New Training for Carry Permits - Any Word?

[maintenanceguy 510]

I'm pretty on top of gun law stuff but I've been in the mountains for a week with no cell service.  It was a great time but I'm back in civilization and I don't know what happened with the July new training requirements for our carry permits. 

I expected this website to have exploded with information in the past week but I browsed for a while and don't see anything.

So...what happened?  Can somebody direct me to the info I need to reapply for the permit I already applied for?

Thanks.

[brucin 923]

The state is violating their own law.

[Tunaman 549]

Listen to the GunForHire Podcast.  They have already stated that the new guidelines have NOT been posted yet..

[silverado427 10,729]

Seals bud training is now going to be required for CC permits.

[dajonga 397]

I don't want to be the guy that says "I know a guy who knows a guy" but....

I work at a range & gun shop. One of our regulars is a retired Trooper. He is friends with a current Trooper who is involved with the firearms unit who says the new training rules may not be ready until August.

I probably shouldn't say this on an open forum, but I can imagine a day when I stop giving a rat's ass about gun rules from our corrupt Trenton overlords.

 

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

I encourage everyone to do as I did last week and file a complaint with the NJSP office for professional standards. Swamp them with their own paperwork. Maybe it will persuade Callahan to assign a few more officers to the FIU.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

4 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

I encourage everyone to do as I did last week and file a complaint with the NJSP office for professional standards. Swamp them with their own paperwork. Maybe it will persuade Callahan to assign a few more officers to the FIU.

Or they will claim it is potential litigation and use it as an excuse to slow things down even further...

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

10 minutes ago, Grima Squeakersen said:

Or they will claim it is potential litigation and use it as an excuse to slow things down even further...

It is a complaint that triggers an internal investigation, not litigation.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

9 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

It is a complaint that triggers an internal investigation, not litigation.

I was jumping ahead to try to anticipate how these weasel-brained mofos do what passes in for thinking in their species. If the complaintant is not satisfied that they did their investigation in compliance with the law, the next step could well be filing a lawsuit. I wouldn't put it past them to cite that contingency as an excuse for foot-dragging even before things actually came to that pass.

[xXxplosive 824]

 NJSP Qual. COF.....HQC 2 (modified).....

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

Requirements are here: https://www.nj.gov/njsp/firearms/forms.shtml

Scroll down to permit to carry

[xXxplosive 824]

HQC2 (modified)......what happens to the elderly, handicapped and the rest of us with thousands of permits issued.

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

The certification requires the instructor to sign off that "The above-named Permit to Carry applicant has successfully qualified on a course of fire substantially similar to HQC2 (modified) included in the Private Citizen Concealed Carry Use of Force Training manual, utilizing a minimum of 50 rounds and receiving a minimum score of 80%."

If a person cannot physically carry out an action such as kneeling, as an instructor, I would sign off anyway under the "substantially similar" part.

[xXxplosive 824]

3 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

The certification requires the instructor to sign off that "The above-named Permit to Carry applicant has successfully qualified on a course of fire substantially similar to HQC2 (modified) included in the Private Citizen Concealed Carry Use of Force Training manual, utilizing a minimum of 50 rounds and receiving a minimum score of 80%."

If a person cannot physically carry out an action such as kneeling, as an instructor, I would sign off anyway under the "substantially similar" part.

I believe it also states, if your statements are not accurate you can be subject to punishment........

[ALAN553 27]

If you already have permit, I assume this applies upon renewal?

[Tunaman 549]

The qual I took at GunFor Hire IS substantially similar.  My permit is good for 2 years.  I already spent more hundreds than I care to for a 2 year permit.  They can suck my ass if they want me to do more before my 2 years are up.  I am not a retired cop and i dont need to train to be one.

[xXxplosive 824]

Hmmm......remember the 10/23 date.

https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/pdf/PTC_use_of_force_and_Qual.pdf

[Alex V 99]

25 minutes ago, Tunaman said:

The qual I took at GunFor Hire IS substantially similar.  My permit is good for 2 years.  I already spent more hundreds than I care to for a 2 year permit.  They can suck my ass if they want me to do more before my 2 years are up.  I am not a retired cop and i dont need to train to be one.

That's an interesting point... A buddy of mine send me the link this morning, but there seems to be confusion on what happens to current permit holders. A portion of the proposed law stated that the new requirements had to be met by current holders within 90 days, but I am not sure if that is the in the final law, part of the injunction or part of the stay.  

