotely well?  Look at Obamacare enrollment or NJMVC.  The system you describe would take 12 years to build, cost a few billion$$$ and would still not work correctly.  My son could develop it in 1/2 day for a pizza and the cost of GoDaddy website registration, but get gov't involved and there would be too many hands in the cookie jar for it to ever happen.

[mossburger 406]

15 hours ago, mustang69 said:

Maybe that was tongue in cheek, but has anyone ever seen a government-developed IT system that worked even remotely well?  Look at Obamacare enrollment or NJMVC.  The system you describe would take 12 years to build, cost a few billion$$$ and would still not work correctly.  My son could develop it in 1/2 day for a pizza and the cost of GoDaddy website registration, but get gov't involved and there would be too many hands in the cookie jar for it to ever happen.

Oh don't get me wrong, I agree. A startup could have a beta version up and running in a week, maybe be ready for release in a month on a shoestring budget. Database checking, serial and tokencode authentication, etc. Are all very simple compared to what most mobile apps currently do. And yes a govt version would be a costly and unreliable disaster.

The only obstacles are not practical ones, rather they are political ones.

[10X 3,301]

15 hours ago, mustang69 said:

Maybe that was tongue in cheek, but has anyone ever seen a government-developed IT system that worked even remotely well?  

Just one of many reasons why smart gun technology is a really bad idea.

[ChrisJM981 924]

On 9/6/2018 at 9:52 AM, mossburger said:

Oh don't get me wrong, I agree. A startup could have a beta version up and running in a week, maybe be ready for release in a month on a shoestring budget. Database checking, serial and tokencode authentication, etc. Are all very simple compared to what most mobile apps currently do. And yes a govt version would be a costly and unreliable disaster.

The only obstacles are not practical ones, rather they are political ones.

The NJSP wouldn't be employing Troopers to do a NICS check, so it's the same reason the dealers have to call; blame the union. 

[1LtCAP 4,264]

On 8/24/2018 at 10:46 AM, siderman said:

Semantics. Now a private transfer is more like registration but no nics check needed at point of transfer. Even that disappears Oct 1.

and that is the only part that's enforcable. there is no way for them to catch any private sales that're done without this check, unless they're gonna start setting up stings.

[1563621 388]

On 9/10/2018 at 0:23 PM, 1LtCAP said:

and that is the only part that's enforcable. there is no way for them to catch any private sales that're done without this check, unless they're gonna start setting up stings.

Which they probably will! Get your C&R, overload them!