If the G4H qual is "substantially similar" and I did my qual there, do we have a way of proving it seeing as how the NJSP took the originals? 

[xXxplosive 824]

so you shot at GFH holster draw, from kneeling / behind cover......and weak hand.

[Tunaman 549]

18 minutes ago, xXxplosive said:

so you shot at GFH holster draw, from kneeling / behind cover......and weak hand.

"Substantially similar" is good enough as GFH has been using this course for retired PD for years.  If it was good enough all these years then it is good enough now.  I'll wait for guidance from Anthony and my lawyer before changing anything.

[Tony 6]

I qualified under the Retired officer program already, did holster draws, off hand and reloading  and actually did the night fire as well with a welding mask on to simulate night.  Notice the new cert it says one permit is sufficient for all handguns you own.  Wonder if can just get this filled out and hand this in to local chief, though my permit was issued by the courts.

 

 

[xXxplosive 824]

34 minutes ago, Tunaman said:

"Substantially similar" is good enough as GFH has been using this course for retired PD for years.  If it was good enough all these years then it is good enough now.  I'll wait for guidance from Anthony and my lawyer before changing anything.

.......self protection isn't just for folks who can kneel behind a barrier and shoot weak hand....other states understand this.

[Alex V 99]

46 minutes ago, xXxplosive said:

.......self protection isn't just for folks who can kneel behind a barrier and shoot weak hand....other states understand this.

Other states have not been allowed to be infested by tyrants, yet.  

[oldguysrule649 397]

1 hour ago, ALAN553 said:

If you already have permit, I assume this applies upon renewal?

Do not assume that.  My understanding has been that existing permit holders have 90 days (from July 1st) to pass these newly published training and quals standards.   

[xXxplosive 824]

some have and they've rid themselves of the varmints...ie. Va.  ....omo.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

53 minutes ago, Alex V said:

Other states have not been allowed to be infested by tyrants, yet.  

would this be the wrong place to ask how we clear that infestation?

 

46 minutes ago, oldguysrule649 said:

Do not assume that.  My understanding has been that existing permit holders have 90 days (from July 1st) to pass these newly published training and quals standards.   

does this apply if we already passed those quals?

[Alex V 99]

57 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

would this be the wrong place to ask how we clear that infestation?

Not sure why my comment disappeared. Here is it again. 
 

Thomas Jefferson gave us the instructions on clearing these types in infestations on July 4 1776.

 

James Madison gave us the means to do it on December 15 1791. 

[oldguysrule649 397]

2 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

would this be the wrong place to ask how we clear that infestation?

 

does this apply if we already passed those quals?

I would hope not if the Quals you originally took are identical to what they now require.   I have not had an opportunity to read the new requirements in detail.   So do not know what additional documentation they would require and how it would need to be furnished.  At first glance they seem to also require additional training that was not part of the process originally.  E.g. classroom Use of Force and Holster Draw.  Again just my first impression.  Don't take this as gospel before confirming it for yourself.   The new docs are available on the NJSP website:  

https://www.nj.gov/njsp/firearms/forms.shtml

[oldguysrule649 397]

FYI, this document      https://www.nj.gov/njsp/firearms/pdf/PTC_use_of_force_and_Qual.pdf   lists the new qualification.  Refer to Appendix B starting on page 13.

For someone like myself that is not familiar with this ten phase HQC2 course of fire, this is going to require careful study and very focused range practice with a shot timer.   

My application was submitted months ago and my PTC has not yet been issued.  I now fear all my time, energy, money invested so far will have been for naught.

[Cheflife15 455]

Gun for hire is saying you are good if your permit was issued before 12/22/22. 

Reddit is saying it's everyone post bruen that needs to requalify and siting this.  

(2) A person who obtained a permit pursuant to this section prior to the first day of the seventh month following the date of enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.) and which permit is not scheduled to expire until at least one year following the enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.) shall comply with the training requirement established pursuant to this subsection no later than the first day of the tenth month following the date of enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.).

 

https://casetext.com/statute/new-jersey-statutes/title-2c-the-new-jersey-code-of-criminal-justice/chapter-2c58-registration-of-manufacturers-and-wholesale-dealers-of-firearms/section-2c58-4-permits-to-carry-handguns